This is gonna sound nuts, but can anyone tell me if this game has a jump button?

[ModdedNostalgia]

Don't ask why - it's just the autism. But even if it's about the beta, I gotta know. I couldn't for the life of me get into Worlds combat because of that fact - having only a roll like old Dark Souls just felt clunky.

[LonesomeSparrow]

you can jump off your mount and you can sort of jump when rolling off of ledges. that's about it.

well, I guess the closest to an actual jump would be the vault of the insect glaive

[ModdedNostalgia]

Originally posted by LonesomeSparrow:

you can jump off your mount and you can sort of jump when rolling off of ledges. that's about it.

well, I guess the closest to an actual jump would be the vault of the insect glaive

Rest in peace that sucks - Even FromSoft got the memo with Elden Ring... It's fine ig maybe someday I'll get over it lol

[RotGoblin]

Play insect glaive, get double jump.

lol

[Shift]

I see you would enjoy Rise. It doesn't have a jump button per se, but you can use the insect line things to jump around at will, anywhere.

[Scipo0419]

More games need to be like Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch. There's no jump button at first, but you can unlock it and the description is something like "it's not useful, but have fun hopping everywhere."

Edit: the description is "Allows you to jump by pressing O while running. Not very useful, but a whole lot of fun!"

[ModdedNostalgia]

Nah it ain't even like that though - it's the way jumps combo with other attacks... It just opens up another dynamic of fighting combos alongside current ground-level fighting dynamics, which just feels more exciting and fluid - and that's not including the addition of player-controlled verticality when traversing the map.

Idk going from Elden Ring to Monster Hunter Worlds was like going back in time a whole decade in terms of feeling fluid in gameplay for me - I just can't put my thumb on the feeling, but I was just hoping that this entry would be the break-in point for me. I'll just have to wait for now - if it ain't got a jump button, it ain't for me. I may be picky, but that's just how it is lol.

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by ModdedNostalgia:

Nah it ain't even like that though - it's the way jumps combo with other attacks... It just opens up another dynamic of fighting combos alongside current ground-level fighting dynamics, which just feels more exciting and fluid - and that's not including the addition of player-controlled verticality when traversing the map.

Idk going from Elden Ring to Monster Hunter Worlds was like going back in time a whole decade in terms of feeling fluid in gameplay for me - I just can't put my thumb on the feeling, but I was just hoping that this entry would be the break-in point for me. I'll just have to wait for now - if it ain't got a jump button, it ain't for me. I may be picky, but that's just how it is lol.

I admit, I haven't played Elden Ring as I'm a **massive** Souls-like hater, but 90% of games that aren't Fighting-Games that have jump attacks rarely work seamlessly with the ground combos.

Off the top of my head I can think of Ys VIII where you can launch enemies into the air and follow up with aerial attacks and can combo them back into the ground, but that's "flashy over the top anime combat" and doesn't work in the more grounded World/Wilds style.

[ModdedNostalgia]

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

I admit, I haven't played Elden Ring as I'm a **massive** Souls-like hater, but 90% of games that aren't Fighting-Games that have jump attacks rarely work seamlessly with the ground combos.

Ay Elden Ring ain't even Souls-Like IMO - it stepped out of that realm by going open-world. Yeah it's hard af, but it ain't linear at ALL and easily exploitable in that regard; it's damn easy to power-level if you really want to and wreck everything in your path, but that's entirely your choice lol. I'd really just call it a one-difficulty-mode action RPG really.

What I mean is losing runes isn't like losing souls in the old games. If you lose runes, it's annoying, but you can just teleport to a rune farm and gain that crap back. Dark Souls on the other hand was extremely punishing for dying - losing souls hurt like a real one.

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by ModdedNostalgia:

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

I admit, I haven't played Elden Ring as I'm a **massive** Souls-like hater, but 90% of games that aren't Fighting-Games that have jump attacks rarely work seamlessly with the ground combos.

Ay Elden Ring ain't even Souls-Like IMO - it stepped out of that realm by going open-world. Yeah it's hard af, but it ain't linear at ALL and easily exploitable in that regard; it's damn easy to power-level if you really want to and wreck everything in your path, but that's entirely your choice lol. I'd really just call it a one-difficulty-mode action RPG really.

What I mean is losing runes isn't like losing souls in the old games. If you lose runes, it's annoying, but you can just teleport to a rune farm and gain that crap back. Dark Souls on the other hand was extremely punishing for dying - losing souls hurt like a real one.

My main issue with Souls-like isn't the linearity (I actually prefer that) or how the combat works (mostly. I'll get to that.) it's the artificial difficulty. They're not actually difficult games, they're just designed to be incredibly frustrating and to punish you for not "getting it." like you're the butt of a joke because you didn't get the memo.

They have enemies in locations that you deliberately cannot possibly know they're in to jump out and hit you, usually near a ledge that will knock you into a previous area that takes a few minutes to get back to, or off into the void killing you instantly. Now that you know it's there, it will never get you again, it's just there to punish you because you didn't know it was there. You can't react to it, you can't predict it, you just have to spend the rest of the game with this idea of "there *will* be an enemy around every corner." even if there isn't. And often, even expecting it like this won't save you from dying/being set back, it'll just make it less frustrating because when it happens you go "yep, called it."

The more frustrated the game gets you, the harder it is. You stop thinking clearly and making dumb choices. So you have two options: accept your fate as the fool of the game’s joke and don't get mad, or just get good enough that the rest of the game doesn't phase you. Losing your exp/currency (because they're the same thing for some reason) is just icing on the cake as you die to something you knew was there on your way back to the boss because everything respawned.

Pair all of this with enemies having 0 commitment to their attacks causing them to 180 no scope you after you moved out of the way of the attack and they said "well, I'll just turn while swinging?" meaning the only way to avoid damage is to I-frame through it or block it. At least Monster Hunter gives you the option of "I'll move to the side and the monsters attack will miss and I can snipe them in the head with this True Charge Slash" because the monster doesn't goes "oh, I'm mid swing and he moved, I'll just adjust my aim." you can't outplay a Souls boss with predictions, you just have to use reactions. It's not fun.

I'm in the overwhelming minority on my views for Sous games, I know they're incredibly popular and by definition are *good* games. They're just not the game design I enjoy.

Edit: and it's not a FromSoft thing, because I *love* the Armored Core series and the difficulty in those games.

Edit 2: an analogy that popped into my head for how to describe the "surprise! Gotcha!" enemies is, they're Souls-like's version of Jump Scares. Once you know it's there, it's not scary anymore. Except these jump scares can kill you. Watch anyone play a horror game that the only horror is jump scares. It's less and less scary each time they pop up because... You're used to it. That's how those enemies are in Souls-like, it's meant to frustrate you and make the game harder because you're frustrated, but they're not actually difficult enemies and if you removed them entirely the game would be far easier. It would even be easier than Monster Hunter if they removed the Bosses being able to aim their attacks mid swing. They're not hard games if you get the joke.

[RotGoblin]

Originally posted by ModdedNostalgia:

Ay Elden Ring ain't even Souls-Like IMO

You're almost certainly alone in that viewpoint.

[ModdedNostalgia]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by ModdedNostalgia:

Ay Elden Ring ain't even Souls-Like IMO

You're almost certainly alone in that viewpoint.

That's okay XD I thought Dark Souls was much harder fr tho. It was straight up punishing to play compared to Elden Ring. I was never frustrated to high-hell playing Elden Ring - and that's the difference I'm outlining. Sure, some of the souls mechanics still exist, but the environment and execution is so different that it doesn't feel like a souls entry. There are other things to fight when you are having trouble with what's in front of you, and you can go anywhere. Not to mention the dang Spirit Ashes which are like companions to aid you in boss fights and other special locations - it just ain't the same level of difficulty and frustration that the original souls entries had.

[ModdedNostalgia]

@Scipo0419 Just a personal experience thing and definitely just feels, but the enemy AI from DS3 to Elden Ring is just wildly different in practice. You don't feel like the butt of a joke anymore - instead it feels like a misstep in a dance when you f*** up. Idk if you've played Elden Ring at all and have your own experiences, but it just ain't the same from my POV.

Taking out Millicent/Melania was a pleasure for me - and that was the most punishing boss in the game at the time that I last fought her. I died like 90-ish times (with some being rough close matches), but rebuilding my character and trying different things to take her s*** out - it was rewarding as hell to defeat her. My method may have been cheesy in the end to the average buster-sword souls player, but it ended up being a fun experience overall.

[DLOZanma]

Originally posted by ModdedNostalgia:

Nah it ain't even like that though - it's the way jumps combo with other attacks... It just opens up another dynamic of fighting combos alongside current ground-level fighting dynamics, which just feels more exciting and fluid - and that's not including the addition of player-controlled verticality when traversing the map.

Idk going from Elden Ring to Monster Hunter Worlds was like going back in time a whole decade in terms of feeling fluid in gameplay for me - I just can't put my thumb on the feeling, but I was just hoping that this entry would be the break-in point for me. I'll just have to wait for now - if it ain't got a jump button, it ain't for me. I may be picky, but that's just how it is lol.

MH doesn't want to be a combo game, even in Rise. MH is about weirdly strong but otherwise normal humans fighting giant monsters with big but strong weapons. You might want to try the God Eater franchise since there some weapons thrive on jumping and air attacks.

[★ Moonlight ★]

Jumping in Monster Hunter would suck because then the Insect Glaive would lose a big part of its identity, which is being able to jump and do aerial attacks