Should I Use Small Frame?

[dwaynegand]

In earlier games, Small Frame was one of the best traits you could pick. An extra point of agility at the cost of lesser carry weight was always seen as a fair trade. In this game, I've been hearing a lot of negative things about it. Especially if you play in Hardcore mode. An extra point to Agility is always nice, but it comes at the cost of more damage to limbs, resulting in them being broken more often and you having to go to a doctor, use a doctor's bag, or a stimpack if you were playing in Normal mode. The Tough Guy perk could cancel out much of it, but your limbs would still be more fragile than if you didn't take the trait.

Currently, none of my planned builds use Small Frame for this reason. But I've been reading about people still taking this trait even when playing Hardcore.

Some say it's great. Others say it's one of the worst. What do you think?

[psychotron666]

In new Vegas it's a trash trait. Special aren't as important and it's easier to increase special or max agility.

If you rush honest hearts dlc you can make a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of healing poultices to offset the constant crippling but that's also a lot of work for simply 1 agility.

[Comsiama]

Never used it; I play every game at the highest difficulty. It's not worth but it doesn't really matter in the long run.

[dwaynegand]

Okay, so if Small Frame is worthless, what other trait can I pair off with:

-Built To Destroy with all my hand to hand builds that use critical hits?
-Heavy Handed hand to hand builds?
-Trigger Discipline with fully automatics builds?
-Loose Cannon with the grenade demolitionist build?

[~~Andrew~~]

the only trait that I always pick is Wild Westerland, it adds more content to game

[Sédrio]

Originally posted by dwaynegand:

Okay, so if Small Frame is worthless, what other trait can I pair off with

It's only a worthless trait if you don't intend on using a playstyle that uses agility. Agility is all about VATS and Sneak attacks. That's why small frame is pretty great as you can go with 8 Agility (+1 implant, +1 small frame). You shouldn't take that much damage if you're sneak attacking, so it's essentially a free agility point for a negligible downside. And you could take Eye for an Eye and actually seek out broken limbs for that extra damage bonus.

[Razgriz / SkyAce]

Originally posted by Sédri:

Originally posted by dwaynegand:

Okay, so if Small Frame is worthless, what other trait can I pair off with

It's only a worthless trait if you don't intend on using a playstyle that uses agility. Agility is all about VATS and Sneak attacks. That's why small frame is pretty great as you can go with 8 Agility (+1 implant, +1 small frame). You shouldn't take that much damage if you're sneak attacking, so it's essentially a free agility point for a negligible downside. And you could take Eye for an Eye and actually seek out broken limbs for that extra damage bonus.

Pretty much this.

There are better choices and there are worse choices. If you like what a trait or perk brings to your build, then take it.

[dwaynegand]

Then what do you suggest to pair off with what I listed above for the builds, if not using Small Frame?

[Sédrio]

Originally posted by dwaynegand:

Then what do you suggest to pair off with what I listed above for the builds, if not using Small Frame?

Skilled and Logan's Loophole are solid choices for all builds. If you don't know what traits to pick, it won't hurt to pick one of them. I personally always pick Skilled.

The -10% experience gain from Skilled is pointless as there is so much exp in this game.

and Logan's Loophole if you plan on using lots of consumables and don't mind losing 20 levels. You can create great builds with 15 perks so the level cap to 30 isn't that big of a deal.

[Razgriz / SkyAce]

Originally posted by dwaynegand:

Then what do you suggest to pair off with what I listed above for the builds, if not using Small Frame?

Skilled is usually considered an S choice for all builds, unless you have mods that change the XP amount granted per kill and quest completition.

Hot Blooded could be interesting for the Build to Destroy and Heavy Handed melee builds you mentioned earlier.

Kamikaze maybe for the Trigger Discipline and automatic weapons build. More AP for Vats and watnot.

For the Loose cannon, maybe go with Hoarder so that you can carry a little more ammo at all times without being overencumbered.

[dwaynegand]

Thanks for the advice! Though I have doubts about Kamikaze as it reduces damage resistance and I don't use automatics with VATS. Trigger Discipline is mainly for reducing spread with those weapons, and the reduced attack speed doesn't affect them, so I get the benefit without the penalty, just like taking Fast Shot for burst fire builds in the first two games.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by dwaynegand:

Okay, so if Small Frame is worthless, what other trait can I pair off with:

-Built To Destroy with all my hand to hand builds that use critical hits?
-Heavy Handed hand to hand builds?
-Trigger Discipline with fully automatics builds?
-Loose Cannon with the grenade demolitionist build?

Heavy Handed if you plan on CQC as most melee and unarmed sucks donkey schlong on crits, so you won't be doing a crit-build if you're planning to use melee/unarmed.
Same with loose cannon, distance on most explosives already is in Tihuana performing 'a show', shortening it even more will cause you emo-culture-levels of self harm.

Either go for Good Natured or Skilled

The lack of offensive skills because of Good Natured is negligible but the raised socials do help a lot early on.
-10%xp from skilled also is negligible but the +5% on everything is great

EDIT: Hoarder, as mentioned earlier, is a good choice too for explosive builds as those usually mean a heavy armor and quite heavy weapons and ammo

[Uncle_J]

I have a small frame IRL, and it limits how much i can lift or carry without getting injured, so i would never use the Small Frame perk.

[Facetable]

If taking it for build purposes, probably not - Small frame generally isn't useful in my experience. Agility as a stat really only matters for a couple perks related to stealth/melee (In particular Ninja and Tunnel Runner) but its usually possible to get those with only 5 or 6 agility at base (can get from implant+divide survivor). Skilled is pretty generally always a solid pick (fun fact you can swap it out when leaving Goodsprings to keep the skill points). Aside from that Built to Destroy is great for crits, Wild Wasteland for some silliness. Can also swap out Logan's loophole at Big MT to make early game a bit smoother

So yeah overall I'd say nah build-wise. Could be some flavoring for a character though

[dwaynegand]

I'm using the YUP patch. Among the many fixes are the Skilled exploit when you reselect Skilled when allowed to change your traits.

[My Hairy Cheeks]

I recommend Built to Destroy and Skilled. They have some negatives but they are hands down the strongest pair in my opinion.

Built to Destroy pros:
-Increases every weapon's crit potential by 3%, huge benefit
Built to Destroy cons:
-15% faster gear degradation. With Jury Rigging, weapon repair kits and vendors, it's easily countered.

Skilled pros:
- +5 skill points to ALL skills, again HUGE benefit
Skilled cons:
- -10% XP gained, can be countered with Well Rested affects and honestly, it extends your gameplay progression which I value in a complete playthrough.

Logan's Loophole is powerful yet it limits the end game builds severely.
Four Eyes (if you plan to wear Lucky Shades anyways) and Hoarder are fairly positive but not practical in most situations such as DLC which strips your gear away, forcing you to commit to a certain play style.

The combo with zero downsides is Good Natured and Skilled, netting you a +10 skill points to Barter, Medicine, Repair, Science, and Speech as Skilled negates the loss of points for every other skill. (I dismiss the -10% XP gain because it's really quite nominal and just extends the game)
Everything else isn't really worth the negatives to me. It's always up to the player on how they want to play but this is my two cents for you.