What do you think about this discussion on "hitstops"

[#1 CLIMBER]

@AxeLayer(twitter): If you felt like the combat in the MHWilds beta felt "off," it's not just you! As this short comparison video shows, Capcom seems to have reduced hitstop on most (if not all) weapon types in Wilds, leading to some weapons 𝘧𝘦𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘨 worse than they did in prior games.

https://x.com/Axelayer/status/1853123320079663522 Visit the link for the example video.

[sintri]

I mean if felt off in the sense that it was faster gameplay which also made it a bit more forgiving since you weren't locked for a million years on every attack. Not sure if it's any less impactful since most of the impact comes from staggers in the first place. Have also heard from people who didn't grow up with it that MHW combat felt slow, so maybe they're trying to address that.

[Cookie]

All of your hitstop belongs to savage axe now.

[ARscar]

there is no hitstop at all bro it feels so bad honestly this game is hot garbage because of it the combat just feels really bad like really bad

[Midas]

I know I'll get used to not having it, but I would rather have it. It gave that extra 'oomph' to combat that made it feel more weighty and visceral.

[Hikaru]

I never liked hitstop. Glad it is gone. It never did anything but make my attacks feel weaker. How would taking more time to cut through a monster or bash through it feel stronger? The logic of the weak who never did anything powerful in life.

Like, it works if you don't know anything about how forces work in reality I guess, but once you learn about how it feels to be powerful in real life, hitstop just becomes a feeling of weakness.

[DOY]

Gotta design monster fights with hitstop in mind since it adds to weapon attack / combo time duration. And then the technical side of things capcom has a tendency to have problems extrapolating animation key frames across varying frame rates. Get weird anomalies like longer animations across some move sets and attacks doing more or less damage as you get higher or less frame rate over the standard target. When you reach end game you stop caring about something like this and you care more about chasing damage numbers or exploiting fight openings. in rise and world you more likely saw more critical hit flash efx on screen feeling dopamine then you did with hit stop. But that's my take.

[Midas]

Originally posted by Hikaru:

I never liked hitstop. Glad it is gone. It never did anything but make my attacks feel weaker. How would taking more time to cut through a monster or bash through it feel stronger? The logic of the weak who never did anything powerful in life.

Like, it works if you don't know anything about how forces work in reality I guess, but once you learn about how it feels to be powerful in real life, hitstop just becomes a feeling of weakness.

Spoken like a weak person. The reason hitstop felt powerful is because you felt the resistance, and your attack getting through that resistance. Without it you're swinging at air, which is what it feels like when you're weak and have never swung at anything substantial.

[Hikaru]

Originally posted by Midas:

Originally posted by Hikaru:

I never liked hitstop. Glad it is gone. It never did anything but make my attacks feel weaker. How would taking more time to cut through a monster or bash through it feel stronger? The logic of the weak who never did anything powerful in life.

Like, it works if you don't know anything about how forces work in reality I guess, but once you learn about how it feels to be powerful in real life, hitstop just becomes a feeling of weakness.

Spoken like a weak person. The reason hitstop felt powerful is because you felt the resistance, and your attack getting through that resistance. Without it you're swinging at air, which is what it feels like when you're weak and have never swung at anything substantial.

The reason you think hitstop felt powerful is because you've never done anything meaningful with your body in your life. Stop pretending rofl. True power just exceeds all resistance in an instant. Stop preaching about your mid-weak level power. You're talking to someone truly strong.

[Terron]

Its a big problem. Without hitstop the combat feels far less impactful. Even the sound effects are less heavy sounding for the most part though not bad. I main switchaxe and though its still fun its really lacking a lot of that oomph from world which hurts. Just watch a clip on youtube of someone doing a zero sum discharge in world vs Wilds and the difference is very noticeable. I went into audio and turned all music and a stuff down to 60 and maxed out effects sounds to 100 in wilds to help alleviate it somewhat and still it doesnt sound as good as world let alone feel as good without the hitstop EXCEPT for that new big heavy charge move. That feels meaty which is good. Hopefully improvements are made before final release because having smooth gameplay at the expense of making it feel like most attacks are hitting air is not a good tradeoff. Gimme back that hit stop please. All we can so is hope our voices are heard. I filled out that survey at least and suggest everyone do the same for a better chance of capcom taking notice.

[RotGoblin]

I personally don't understand why pausing frames supposedly makes weapon hits seem heavier.

All it does to me is make it look like the game stuttered lol.

Personally I like Wilds much more fluid combat.

[Hikaru]

Originally posted by Goblin:

I personally don't understand why pausing frames supposedly makes weapon hits seem heavier.

All it does to me is make it look like the game stuttered lol.

Personally I like Wilds much more fluid combat.

Yup, the one thing it does is like, add temporal significance to an attack. To me though, it just makes stuff feel weaker. Why would a super strong powerful attack take more time to move through the target? If it was a really heavy and powerful blow, it would just cleave through like butter.

Hitstop maybe makes the monsters feel more powerful, tougher hide would be slower to chunk through, but it doesn't make the weapons feel more powerful. There is also an inconsistency because you are fast to cut through the monster with weaker attacks and it only slows down for heavy attacks.

I always felt like I was doing something wrong when I got hitstop, like I was not hitting the weak part of a monster in mh4u.

[Terron]

Originally posted by Goblin:

I personally don't understand why pausing frames supposedly makes weapon hits seem heavier.

All it does to me is make it look like the game stuttered lol.

Personally I like Wilds much more fluid combat.

Thats fair enough too. We all like what we like. This video explains how hit stop helps so much in emphasising impact and power and makes shots especially heavy shots feel like they pack so much more power. It uses smash bros (as well as other titles) as an example of where hitstop helps in terms of game feel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdVkEOzdCPw&list=LL&index=6&t=5s

[Corona Scurrae]

hitlag should be treated as salt you apply while preparing a dish. a pinch of it is more than enough and in wilds' case, it's good. it's the reason why I liked it. team ninja for example makes little use of hitlag because you don't need to apply excessive hitlag to help it shine.

Originally posted by Goblin:

I personally don't understand why pausing frames supposedly makes weapon hits seem heavier.

All it does to me is make it look like the game stuttered lol.

Personally I like Wilds much more fluid combat.

I concur. in rise if you played with any fast weapons and hit the vulnerable parts of the monster ( eg db ) it felt like a stutterfest. that's the reason why I initially disliked rise.

[Corona Scurrae]

Originally posted by DOY:

Gotta design monster fights with hitstop in mind since it adds to weapon attack / combo time duration. And then the technical side of things capcom has a tendency to have problems extrapolating animation key frames across varying frame rates. Get weird anomalies like longer animations across some move sets and attacks doing more or less damage as you get higher or less frame rate over the standard target. When you reach end game you stop caring about something like this and you care more about chasing damage numbers or exploiting fight openings. in rise and world you more likely saw more critical hit flash efx on screen feeling dopamine then you did with hit stop. But that's my take.

I agree. it was intentional.

[Corona Scurrae]

Originally posted by Terron:

Originally posted by Goblin:

I personally don't understand why pausing frames supposedly makes weapon hits seem heavier.

All it does to me is make it look like the game stuttered lol.

Personally I like Wilds much more fluid combat.

Thats fair enough too. We all like what we like. This video explains how hit stop helps so much in emphasising impact and power and makes shots especially heavy shots feel like they pack so much more power. It uses smash bros (as well as other titles) as an example of where hitstop helps in terms of game feel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdVkEOzdCPw&list=LL&index=6&t=5s

tbf that is the smash bros dev. in 2d fighters it makes sense if it's applied in a reasonable manner. I think in most 2d fighters it's too much.