Does Lance mains still want to play Lance?

[Yamada]

they took away the most important part of Lance gameplay, making it accessible for almost every weapon

I don't understand the direction for Lance in Wilds, does the devs want it to be a defensive weapon? now all guard-capable weapons can do Perfect Guard just fine. does the devs want it to be an offensive weapon? the damage number doesn't show that..

don't know about others but I played Lance in Iceborne because I fell in love with how cool all the counter moves over all the existing weapons...

but Offset Attack is a thing now, I just can't find any reason to play Lance

the new addition Charge Counter is good, but that's kinda it?

Does Lance Mains still want to play Lance?

[NetBattler]

引用自 Fraktal：

Giving other weapons perfect guard doesn’t take away from lance’s identity.

This is a silly argument.

it didnt take away lance identity but it takes away its uniqueness when its already been the last ranked weapon for the last 3 generation of MH game. all shielded weapon can perfect guard, most of them can guardpoint, without shield weapon can counter, its basicly lance only uniqueness.

[NetBattler]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Scipo0419：

Having played Lance in World just before and just after the Wilds Beta, even at 20 FPS I felt Lance had a lot of mobility. I'm not talking about charging and jumping and zipping around, I'm talking maneuvering around the monster.

With Focus Mode (not sure if you can do it without, can't remember) You can sidestep between each poke and aim your attacks very easily. The charge is still very good, feels mostly the same, the guard dashing was a bit weird to get used to due to the new inputs but it felt fine once I adjusted.

It seems like a case of "I'm not used to the new systems/combat" and not "Lance feels terrible."

I have over 400 hours on Lance in MHWI alone, and you are wrong.

Watch that video, then watch this one:
https://youtu.be/qhSNnyslWa8?si=CsYHEGVI5RMD-3DD

That video is from someone that thought that Lance felt good in Wilds, so it is not biased. But from the video, you can clearly see how much slower and clunkier and more rooted in spot Lance feels in Wilds.

Lmao, Famous Streamers that specialize on MH only content wont make a title say the weapon is bad since capcom wont like it, they will only explain the bad part of the weapon in some shorts comment on vids that not with Lance as its title, check his Reydau time with Lance, its almost 12minute run while him using other weapon kill Reydau only takes about half as much time, even Arekz gaming said lance is clearly not as good as world's, i main lance and almost all of us said its definitely felt its slow n clunky, its not about feel, but fact, there some vid on yt that show world's n wild side by side, how most lance move much is slower compare to world and they mention its damage is the lowest compare to all other weapon.

And theres also Reydau Speedrun Leaderboards, lance still take the last place as always, now it even lost to HH. Currently theres only talks about 2 weapon that feel not as good as world, theyre Lance and IG, but IG is debatable because its mostly a new n diffrent playstyle/remake, while Lance is still the same playstyle but half buff n half nerfed.

[Friends with Benedicts]

as a casual I tried lance since 2nd gen but never managed to use it. Same for gunlance.

I just like yielding big stuff and hitting hard (long swords, hammers, hunting horns, charge blade, switch axe). Funnily enough I just cant play GS either.

I feel 0% compelled to try them on Wilds

[Scipo0419]

引用自 NetBattler：

引用自 D. Flame：

I have over 400 hours on Lance in MHWI alone, and you are wrong.

Watch that video, then watch this one:
https://youtu.be/qhSNnyslWa8?si=CsYHEGVI5RMD-3DD

That video is from someone that thought that Lance felt good in Wilds, so it is not biased. But from the video, you can clearly see how much slower and clunkier and more rooted in spot Lance feels in Wilds.

Lmao, Famous Streamers that specialize on MH only content wont make a title say the weapon is bad since capcom wont like it, they will only explain the bad part of the weapon in some shorts comment on vids that not with Lance as its title, check his Reydau time with Lance, its almost 12minute run while him using other weapon kill Reydau only takes about half as much time, even Arekz gaming said lance is clearly not as good as world's, i main lance and almost all of us said its definitely felt its slow n clunky, its not about feel, but fact, there some vid on yt that show world's n wild side by side, how most lance move much is slower compare to world and they mention its damage is the lowest compare to all other weapon.

And theres also Reydau Speedrun Leaderboards, lance still take the last place as always, now it even lost to HH. Currently theres only talks about 2 weapon that feel not as good as world, theyre Lance and IG, but IG is debatable because its mostly a new n diffrent playstyle/remake, while Lance is still the same playstyle but half buff n half nerfed.

Lance, slowest weapon, had a 06:50 Rey Dau clear. Bow with the fastest clear was a 03:40 clear. That's not a significant margin of difference

[D. Flame]

引用自 Scipo0419：

引用自 NetBattler：

Lmao, Famous Streamers that specialize on MH only content wont make a title say the weapon is bad since capcom wont like it, they will only explain the bad part of the weapon in some shorts comment on vids that not with Lance as its title, check his Reydau time with Lance, its almost 12minute run while him using other weapon kill Reydau only takes about half as much time, even Arekz gaming said lance is clearly not as good as world's, i main lance and almost all of us said its definitely felt its slow n clunky, its not about feel, but fact, there some vid on yt that show world's n wild side by side, how most lance move much is slower compare to world and they mention its damage is the lowest compare to all other weapon.

And theres also Reydau Speedrun Leaderboards, lance still take the last place as always, now it even lost to HH. Currently theres only talks about 2 weapon that feel not as good as world, theyre Lance and IG, but IG is debatable because its mostly a new n diffrent playstyle/remake, while Lance is still the same playstyle but half buff n half nerfed.

Lance, slowest weapon, had a 06:50 Rey Dau clear. Bow with the fastest clear was a 03:40 clear. That's not a significant margin of difference

3 minutes and 40 seconds is 220 seconds.
6 minutes and 50 seconds is 410 seconds.

410 is about an 86.4% increase from 220. That is a massive margin of difference.

[Scipo0419]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Scipo0419：

Lance, slowest weapon, had a 06:50 Rey Dau clear. Bow with the fastest clear was a 03:40 clear. That's not a significant margin of difference

3 minutes and 40 seconds is 220 seconds.
6 minutes and 50 seconds is 410 seconds.

410 is about an 86.4% increase from 220. That is a massive margin of difference.

It's really not though. 47mph is ~86.4% faster than 25mph, which isn't "significantly" faster, though I suppose that's subjective.

We're also not considering the 12 weapons between first and last place. Nor are you taking into consideration that only the top two or three weapons broke the 4 minute mark on clears. Everything else was in the 7-5 minute range

[D. Flame]

引用自 Scipo0419：

引用自 D. Flame：

3 minutes and 40 seconds is 220 seconds.
6 minutes and 50 seconds is 410 seconds.

410 is about an 86.4% increase from 220. That is a massive margin of difference.

It's really not though. 47mph is ~86.4% faster than 25mph, which isn't "significantly" faster, though I suppose that's subjective.

We're also not considering the 12 weapons between first and last place. Nor are you taking into consideration that only the top two or three weapons broke the 4 minute mark on clears. Everything else was in the 7-5 minute range

It would be like if you gave your kid $10, and the other one $19. That is almost double, and they are definitely going to notice if you say, "the difference isn't significant."

[Gillium]

No.

[Scipo0419]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Scipo0419：

It's really not though. 47mph is ~86.4% faster than 25mph, which isn't "significantly" faster, though I suppose that's subjective.

We're also not considering the 12 weapons between first and last place. Nor are you taking into consideration that only the top two or three weapons broke the 4 minute mark on clears. Everything else was in the 7-5 minute range

It would be like if you gave your kid $10, and the other one $19. That is almost double, and they are definitely going to notice if you say, "the difference isn't significant."

If you had 14 kids, gave one 10 and the other 19 and then gave out money between those numbers to the other 12 kids, with the caveat that some of them did better at the task than others. It wouldn't be as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.

We also haven't considered skills at all. The beta had very limited skill choices. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. If Lance took 10-15 minutes and every other weapon in the game was under 5, I'd agree with you. But the variance between weapons is not that large. See my post below for numbers and the source.

[Scipo0419]

Source: https://youtu.be/i7BfBlKBs6w?si=-UOfA8YS8__Q8lq5

14. Lance; 06:50
13. Switch Axe; 06:38
12. Heavy Bowgun; 06:30
11. Sword and Shield; 05:51
10. Light Bowgun; 05:32
09. Dual Blades; 05:24
08. Hunting Horn; 05:02
07. Insect Glaive; 04:57
06. Hammer; 04:54
05. Greatsword; 04:48
04. Gunlance: 04:35
03. Longsword; 04:34
02. Charge Blade; 04:06
01. Bow; 03:40

As you can see, Bow is the only weapon that had a sub 4 min clear. And the bottom 4 weapons are all within 60s of each other.

Edit: Ultimately the discussion is pointless because Capcom already confirmed balances changes to the demo coming up in Japan so these numbers will change

[Rahk]

Yes I will still play Lance.

[D. Flame]

引用自 Scipo0419：

引用自 D. Flame：

It would be like if you gave your kid $10, and the other one $19. That is almost double, and they are definitely going to notice if you say, "the difference isn't significant."

If you had 14 kids

I am not chasing a moving goal post. You made the comparison of lance to bow, and that is what I am sticking with.

86 is closer to 90 than to 80, if we round to the nearest 10th, and 9 out of 10 is almost double. Almost double is a massive margin. No matter how you try to spin it that will not change.

[Scipo0419]

引用自 D. Flame：

引用自 Scipo0419：

If you had 14 kids

I am not chasing a moving goal post. You made the comparison of lance to bow, and that is what I am sticking with.

86 is closer to 90 than to 80, if we round to the nearest 10th, and 9 out of 10 is almost double. Almost double is a massive margin. No matter how you try to spin it that will not change.

I made a comparison of the slowest speed to the fastest. I didn't want to list all 14 weapon times, which I ended up doing anyway, and even said in my second reply: We're also not considering the 12 weapons between first and last place. Nor are you taking into consideration that only the top two or three weapons broke the 4 minute mark on clears. Everything else was in the 7-5 minute range

So my goalpost has not moved, you just misunderstood that I meant Lance vs Bow, and not "gap between slowest and fastest." in a race (which typically tracks lap time in seconds like we're tracking clear time), the leader of the pack sets the pace and everyone else is compared to him. So Bow clearing at 03:40, and Lance closing off the pack at 06:50 is a +3:10 "lap", but there are 12 other weapons between them as shown in a post above. The gaps between first and last place is not as significant as you're making it out to be.

Fatalis in MHW TA Rules:
01. Heavy Bowgun: 09:33
02. Great Sword: 09:53
03. Bow: 10:43.95
04. Dual Blades: 10:43.98
05. Longsword: 10:56
06. Insect Glaive: 11:45
07. Switch Axe: 12:01
08. Charge Blade: 12:39
09. Lance: 12:53
10. Sword and Shield: 12:54
11. Light Bowgun: 13:13
12. Hunting Horn: 15:59
13. Hammer: 16:01
14. Gunlance: 25:54

Source: https://mhwleaderboards.com/monsters/fatalis/gunlance/ta-wiki-rules/all

That's a 171% change in time between first and last place. But Since Gunlance is a massive outlier, well do your percentage comparison between first and second to last place, which is a 68% increase in time. 19% less than the Wilds beta, which again, Capcom confirmed balance changes so this entire conversation is pointless.

[RotGoblin]

I mean we all know Bow, Longsword and Charge Blade are getting DPS nerfs before launch?

Right?

They were a little too overturned in the beta.

Just as Lance, SwAxe and HBG will probably get a very slight buff.

[Scipo0419]

引用自 Goblin：

I mean we all know Bow, Longsword and Charge Blade are getting DPS nerfs before launch?

Right?

They were a little too overturned in the beta.

Just as Lance, SwAxe and HBG will probably get a very slight buff.

Yeah, we also have to consider the lack of skills to capitalize on. I'm sure with the full release the values will be closer. To worlds. 50-60% gap, especially with no outliers like Gunlance anymore lol