This will change how you view Mr. House

[WE WUZ KANGS N SHIEEET]

It's wrong to label Mr. House as evil.
Did you even pick apart his arguments and actions?

First thing in his favor is that he saved my ♥♥♥. He didn't need to do that. Really. My head had a new hole in it. I don't recall a single other Fallout 3 or NV character or faction to pull me out of my grave and put so much faith in me to fulfill their life-long dream.

Second thing is that he doesn't consider me a mercenary. I quote:
"I'm not offering you an incentive as crude as money - though there'll be plenty of that. What I'm offering you is a ground-floor opportunity in the most important enterprise on Earth. What I'm offering is a future - for you, and for what remains of the human race."

Just check out that vocabulary and demeanor! He's impeccable!

He's a visionary, he's a hopeful dreamer who got off his proverbial ♥♥♥ and actually does something for the future, not for the present. He sees and works for more than merely survival or control, he fights for progression, evolution, advancement; in his own words:
"Give me 20 years and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years and I'll have people in orbit."

Those are his goals! Not territory control. Not being the ruler of the land.
Not invading other places. He's working for the people, for the human race:

That was what really changed my mind about him.

As for the popular choice, NCR, I finished my first play-through with them, but I'm not sure about my current run. I mean, I may follow the Dam battle with NCR after all, I wouldn't want to kill them all and they're clearly a better choice than the Legion. House could use their firepower against Caesar. But my loyalty lies with House. I think he should make the decisions.

I see corrupt governments every day everywhere. They're a plague to the human race.
It's a warfare based regime. Look at USA:

Did you know oil lobbyist persuaded the US Gov. to kill the electric car industry for over a century? Well we all know the US Gov. bailed out the corrupt bankers and put hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes, on their asses, bankrupt. Even as far back as the 1100's when the Arab society was seeing an immense intellectual and scientific uprising, "the powers that be" claimed math books are the work of the devil and that halted their progress by even a millennium and it's still ongoing. That's exactly what NCR promises. The rich corrupt interests safely guarded while the greater good is stomped on. They already would back the casino tribe's interests against that of House and you know this. It's already started!

What really caught my loyalty to the House is when he said:
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows."
I did, I actually walked up to the windows of his penthouse and looked out. I was horrified. The quote "War, War Never Changes" struck me!
Anything that was still standing was because Robert Edwin House took out 68 of the 77 nuclear warheads heading for the city. Everything that was broken as far as I could see and beyond, all across the globe, was because of the divisive politics of the old world leaders, politics that NCR and the Legion still sustain.

Politicians will always be dirty, lying, hypocritical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. Put one in jail, 3 more rise up to take his place, his connections, his "benefits", his power and influence, and they almost always use it for personal gain rather than for the good of the people. And the young ones learn the crooked ropes really ♥♥♥♥ing fast, and they go further than their predecessors. I have worked with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, lawmakers, politicians, mayors. The righteous ones are opposed by the crooked system and removed if they don't mend. The ones that cede once, will always do it again, once their character breaks its shell and gets infected they have nothing stopping them from failing his or her own principles and values again and again and again, be it for self-interest, political/party interest, greed, blackmail or simple misguidance, with complete disregard to what's right to do.

They'll always get rich off of the poor and the sickly, off of the addicts and the meek, through dishonesty and mass manipulation. There are good people in NCR, of course, but then again there were some excellent gentlemen as Nazi officers and colonels in World War II, who were just following orders or those who have had nothing to do with the camps and gassing innocents.

At its core NCR is based on a divisive system, keeping the poor at the bottom and making the rich even richer, way above and beyond the purpose of law, promoting their ranks solely on namesake and affiliation rather than merit. Just like the B.O.S. they don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about collateral damage and "outsiders".

In relation to the Fiends or Great Khans, how are the NCR any different than the Enclave? I'll tell you how: they're weaker in numbers, technology and leadership coordination. I'm not saying I would ever side with the Enclave, but at least they didn't stretch so far as to condemn entire squadrons of their own men and entire towns (like in Nelson, Searchlight and Nipton) because of lack of manpower and equipment. They were more humane and intelligent than that.

One man can make a difference: one man with knowledge that stretches 261 years, with a scientific mind (father of RobCo Industries), with natural leadership (he's built the most successful corporation in his name and civilized the casino tribes), with an undenying genius in technology and economy and sheer force of will (he's looked 200 years for the platinum chip and never gave up on it).

And he's not a dictator figure. He doesn't care if people worship him. It's not his face on the Securitron's displays. He doesn't call in people to kneel before him and pray to him and praise him. He stays in all alone and watches patiently from above. He'd rather have the courier take all the glory and get all the praise. He just wants to put people back in their own homes, in schools and engineering colleges, in factories and on the moon.

The others don't impress me half as much as Mr. House does. Based on his own words:
"To your untrained eyes, it may look as though mankind is making a comeback. In the NCR, you have something that resembles a nation state. Savage as it is, in Caesar's Legion, you have an organized society. But neither of these offer a future. They're regurgitations of the past."
And they only lead to more war.

If you take Mr. House out of his stasis chamber, he will ask you why you have ruined his plans and he will react differently depending on what you tell him:
- If you say you did it in the name of the NCR, he will belittle them and call you a "sad, misguided ♥♥♥♥♥"
- If you tell him you are acting on behalf of Caesar, he will be horrified that slavery is humanity's future.
- If you say you did it for Yes Man, he will tell you your "vanity project" is doomed for failure.
- If you say it was just business, he will retort by saying that you should have worked for him for personal gain.
- Finally, if you say you did it just because you didn't like him, he will call you a fool for letting your feelings about him jeopardize humanity's future.

I never killed him, but I took that from his wikia page.

I feel that although he praises "dispassionate calculation" to reach success, a lot of his motivation is in the love for and faith in mankind. He's seen the horrors and managed the damage and he still believes people are worth saving, that they're smart enough to handle new technology and that under his leadership he'll prevent them from using it against each other.

Age and information brings wisdom, and though a lot of Ghouls have rotted their memories along with parts of their brain, his genial brain capacity is ever more extended through the use of his computers.

His obituary said:
"Lost forever is his bounty of knowledge concerning human longevity, the depth and breadth of which could, as he was apt to say, <fill several text books>. He was not exaggerating."

I think he really follows the goals of the DC Brotherhood of Steel of fighting the Good Fight, and when he seems like he's ready to kill anyone opposing him he's no different than the Knights were, all suited up and ready to battle. But he picked up the savages from the streets and gave them enterprises to run. That's the most important principle current politicians and those of NCR are forgetting - it's not about your own well-being, it's about the current and future generation's well-being.

Also I'd like to think I'll bring even more humanity to his method if I remain loyal to him.
Independently I wouldn't be able to manage what he does. By his side I could steer him away from unnecessary violence and "dispassionate calculations" that could bring possible negative outcomes, and I will appeal to his reason and intelligence, not to his greed or mercy. He would never cast out a good well formed argument without a better counter-argument and superior calculation. And he's not above appreciating humanity and compassion.

Yes, I lobby for Mr. House because not enough of you took the time to hear him out and envision his side of the story. Because you'd rather settle for what you know, although it's utterly broken, than to take into account the risks and rewards of an intelligent, capable, incorruptible mind set on not only ensuring the future, but making it better and brighter than before.

[MassiveBallSack]

No I'd rather live with no rights than live thinking I do have rights when really I don't. If you get what I mean. At least in the first instance I know who to fight against and so does evebody else.
EDIT: Not rights I mean like freedom.

[Oberon]

引用自 SquidyInk：

No I'd rather live with no rights than live thinking I do have rights when really I don't. If you get what I mean. At least in the first instance I know who to fight against and so does evebody else.

And in the second instance, the enemy probably doesn't even exist. That's called paranoia.

[Greenlazer]

引用自 Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball：

And only a couple of them were designed to be habitable.


He chose to save his businesses, his hometown, and the other 600,000 people in it.

Considering the system was massively expensive and incomplete by the time he needed to use it...

A: ALL the vaults were designed to be habitable. But a majority (At least 100) had some sort of mass social experiment going on. Several were control vaults. The last handfull were pretty much Vault Tec getting sick kicks. Either way, thats a LOT of hollowed out ground and concreate and living space made as well as equipment designed to last a thousand years (source: fallout 3 claims earth is habitable by 3100, more research needed to remember exact date). A few laser defence turrets should cost about the same.

B: While thats all fine and dandy, he could save MORE people, but chose not to. Admit if you wanted to do the most good for the united states by saving one city, Las Vegas may not even crack the top ten. Saving his buisness and casinos is extreamly selfish, especialy in a world where people are hurting for basic necesities. Remember that people who run the Tops call him "Mr Not at Home" due to how little hes doing for the people besides putting people in charge of his casinos.

C: This is why I think he COULD have told people his plan. He had the most innitiative in the project and with governement backing he would DEFINANTLY have been able to save at least a dozen other cities, if not the entire united states. But he didnt and now he gets a world of zero compitition and he gets everyones money. What a hero.

[Greenlazer]

引用自 Two Bears：

This would seem to fly in the face of your previous assertion that the law is the law is the law. So sometimes it is necessary to violate the law for the greater good.

But we have established in the Robin Hood scenario one reaches a point where the law is such that "work harder" is no longer effective. When the rules are stacked against you do you simply starve or server the greater good? I'm not stealing that loaf for me.

My point is that the law is ment to SERVE people. If it ceases to do so then its worthless as a law. Same should go to those who uphold laws. I would divide them into two catagories: Human law, and Government law.

Human law is basic stuff: Dont run down the street without clothing atemting to behead every human you meet. (Part of the glorious fallout humor mind you). Stealing belongs here as no mater what the reason is, more humans are hurt than aided by it.

Government law is more along the lines of "Go 45 on this highway". While thats not exactly something thats been set in stone since the begining of time, its still something that keeps the peace. If it DOSENT keep the peace (Say it goes though a school zone and chaos ensues daily.) then the law should be changed. again, same with peacekeepers.

[Greenlazer]

引用自 SquidyInk：

I think it's not fair to judge mr house by what he wa before Fallout, things were different. Sure he had a casino but that hardly makes him "evil" just a business man I suppose. However during this game I feel you could consider him almost a compeltely different person to his much younger self.
I think he is genuine.... But it's still a risk siding with him, after all like many have said anybody can say one thing and mean something else it's called lieing and people do it all the time.
For this is one of the reasons I chose Legion instead. It is clear what they will do after, they are ruthless but simple. I personaly find when money controls (or any cunning way of conrtoling masses) people like in todays capitalism it leaves me thinking that eliteist rich people can easily pull the strings and nobody is none the wiser. This sort of thing really scares me and I'd rather be ruled by a Totalitarian government at least that way I know who to blame/be afraid of/fight.

First off Money is not a "Way of controling the masses" its a unit of trade that will be a staple of human life for all of eternity. The same way the centemeter will always be invented as a way of showing how big something is. Bottle caps in the fallout world were desined with this in mind. Everyone has easy access to a handfull of them, and there is a set amount of them being realy hard to create more, preventing inflation. Please note that the caps are also backed by gold in the Hub the same way dollors are today..... No idea what the heck east coast caps are backed by but its probobly the same thing I mentioned as a base unit of trade.

Secondly, the Legion is a fair choice, but be aware you have chosen the hardest life for the wasteland. They dont have to worry about crime or large threats anymore, but they dont have any kind of freedom or say in their lives anymore. Thats part of the catch with serving ceaser as all the other choices are more "American" and you will be thowing away a lot of liberty and freedom picking him.... even though hes the most adapt to the wasteland.

[Oberon]

Building more defense systems would have solved nothing. The Lucky 38 defense system only worked because he wrote up a new OS at the last second, one that was buggy as all hell, didn't even stop the nuclear bombardment, and nearly killed him. By the time the proper OS was completed, the Great War was already on, and it was too late for the Platinum Chip to be of any use to anything except the Securitrons.

It's true, what he did have stopped 70 nuclear warheads from hitting Vegas. The fact that seven nuclear warheads (And keep in mind, one is enough to devastate an entire city) hit Vegas anyway kind of squashes any sense of achievement one could get from that.

[~xx~]

引用自 Greenlazer：

引用自 Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball：

And only a couple of them were designed to be habitable.


He chose to save his businesses, his hometown, and the other 600,000 people in it.

Considering the system was massively expensive and incomplete by the time he needed to use it...

A: ALL the vaults were designed to be habitable. But a majority (At least 100) had some sort of mass social experiment going on. Several were control vaults. The last handfull were pretty much Vault Tec getting sick kicks. Either way, thats a LOT of hollowed out ground and concreate and living space made as well as equipment designed to last a thousand years (source: fallout 3 claims earth is habitable by 3100, more research needed to remember exact date). A few laser defence turrets should cost about the same.

B: While thats all fine and dandy, he could save MORE people, but chose not to. Admit if you wanted to do the most good for the united states by saving one city, Las Vegas may not even crack the top ten. Saving his buisness and casinos is extreamly selfish, especialy in a world where people are hurting for basic necesities. Remember that people who run the Tops call him "Mr Not at Home" due to how little hes doing for the people besides putting people in charge of his casinos.

C: This is why I think he COULD have told people his plan. He had the most innitiative in the project and with governement backing he would DEFINANTLY have been able to save at least a dozen other cities, if not the entire united states. But he didnt and now he gets a world of zero compitition and he gets everyones money. What a hero.

It's ridiculous to blame a person for the actions of their era. We can never truly know why he didn't do any of the things you blame him for because we haven't been given a real estimate of how much it would've cost to have undertaken those projects or what others might've done in reaction had they found out. And clearly it wasn't as easy for him to do as you think because he barely saved Vegas with his own life.

You think all poor people should take control of their own lives and find a way to solve their own problems.

Yet you blame Mr House for not saving America's people like superman with the money he legitimately earned whilst refusing to give him credit for the things he did do.

Maybe Americans should've tried harder to survive? I don't think it's that difficult! (Sarcasm.)

He probably thought nuclear armageddon was inevitable. It's a lot of responsbility to demand one person control global events and the will of the people. Look at Bill Gates he spends his time trying to cure the world of disease. Should we villainise him for not interfering more in society and not trying to create a pacifist planet.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

引用自 Greenlazer：

My point is that the law is ment to SERVE people. If it ceases to do so then its worthless as a law. Same should go to those who uphold laws. I would divide them into two catagories: Human law, and Government law.

Okay, so law is only law if it is just.....

Human law is basic stuff: Dont run down the street without clothing atemting to behead every human you meet. (Part of the glorious fallout humor mind you). Stealing belongs here as no mater what the reason is, more humans are hurt than aided by it.

.....but the law is the law is the law......

Government law is more along the lines of "Go 45 on this highway". While thats not exactly something thats been set in stone since the begining of time, its still something that keeps the peace. If it DOSENT keep the peace (Say it goes though a school zone and chaos ensues daily.) then the law should be changed. again, same with peacekeepers.

......as long as the law is just. I'm not meaning to pick on you, but hold two points that are in disagreement with each other.

Aside from this, the idea of law and the common good is a distinctly modern notion. Historically, laws exist to keep the people in power, well, in power. There's a reason that Charles Dickens was so tough on the rich in his novels.

[Improper Use]

You know guys, and gals. I do understand the validity of source material and lore.

But all stories have a subtext and potential interpretational deviation from what is clearly; or not so, stated within a bit of story.

If you want to re-iterate exactly what house has said, we immediately have a sticking point.
There are no backup secondary or primary sources of house's claims. The man was the equivalent of Bill Gates in the 2000's an immesurably wealthy man who's only desire was to conquer the world via gambling and some defend the claim that he opened a casino?! To build lazers on?! in the middle of a highly populated urbanised city scape?!
This begs derision. It defys logic, its pulp, cartoon fiction trash. Is he now our superhero? Barely riding into the scene of Apocalyopse to valiently shove as many works of greatness into the boat before the tidal waves hit and innundate the sinners?

How can you eat this junk as acceptable?

His chip, after spending so much on it, House sends victor out after you. 1 bloody robot?
The piviotal moment of his last 100 years is within his grasp.. and he sends 1 robot?
He barely has a grasp of anything now, yet house still confidantly claims he is in control, he cannot send or risk a sortie to claim the most valuable thing in his current existance and immediate future.
His solution to the power issues within the Mojave after years of attempting to lie, politik and manipulate every group that comes within his scope, is to shoot them all?
He has abandoned and is about to terrorise the very 'people' he has claimed to protect. Albeit a claim that was made indirectly as he never emphasised saving the people of new vegas, just saving the city and himself.
Each step of his discussion is littered with self serving statements that lionise himself while attempting to infer that he has total control, so much control he is willing to use total force against all who have been at the table cooperating with his desires so far.

and I could go on, and on, and on.

His story. personality and background dont add up.
and he wears a nappy

[Oberon]

引用自 Improper Use：

This begs derision. It defys logic, its pulp, cartoon fiction trash. Is he now our superhero? Barely riding into the scene of Apocalyopse to valiently shove as many works of greatness into the boat before the tidal waves hit and innundate the sinners?

How can you eat this junk as acceptable?

Well, this is a series where a guy took a dip in crazy-sauce and turned into a giant blob monster that created an army of super mutants. Also where robots with the brains of humans are a common occurance. Also where there is a guy who is half-man, half-tree. Or where absorbing enough radiation gives you immortality and a skin condition.

When you see the '50s style ray guns, you kind of have to accept that things won't work quite the same way as reality.

引用自 Improper Use：

Each step of his discussion is littered with self serving statements that lionise himself while attempting to infer that he has total control, so much control he is willing to use total force against all who have been at the table cooperating with his desires so far.

When you kill him, his obituary is added to your Pip-boy. It paints him out to be a genius billionaire playboy philathropist. Like Tony Stark, except also Jesus.

[Oberon]

My God, I am going to refer to FEV as "crazy-sauce" from now on.

[Greenlazer]

引用自 Two Bears：

......as long as the law is just. I'm not meaning to pick on you, but hold two points that are in disagreement with each other.

Aside from this, the idea of law and the common good is a distinctly modern notion. Historically, laws exist to keep the people in power, well, in power. There's a reason that Charles Dickens was so tough on the rich in his novels.

Ok maybe im not making this clear enough (Not sarcasam, honestly blaming myself). I think its a case by case basis, either a law is unchangeable because thats how members of our species should treat one another. Or a law is a convinence of the society that may or may not work. Stealing belongs in the first catagory. Giving taxes to your king so he pays soldiers to protect you is the second. And if something in that law is broken, it should be fixed.

[MassiveBallSack]

[/quote]
Please note that the caps are also backed by gold in the Hub the same way dollors are today..... No idea what the heck east coast caps are backed by but its probobly the same thing I mentioned as a base unit of trade.
[/quote]
Umm actualy the gold standard for the dollar was ended in 1933, the US banks just come up with a number and put it into the system. It is just a number in the end that has no physical value especialy seen as most of it isn't even paper or coins.
In this day and age money is a means of controling the masses, it is our world at the moment. The rich basicaly control eveything! That is what capatalism is you can't deny that. The working class slave eveyday most days of the week just to earn enough money to be content with themself. I mean sure it keeps the world spinning at the same time and if you work hard you cna mae something of yourself but still there will always be somebody richer than you.

[Sohei]

oh yeah

[Pieape]

I just killed him because he wanted me to kill the Brotherhood