So, what do you think a Courrier-ran New Vegas state would be like?

[Mr Shelley]

In an effort to actually make a lore discussion without it devolving in East vs West (Fo3 versus NV, FO1, and FO2), I decided to make this topic. Because, I'm just curious what eveeryone thinks. I for one think New Vegas will be positioned to be the highest in term sof tech because we have access to Big MT, and maybe even the Sierra Madre. Besides that, I'm sure a few excursions into the Divide would increase the power.

So, that makes Vegas a prime BOS target, which means I think they will have to deal with the BOS attacking them for the tech. I don't think the NCR would dare to invade, yet.

[baddude1337]

I'd say that New Vegas would become an unstoppable new nation, especially with the scientists and tech of the Big MT on their side, as well as an army of killer robots. Even BOS will have a hard time attacking them. Not to mention the casinos will keep the caps flowing. That's if you're a good courier of course, a dumb evil courier will probably make it devolve into anarchy and chaos.

[Mr Shelley]

That and the Courrier could live forever if he becomes like the scientists at Big MT. Making him eerily similar to Mr. House that he slew.

[baddude1337]

Yeah, I guess he probably would, he could also go equally as nuts as the scientists at MT. It would be cool to see in a future sequel if there is a canonical ending, as although the NCR one will probably be the canon one (just a personal feeling - 1 and 2 furthered the NCR) the independent ending could make a cool new faction in the wasteland in the future.

[bothersome]

Well, Dr. O, err Zero, doesn't like RobCo tech, so... But over-all, with the help of the doctors at Big MT, things would definately give the NCR some trouble if they decided to re-take New-Vegas.

With me being the boss, I'd try to improve the quality of life for all at New-Vegas. Greed and money have been the downfall of mankind since it was invented. So, I'd persue some other type of civilization. Especially now that we've got sentient robots doing the heavy lifting.

First order of business though is to hire the people into work forces to get the streets and buildings cleaned up and repaired. Get some new concrete mixing going to get the streets and sidewalks repaired. Get some of those big brains working on the plant life from Vault-11 so we can find a way to feed everybody. Get some control over the Prison to put short term wrong doers in. There is no long term prison sentancing. Anything over 5 years is a puplic hanging. Or sent to Big MT for doctor Dalla's experiments.

Also get some serious research into the Seirra Madre Vending Machines. We need more of those. Supposedly it was invented at Big MT. I think Dr. Mobias would be willing to help on that. We also need an extermination team to hunt and seek out all the dangerouse wild life that's not part of the plan. Like Giant Radscorpions and Cazadoors. If the Death-Claws can't be tamed, exterminate them.

Send an ambassidor to Red-Rock Canyon to explain that any more attacks on our "new world civilization" will result in their extermination. They would be welcome to join us though.

[Mr Shelley]

However, I just realized The Shi would be more technologically advanced.

[baddude1337]

Originally posted by Vlad:

However, I just realized The Shi would be more technologically advanced.

I wonder if the NCR has done anything about them or have some form of agreement with them. They'd certainly be useful allies, but they're just as isolation loving as the BOS, and after the defeat of the Enclave and BOS the NCR have some pretty good tech of their own, we just see them at their low and most stretched point in New Vegas.

[Simiman]

This is a very broad subject. Let's ignore DLC for a minute.

In every ending event that involves a City-State New Vegas, the quality of life for a lot of people goes down, and frankly, because there's no one to run things, everything kinda sucks. And there's no doubt that people would become unhappy and allow the NCR to impeach them. The Courier won't live forever to drive them back, and even then he can't take everyone on at once.

If he were to consult with Yes Man, no doubt it would involve recruitment of officials of interest to keep the peace and improve overall life. The army of robots would only last for so long, and we don't really know if there's any sort of manufacturing plant that can make more. Aside from Big Mountain.

Again, we're steering away from the DLC because of COURSE everything would be fine if the Courier just took a bunch of ♥♥♥♥ from Big MT. or installed Yes Man in it's systems or something. That's too easy.

The Courier would no doubt be sent all across the countryside, retrieving stuff because, hey. That's what he does best! And that's all you ever do in the games too! You never inherently have the power or know-how to completely usurp anyone. They fill a niche not easily replaced, you simply have the ability to do your job with better results, like altering flight coordinates for Bright's rockets.

This would go on until eventually he dies of old age or some facet of the Wasteland. What then? Well Yes Man can't autonomously go on unless commanded, so it's safe to say that from there, everything would run itself very slowly into the ground. The robots would rust, the people would keep growing, and eventually, the NCR would catch wind and absorb the bigger Vegas into it's fold, if they hadn't died out already as well.

(Edit: I forgot to implement the BOS into my reply. Their overall presence in both, California and Nevada is very small. With the NCR more than capable of exterminating them,, and I apologize to the OP for mentioning East Vs. West, but it's safe to assume that the Eastern BOS is like a seed for a new chapter to thrive and survive. Considering Lyons' attitude changing the BOS to be more like an early NCR with power armor, one could assume that they'll grow the same way the NCR did, albeit slower and more carefully because of their differing goals and need for weapons tech. So I think that's where Bethesda is going with the overall story.)

[Mr Shelley]

Its fine Mobius. I didn't want a thread about New Vegas being better than FO3 or vice versa.

Also, if what you say of the courrier is true, how come the Vault Dweller created his own village, he was only good for "getting" the water chip ;)

[Simiman]

Originally posted by Vlad:

Its fine Mobius. I didn't want a thread about New Vegas being better than FO3 or vice versa.

Also, if what you say of the courrier is true, how come the Vault Dweller created his own village, he was only good for "getting" the water chip ;)

The Vault Dweller was a Vault Dweller, and was given the education needed to rebuild society in his Vault, same as any other before succumbing to their experiments.

Courier is just a mailman with some general know-how around his skillsets.

[Undead Llama]

Personally, I think it becomes something of a Flux State; some parts ordered, some parts more wild than a Deathclaw high on Psycho, but an extremely dangerous place considering it is now acting as a buffer area between the NCR and Legion (who still want the Mojave for themself)

As for the Courier, I doubt they will experience a long, happy life - they've now got a massive bull's eye painted on the back; either one of the Families looking to extend their control over the strip, or one of the two nation's they bloodied seeking revenge.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

I think that Lee Oliver nails it; a state run by an intinerant delivery agent would be a fundamental disaster. The Courier knows nothing about the day to day affairs of politics and city management, and while he could rely on Yes Man for providing basic utilities, the actual decision making would be up to him. How is the Courier going to manage the often conflicting interests of the casino families? How is he going to either continue to assert the political status quo with Freeside or integrate the Freeside factions into Vegas proper? How will the Courier manage relations with the non-Vegas factions around the Mojave? North Vegas and Westside will likely want a bigger piece of the pie. What about the BoS? They aren't going to be cool with tech-heavy Vegas, at least not in the long run. Finally, while the Legion will ultimately fall apart, how will the Courier handle long-term relations with the larger, more powerful, and and pretty angry NCR?

House, Kimball and even Caesar are better schooled in geopolitics than the Courier. While the notion of running things is attractive from a gameplay perspective, the reality is that such an outcome is ultimately doomed to failure.

[A Disappointed Horse]

Here's the problem, at the end of the Yes Man path, he tells you he's getting an update to become 'more assertive' (pretty creepy). Personally, I don't think the Courier actually has any control after the end. Pretty sure Vegas ends up either totally ruined in that path or ran completely by robots. Both are terrible outcomes.

[Mr Shelley]

I get the feeling the consensus is the canon ending is either House or NCR wins Vegas.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by Vlad:

I get the feeling the consensus is the canon ending is either House or NCR wins Vegas.

Basically, yes. The New Vegas devs had been talking offhand about how the NCR was getting too big and organized, and that it was changing the flavor of the game universe in ways they didn't like. Based on this, I would speculate that the canon ending will be that House and the Courier boot the NCR from the Mojave, the Legion implodes and the NCR goes back to California and thinks over the whole imperialism thing, resulting in a lot of internal strife and becoming a lot smaller and less powerful in the process while House runs Vegas as an independent city state.

[Mr Shelley]

Well, the Great Khans can carve an empire out of the Northwest. So the NCR, isn't getting too big in that regard. The Mojave is a different story.

Speaking of this, I feel the same way about the BoS. If they can travel all the way to the East Coast, they are too powerful. I still like to think an independent, non-House led, Vegas would be interesting. But, there are several problems as mentioned in this thread with it. Does not mean that devs are beholden to the endings (they don't need to pick a canon one) so long as they are careful how they write it.

I think the NCR should be kept away from entering Texas or the Plains. But I'm fine with a NCR controlled Mojave/ Nevada. There's enough splintering factions within it (Followers, BOS, other possibilities) that we need not worry about it getting too big. BOS is not a part of the NCR btdubs, but they holdings in NCR territory.

The BOS is too big though. Good thing the Vegas devs had them fight the NCR and mainly lose, it seems. I mean. We have them holding Pittsburgh and the Capital Wasteland. They also are probably a major faction in Chicago. Knowing they have holdings in the West and that they are splintered in different factions, I still think they're too big.