Wilds Should Have Elemental DPS Checks For More Monsters, And Find Ways To Make Endgame Grinding Fun

[SSSExpert2023]

Now, I know you're probably looking at the title, and your pissed off. But I'm making it abundantly clear that I don't think that, in WORLD, the Alatreon is good. However, assuming you have the weapons and armor, and skills (which I did) I think it's....tedious, lazy, and unnecessary. All the Judgement is is just a RPG style AOE attack that deals less damage the more you hit it with elemental weapons. I personally despise the side of the community that tells players to "git gud" and adapt, like it's dark souls and wears conveniently having armor and weapons (and materials) on standby, or having the free time (and patience) to stand around in the grinding lands for hours just to power up their gear to tip top shape as a badge of honor.

That's actually the main issue. I don't think we'd see players demanding the Alatreon be nerfed if everyone just had to take a few minutes or a hour to get their stuff in order and head on out. The game was on indefinite hiatus, and they couldn't even be bothered to tell players about this specific mechanic that forced you to use elemental weapons (and don't you dare be disingenuous and say "just brute force it solo, and get carted twice, LOL"), which is a awful move in my opinion since we had TWO monsters that dropped some of the most powerful elemental weapons in the game, so you know players ended up selling these rare drops when they weren't what they wanted for the meta set so they never have to grind again (this is very important). And since we were never told about this mechanic, everyone wen't in and then realized that they'd have to leave and grind for hours on end to deal with ONE attack. An attack that's not even really an attack, but just wastes resources. Even if you DID have the gear to deal with it though, you were still expected to take damage, and I will say that I'm skeptical that Alatreon's fighting style matches up with the speed you'll be expected to attack at, but what I'm most irritated by, are the people who immediately went "Just Adapt!" "Git Gud", and other nonsense. The ones that pretend like this sort of thing was always in Monster Hunter when the games couldn't even be bothered to tell you how various different mechanics worked. That's not to say that the players who demanded the attack be nerfed or removed were completely innocent either; if people threw ideas out just because they didn't work at first, we wouldn't have many of the things we did. It's pretty silly to just say nerf, when the issue is so blatant to anyone that tried to upgrade their gear and realized that they had to go through a horrid slog to get what they needed if they didn't want to make things harder for themselves.

From what I remember, you needed the materials from the monster themselves, including gems or plates or other such materials, then you armor spheres, and then you needed some other materials that were best obtained from that engine minigame, and the only way to get the materials you needed was to muck about in the Guiding Lands. A ton of that grinding doesn't even involve fighting monsters, and if it does, they can realistically be dealt with within minutes, making the whole process boring and repetitive. I know Monster Hunter is a game known for it's grinding, but that's only if you are using weapons best used with an element. With a weapon that benefits more from raw or simple opting to ignore meta, it's really not that long, and actually pretty fun since you don't have to get different armor sets to work with all the elements, then upgrade them all. With the Alatreon, however, you are likely not only going to want to get an armor set for it's one form, you are likely going to want to get one for his other form, which has different resistances. And it IS an Elder Dragon, so I don't think drawing the line at the Guiding Lands is going to cut it, either. If I recall, actually, there was an Event that allowed you to grind for the materials you'd need to upgrade your gear, but the people in charge removed it while the Alatreon was still going! I am not joking! The bottom line, if the grinding was somehow changed to involve fighting difficult monsters for a substantial award, and they kept events with easier beasts, but with less of a payout, then it would be a matter of "grind for a hour or two" to get the armor you need, then you could fight the Alatreon and be prepared for it's mechanic. Of course, the same people whining about being kicked out for not having meta gear are probably the same ones groaning when they see people sign up for this with blast weapons (and kick them out), and they'll have a bunch of entitled excuses as to why grinding should be made unnecessarily tedious or even why Capcom shouldn't have WARNED players during the hiatus. It's not "fake difficulty", but Capcom was, is, and might always be "hamstrung", because without Judgement, you're still killing the new monster for a few hours and getting a spiffy new set. If you need ONE attack to get players to spend more time on your game, that's not new content, that's just padding. My point is, if everyone HAD the elemental weapons and sets they needed, they wouldn't be so uppity about this boss fight, and I'm dissapointed hardly anyone pointed this out. Especially since this, again, this wasn't a mechanic featured in older Monster Hunters, and Boomers that want newer Monster Hunter games to be harder apparently think a mechanic that doesn't do anything substantial if you are more prepared than James Bond, is the way to go, especially since you never had an incentive to use elemental weapons before hand.

Actually, I stand corrected; it DID have this kind of stuff, but the primary difference was that it rewarded you. The Kushala Daora was the prominent, if not only example, but looking at it, the wind barrier it had could be dismantled by poisoning it, which gave you more options on how to approach the fight. Then you had Dragonseal, which could've been implemented better, but my point is that the Judgement Mechanic isn't bad in of itself. The way I figure it, the mechanics should've been either a form change or long attack that was hard to dodge, might of required a different skill-set like platforming or memory, and could seriously mess you up at full power. Like, near-Fatalis level power. BUT, if you did an elemental topple, you wouldn't have to deal with the power/stance, because you already proved your penchant for aggression, which requires a good defense. And if you wanted to play defensively, that skill would be put to the test as well. At that point, anyone complaining really would be either a noob or averse to reward. In it's current state, the Alatreon's Judgement was bad, and there was apparently a Monster in Rise that did the same thing, but it just really hurt rather than insta-cart. I don't think that's good either. I think an Elemental DPS Check that works as a side objective or route select would be better, because those that want to use a Meta DPS set to avoid grinding can just get a well-rounded experience, but those who take the time to grind to match a statistics from an RPG perspective can be rewarded in unique ways that make it worth it. It's not just Alatreon, either; a ton of the monsters could benefit from having different things happen if you use an elemental weapon on them, with the weapons being re-balanced to allow for unique statuses. How about the Zinogre or Rajang getting hit with their own lightning resulting in more ferocious attacks at the cost of "recoil", creating an opening for certain attacks or creating opportunities to get guaranteed staggers a-la Roman Hunting? How about better drops if you DO use elemental weapons? My point is that elemental COULD be good, and it needs to be experimented with in a way that rewards or changes the Dynamics of a fight, not just removes a barrier or make a fatal attack hurt a little.

[SSSExpert2023]

TormentedSalad eredeti hozzászólása:

UnrealExpert2023 eredeti hozzászólása:

They both have attacks that can be deflected and if you do it changes their move-set. What I want is additional options on how to approach a hunt by way of elemental damage. Like, if you, say heat up a mizutsune, it makes them shoot out steam or something rather than bubbles. It wouldn't really change how you approach a hunt, because again, all it would change is what damage numbers correspond to until after a threshold. If you don't like that hypothetical scenario, you'd just have to avoid using fire element weapons. I'm just throwing out a hypothetical way to make elemental DPS checks more impactful and optional.

It is important to me that I choose my armor and weapon I am ok with the monster influencing that in some cases Val hazak or bringing poison weapon to Kushala were perfect examples those are also both elder dragons and I am perfectly capable of ignoring it if I so wish I am more flexible on monsters vs our tools I am a big fan of the many unique trap interactions in monster hunter and I wish we had more of those

Yeah, Kushala is what I'm talking about. Maybe a bit more exciting for the monsters with multiple weaknesses.

[MonkeyOfWAR]

Man I really wanna engage but the unstructured wall of text is horrible lol

[TormentedSalad]

UnrealExpert2023 eredeti hozzászólása:

TormentedSalad eredeti hozzászólása:

It is important to me that I choose my armor and weapon I am ok with the monster influencing that in some cases Val hazak or bringing poison weapon to Kushala were perfect examples those are also both elder dragons and I am perfectly capable of ignoring it if I so wish I am more flexible on monsters vs our tools I am a big fan of the many unique trap interactions in monster hunter and I wish we had more of those

Yeah, Kushala is what I'm talking about. Maybe a bit more exciting for the monsters with multiple weaknesses.

It is fine on elder dragons as long as the result is rewarding and nothing is forced I do think they should consider adopting the anti flash mechanics they used with deviants, for example dreading rathalos could not be brought down till his wing was broken forcing players to deal with his flight and rewarding them for breaking the part it's much better than making them immune after a while

[JPM岩]

TormentedSalad eredeti hozzászólása:

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

Element isnt what needs an overhaul, it's the weapons themselves. Rise did an amazing job making element more prominent, with even Elemental Hammer getting more useage. Some weapons just arent designed to use element, so unless these weapons get completely overhauled, or get good elemental options, there's no point to overhauling element.

What was special about hammer in Rise? I will admit I wasnt really feeling it in Rise so I kinda ignored it

Due to different weapon styles based on your moves, element hammer was more viable, simple as. Element is NEVER the issue, it's the weapon itself. In a way I can better explain, Switch Axe has had three phial types since day 1, Power, element, and exhaust. It's added more since then, but we'll focus the core three. Power has always been the core choice since 2011 until the release of Rise. Why? Because the weapon wasnt properly balanced at a mechanical level. Hell, World basically showed that off proudly, by basically removing every phial but Power. Rise then went, and reworked mechanics of the weapon, and now element and exhaust are power contenders vs power, with element being a better choice in most matchups. And they didnt change element as a mechanic, they changed the weapon's mechanics and how it can better use element.

[Fraktal]

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

TormentedSalad eredeti hozzászólása:

What was special about hammer in Rise? I will admit I wasnt really feeling it in Rise so I kinda ignored it

Due to different weapon styles based on your moves, element hammer was more viable, simple as. Element is NEVER the issue, it's the weapon itself. In a way I can better explain, Switch Axe has had three phial types since day 1, Power, element, and exhaust. It's added more since then, but we'll focus the core three. Power has always been the core choice since 2011 until the release of Rise. Why? Because the weapon wasnt properly balanced at a mechanical level. Hell, World basically showed that off proudly, by basically removing every phial but Power. Rise then went, and reworked mechanics of the weapon, and now element and exhaust are power contenders vs power, with element being a better choice in most matchups. And they didnt change element as a mechanic, they changed the weapon's mechanics and how it can better use element.

They went overboard on their redesigns. Every weapons get counters, has insane mobility to the point each weapon seems to lose its identity.

Look at CB, you get on demand GPs into SAEDs. Swax has the best counter in the game. DBs you just spam spiral all day. They ruined IG, any of the runners for that weapon will agree.

Hopefully Wilds is less Devil May Cry. FWIW I like DMC.

[TormentedSalad]

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

TormentedSalad eredeti hozzászólása:

What was special about hammer in Rise? I will admit I wasnt really feeling it in Rise so I kinda ignored it

Due to different weapon styles based on your moves, element hammer was more viable, simple as. Element is NEVER the issue, it's the weapon itself. In a way I can better explain, Switch Axe has had three phial types since day 1, Power, element, and exhaust. It's added more since then, but we'll focus the core three. Power has always been the core choice since 2011 until the release of Rise. Why? Because the weapon wasnt properly balanced at a mechanical level. Hell, World basically showed that off proudly, by basically removing every phial but Power. Rise then went, and reworked mechanics of the weapon, and now element and exhaust are power contenders vs power, with element being a better choice in most matchups. And they didnt change element as a mechanic, they changed the weapon's mechanics and how it can better use element.

I am well aware of that I played rise after all it was fun toying around with wave slash for the GS too i'd never dream of taking that over my charges but I am still left where I started some switch skill or something made element hammer better

[JPM岩]

Fraktal eredeti hozzászólása:

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

Due to different weapon styles based on your moves, element hammer was more viable, simple as. Element is NEVER the issue, it's the weapon itself. In a way I can better explain, Switch Axe has had three phial types since day 1, Power, element, and exhaust. It's added more since then, but we'll focus the core three. Power has always been the core choice since 2011 until the release of Rise. Why? Because the weapon wasnt properly balanced at a mechanical level. Hell, World basically showed that off proudly, by basically removing every phial but Power. Rise then went, and reworked mechanics of the weapon, and now element and exhaust are power contenders vs power, with element being a better choice in most matchups. And they didnt change element as a mechanic, they changed the weapon's mechanics and how it can better use element.

They went overboard on their redesigns. Every weapons get counters, has insane mobility to the point each weapon seems to lose its identity.

Look at CB, you get on demand GPs into SAEDs. Swax has the best counter in the game. DBs you just spam spiral all day. They ruined IG, any of the runners for that weapon will agree.

Hopefully Wilds is less Devil May Cry. FWIW I like DMC.

They didnt do anything crazy with redesigns? All they did was add some more moves. Hunting Horn was the only weapon that got a redesign. Also, only two more weapons got counters, Hammer and I think Great Sword, any weapons that had counters, already had them in some shape or form in a previous title. Like, Switch Axe used to have a counter in Frontier. Also, the mobility isnt that insane as people make it out to be, youre never zipping around during combat, sometimes you'll ride the dog, but that isn't a common thing by any means.
CB always had on demand SAEDs, at least back in 4th Gen. I good hunting buddy of mine would essentially instantly charge SAEDs and pop them off. Also, SA's counter is strong, yes, but it also doesnt work half the time, plus you're locked into the animation and can easily get killed if youre careless without a good amount of coordination. DBs has ALWAYS been the spam weapon, since at least 3rd Gen, idk if you only started with world or what, but it's always been spam, essentially the bowgun of melee weapons. I have also never heard a single IG speedrunner ever complain about IG. I know when Rise first released there were complaints about the downward thrust being a wirebug move, but that was like, before even the Elder Update. Since then, I've yet to really see complaints, in fact most folks praise Glaive for where it's at currently.
Also, the fact you think Rise plays like DMC means youve never played DMC or Bayonetta or any actual Action RPGs. Like, you can say you dont like Rise, but lying isnt the way to go about things.

[JPM岩]

TormentedSalad eredeti hozzászólása:

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

Due to different weapon styles based on your moves, element hammer was more viable, simple as. Element is NEVER the issue, it's the weapon itself. In a way I can better explain, Switch Axe has had three phial types since day 1, Power, element, and exhaust. It's added more since then, but we'll focus the core three. Power has always been the core choice since 2011 until the release of Rise. Why? Because the weapon wasnt properly balanced at a mechanical level. Hell, World basically showed that off proudly, by basically removing every phial but Power. Rise then went, and reworked mechanics of the weapon, and now element and exhaust are power contenders vs power, with element being a better choice in most matchups. And they didnt change element as a mechanic, they changed the weapon's mechanics and how it can better use element.

I am well aware of that I played rise after all it was fun toying around with wave slash for the GS too i'd never dream of taking that over my charges but I am still left where I started some switch skill or something made element hammer better

So looking into it, GS is the only weapon where Raw is king, and it's simply due to GS being too slow to benefit from Element-related skills, so it's better to invest into Raw. Now, historically, GS has gotten a weapon or two where the Element is so ridiculously high you HAVE to use it, but again, it ties back to just how the weapon is designed. Now, the absence of the Non-elemental Boost skill also helps element in general with Rise, so if it were to return, it'd be balancing that skill to see how element will be going forward.

[Fraktal]

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

Fraktal eredeti hozzászólása:

They went overboard on their redesigns. Every weapons get counters, has insane mobility to the point each weapon seems to lose its identity.

Look at CB, you get on demand GPs into SAEDs. Swax has the best counter in the game. DBs you just spam spiral all day. They ruined IG, any of the runners for that weapon will agree.

Hopefully Wilds is less Devil May Cry. FWIW I like DMC.

They didnt do anything crazy with redesigns? All they did was add some more moves. Hunting Horn was the only weapon that got a redesign. Also, only two more weapons got counters, Hammer and I think Great Sword, any weapons that had counters, already had them in some shape or form in a previous title. Like, Switch Axe used to have a counter in Frontier. Also, the mobility isnt that insane as people make it out to be, youre never zipping around during combat, sometimes you'll ride the dog, but that isn't a common thing by any means.
CB always had on demand SAEDs, at least back in 4th Gen. I good hunting buddy of mine would essentially instantly charge SAEDs and pop them off. Also, SA's counter is strong, yes, but it also doesnt work half the time, plus you're locked into the animation and can easily get killed if youre careless without a good amount of coordination. DBs has ALWAYS been the spam weapon, since at least 3rd Gen, idk if you only started with world or what, but it's always been spam, essentially the bowgun of melee weapons. I have also never heard a single IG speedrunner ever complain about IG. I know when Rise first released there were complaints about the downward thrust being a wirebug move, but that was like, before even the Elder Update. Since then, I've yet to really see complaints, in fact most folks praise Glaive for where it's at currently.
Also, the fact you think Rise plays like DMC means youve never played DMC or Bayonetta or any actual Action RPGs. Like, you can say you dont like Rise, but lying isnt the way to go about things.

Downward thrust lost bug drill, and individual ticks. I bet it also lost nado slash on landing. I might replay Rise before Wilds with Glaive anyway.

Also I liked Rise for what it was. I don’t regret the 3-400 hours I have in it.

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

This is...a whole lot of yapping. Saying that you dont think Alatreon's mechanics was good, but then the rest of the rambling is about how its actually wasnt bad.

[SSSExpert2023]

Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer eredeti hozzászólása:

This is...a whole lot of yapping. Saying that you dont think Alatreon's mechanics was good, but then the rest of the rambling is about how its actually wasnt bad.

I'm saying that the concept itself isn't bad, but the execution was terrible and they should refine it and put it in the game so people will have a reason to use elemental weapons, and that reason should be something other than just more damage so it won't be the way damage is now, but with extra steps.

[TormentedSalad]

UnrealExpert2023 eredeti hozzászólása:

Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer eredeti hozzászólása:

This is...a whole lot of yapping. Saying that you dont think Alatreon's mechanics was good, but then the rest of the rambling is about how its actually wasnt bad.

I'm saying that the concept itself isn't bad, but the execution was terrible and they should refine it and put it in the game so people will have a reason to use elemental weapons, and that reason should be something other than just more damage so it won't be the way damage is now, but with extra steps.

The reason to use elemental weapons is simple give people a reason to want to use not to need to use it I played alot with elemental greatswords in Rise the wave slash stuff was really funny was it the best thing I could be doing probably not but it was great vs monsters with good weakness especially funny to bully poor shogun

[SSSExpert2023]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Give people an optional way to alter the monster's move-set or weaken them or something that makes using elemental weapons reasonable (and make grinding fun), but don't overdo it and make it a necessity.

[JPM岩]

UnrealExpert2023 eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Give people an optional way to alter the monster's move-set or weaken them or something that makes using elemental weapons reasonable (and make grinding fun), but don't overdo it and make it a necessity.

World had more than just alatreon for this. Lavasioth, Barroth, Jyu and Lunastra had changeable properties if you used water element. Lavasioth could heat up if you used fire. Rise and preWorld titles had Kush and Teo's auras get weakened by poison.

[SSSExpert2023]

JPM岩 eredeti hozzászólása:

UnrealExpert2023 eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Give people an optional way to alter the monster's move-set or weaken them or something that makes using elemental weapons reasonable (and make grinding fun), but don't overdo it and make it a necessity.

World had more than just alatreon for this. Lavasioth, Barroth, Jyu and Lunastra had changeable properties if you used water element. Lavasioth could heat up if you used fire. Rise and preWorld titles had Kush and Teo's auras get weakened by poison.

Well if that's what how it is (I haven't played MH since Iceborne), I hope they build the latter route than the former (Alatreon).