This will change how you view Mr. House

[WE WUZ KANGS N SHIEEET]

It's wrong to label Mr. House as evil.
Did you even pick apart his arguments and actions?

First thing in his favor is that he saved my ♥♥♥. He didn't need to do that. Really. My head had a new hole in it. I don't recall a single other Fallout 3 or NV character or faction to pull me out of my grave and put so much faith in me to fulfill their life-long dream.

Second thing is that he doesn't consider me a mercenary. I quote:
"I'm not offering you an incentive as crude as money - though there'll be plenty of that. What I'm offering you is a ground-floor opportunity in the most important enterprise on Earth. What I'm offering is a future - for you, and for what remains of the human race."

Just check out that vocabulary and demeanor! He's impeccable!

He's a visionary, he's a hopeful dreamer who got off his proverbial ♥♥♥ and actually does something for the future, not for the present. He sees and works for more than merely survival or control, he fights for progression, evolution, advancement; in his own words:
"Give me 20 years and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years and I'll have people in orbit."

Those are his goals! Not territory control. Not being the ruler of the land.
Not invading other places. He's working for the people, for the human race:

That was what really changed my mind about him.

As for the popular choice, NCR, I finished my first play-through with them, but I'm not sure about my current run. I mean, I may follow the Dam battle with NCR after all, I wouldn't want to kill them all and they're clearly a better choice than the Legion. House could use their firepower against Caesar. But my loyalty lies with House. I think he should make the decisions.

I see corrupt governments every day everywhere. They're a plague to the human race.
It's a warfare based regime. Look at USA:

Did you know oil lobbyist persuaded the US Gov. to kill the electric car industry for over a century? Well we all know the US Gov. bailed out the corrupt bankers and put hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes, on their asses, bankrupt. Even as far back as the 1100's when the Arab society was seeing an immense intellectual and scientific uprising, "the powers that be" claimed math books are the work of the devil and that halted their progress by even a millennium and it's still ongoing. That's exactly what NCR promises. The rich corrupt interests safely guarded while the greater good is stomped on. They already would back the casino tribe's interests against that of House and you know this. It's already started!

What really caught my loyalty to the House is when he said:
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows."
I did, I actually walked up to the windows of his penthouse and looked out. I was horrified. The quote "War, War Never Changes" struck me!
Anything that was still standing was because Robert Edwin House took out 68 of the 77 nuclear warheads heading for the city. Everything that was broken as far as I could see and beyond, all across the globe, was because of the divisive politics of the old world leaders, politics that NCR and the Legion still sustain.

Politicians will always be dirty, lying, hypocritical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. Put one in jail, 3 more rise up to take his place, his connections, his "benefits", his power and influence, and they almost always use it for personal gain rather than for the good of the people. And the young ones learn the crooked ropes really ♥♥♥♥ing fast, and they go further than their predecessors. I have worked with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, lawmakers, politicians, mayors. The righteous ones are opposed by the crooked system and removed if they don't mend. The ones that cede once, will always do it again, once their character breaks its shell and gets infected they have nothing stopping them from failing his or her own principles and values again and again and again, be it for self-interest, political/party interest, greed, blackmail or simple misguidance, with complete disregard to what's right to do.

They'll always get rich off of the poor and the sickly, off of the addicts and the meek, through dishonesty and mass manipulation. There are good people in NCR, of course, but then again there were some excellent gentlemen as Nazi officers and colonels in World War II, who were just following orders or those who have had nothing to do with the camps and gassing innocents.

At its core NCR is based on a divisive system, keeping the poor at the bottom and making the rich even richer, way above and beyond the purpose of law, promoting their ranks solely on namesake and affiliation rather than merit. Just like the B.O.S. they don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about collateral damage and "outsiders".

In relation to the Fiends or Great Khans, how are the NCR any different than the Enclave? I'll tell you how: they're weaker in numbers, technology and leadership coordination. I'm not saying I would ever side with the Enclave, but at least they didn't stretch so far as to condemn entire squadrons of their own men and entire towns (like in Nelson, Searchlight and Nipton) because of lack of manpower and equipment. They were more humane and intelligent than that.

One man can make a difference: one man with knowledge that stretches 261 years, with a scientific mind (father of RobCo Industries), with natural leadership (he's built the most successful corporation in his name and civilized the casino tribes), with an undenying genius in technology and economy and sheer force of will (he's looked 200 years for the platinum chip and never gave up on it).

And he's not a dictator figure. He doesn't care if people worship him. It's not his face on the Securitron's displays. He doesn't call in people to kneel before him and pray to him and praise him. He stays in all alone and watches patiently from above. He'd rather have the courier take all the glory and get all the praise. He just wants to put people back in their own homes, in schools and engineering colleges, in factories and on the moon.

The others don't impress me half as much as Mr. House does. Based on his own words:
"To your untrained eyes, it may look as though mankind is making a comeback. In the NCR, you have something that resembles a nation state. Savage as it is, in Caesar's Legion, you have an organized society. But neither of these offer a future. They're regurgitations of the past."
And they only lead to more war.

If you take Mr. House out of his stasis chamber, he will ask you why you have ruined his plans and he will react differently depending on what you tell him:
- If you say you did it in the name of the NCR, he will belittle them and call you a "sad, misguided ♥♥♥♥♥"
- If you tell him you are acting on behalf of Caesar, he will be horrified that slavery is humanity's future.
- If you say you did it for Yes Man, he will tell you your "vanity project" is doomed for failure.
- If you say it was just business, he will retort by saying that you should have worked for him for personal gain.
- Finally, if you say you did it just because you didn't like him, he will call you a fool for letting your feelings about him jeopardize humanity's future.

I never killed him, but I took that from his wikia page.

I feel that although he praises "dispassionate calculation" to reach success, a lot of his motivation is in the love for and faith in mankind. He's seen the horrors and managed the damage and he still believes people are worth saving, that they're smart enough to handle new technology and that under his leadership he'll prevent them from using it against each other.

Age and information brings wisdom, and though a lot of Ghouls have rotted their memories along with parts of their brain, his genial brain capacity is ever more extended through the use of his computers.

His obituary said:
"Lost forever is his bounty of knowledge concerning human longevity, the depth and breadth of which could, as he was apt to say, <fill several text books>. He was not exaggerating."

I think he really follows the goals of the DC Brotherhood of Steel of fighting the Good Fight, and when he seems like he's ready to kill anyone opposing him he's no different than the Knights were, all suited up and ready to battle. But he picked up the savages from the streets and gave them enterprises to run. That's the most important principle current politicians and those of NCR are forgetting - it's not about your own well-being, it's about the current and future generation's well-being.

Also I'd like to think I'll bring even more humanity to his method if I remain loyal to him.
Independently I wouldn't be able to manage what he does. By his side I could steer him away from unnecessary violence and "dispassionate calculations" that could bring possible negative outcomes, and I will appeal to his reason and intelligence, not to his greed or mercy. He would never cast out a good well formed argument without a better counter-argument and superior calculation. And he's not above appreciating humanity and compassion.

Yes, I lobby for Mr. House because not enough of you took the time to hear him out and envision his side of the story. Because you'd rather settle for what you know, although it's utterly broken, than to take into account the risks and rewards of an intelligent, capable, incorruptible mind set on not only ensuring the future, but making it better and brighter than before.

[R5CYA]

i don't really mind about his business practices or the robot army, he is a casino owner after all. we can't expect an angel. it's just that when i seem him in that tube with his lttle trucker's john attached and the feeding tubes and stuff, i freak out and want to kill.

[Bansheebutt]

Sounds like you have an incredibly low Charisma score.

[R5CYA]

nope.

[R5CYA]

incedibly low "sick-♥♥♥♥ wearing a metal diaper" threshold.

[Improper Use]

You don't find his character a little out of odds with the casino thing? If he was seeking to 'usher' in anything, why is he trading on some of the most socially damaging coinage - gambling. Let alone the drug abuse, prostitution and violence that is committed under this banner.

this is not the marks of someone intent on 'fixing' anything, this is someone who is utterly disrespectful of human life and its existance. Almost to the point where you would have a valid argument that he is a passive sociopath.

He is an asshat. Kill it.

[Greenlazer]

Първоначално публикувано от R5CYA:

i don't really mind about his business practices or the robot army, he is a casino owner after all. we can't expect an angel. it's just that when i seem him in that tube with his lttle trucker's john attached and the feeding tubes and stuff, i freak out and want to kill.

This is also part of the problem with house. one of the main theams of the game is "Its not worth holding onto the past". Both house AND NCR are atempting to "Keep america alive". But as we can see, thats no longer possible, at least not yet. House is a dusty sack of organs clinging to whatever power he had, just because thats how the old world worked. Its not how this world works and its something you have to come to terms with.

Hes also "Not human anymore". Gving light to both what you are siding with and who you are killing.

[A Disappointed Horse]

I've always maintained that House is the only sensible option.

[Greenlazer]

Първоначално публикувано от Necrojax:

I've always maintained that House is the only sensible option.

Come on man, if you wanna be a part of this conversation say something.

[SubjectSigma]

He's Very Ulitilatarian to say the least

[Zip-Loc-Za-Za]

I only read a bt of the first part because its TL;DR but you have to think, a 200 year old man in a chamber living off technology. He is greedy and doesn't see the outside world for what it is at the moment. (2279 or whatever) He probably hasn't been out of the chamber for 100+ years. Things change around him like he doesn't understand. House hasn't peeked out to breath the air of his own penthouse, let alone look out a window or listen to radio broadcasts.

There is fallout lore that shows the scale of devastation in large areas. Cities such as New York, Arizona, Denver, Washington D.C, all of those places and the rest had Stage 5, the worst. The only city unaccounted for is New(Las) Vegas. Now this obviously means that somebody behind the scenes is pulling the strings. IF Mr. House is behind this, that means that something is his muscle pushing away the outsiders. House has money, protection, and most of all, Technology. This in my mind translates to NCR, Securitrons, Brotherhood of Steel. He has a huge target on his back for every thing he's got. The Hoover Dam Battle? Now House ALSO wants energy. What can a huge monopoly of futuristic ages can live with out energy? In the "House always wins" ending, it describes he pushed the Legion and NCR out of New Vegas. The whole area is his now.

Now we can refer to other factions according to the truth of my energy statement. The current "American Government", The Enclave is not spoken of much in New Vegas, because NCR and Legion prescenes is too strong. Hypothetically, in the future (Follow me here), The Enclave is the strongest current force against others in all of Post Apocalyptic America. House is a smart man, but never looked to the future, could never see out of his own desert, at the potential armies of Enclave flying in Vertibirds, Laser Gatlings, Power Armor, thousands of men. In a heartbeat, the Enclave can take New Vegas

On the other hand, this break from attacks have given House more time. He has Securitrons in mass production, revenue in casinos have increased due to laid off NCR soldiers. He could have a chance at defending New Vegas, but lots will be lost in the process. Either side, House or Enclave will have heavy casualties, then what? Humanity is destroyed, because the money house, i.e New Vegas is ruined. No more revenue means no more exchange of money between caravans and trade routes.

What do you all think of my hypothetical conclusion? Quote my post and I'll check out rebuttles and such

[Dog Killer]

I never thought house was evil, I guess some people are too stupid to read the text/dialouge and listen. Ceasar isn't evil either, while he is Crude and Dominant in his ways(perhaps even slightly sadistic), he actually does good, i.e burning nipton(really a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ town of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥), and killing off smaller bandit groups that terrorize innocent people. IF anyone ever paid attention at all, it's been said many times(by house even) that Ceasar helped bring order to new vegas.
Ceasar, if looked at in a bright way, is directly compareable to Joseph Stalin(Growth, production,Control)

[Dog Killer]

Mr house can't be evil; he is not really a human, I mean sure, he's alive in that chamber, but he's not living a pleasure life(well, maybe the satisfaction of bring new vegas to a brighter future) He has no personal motives, personal needs,wants,etc, he is almost a god like figure, he literally is doing what is best for humanity, He sees everything through the eyes of his robots,cameras,etc.
All that can be said is he is not trusting of humanity, and that he is the "take no prisoners" kind of person when making decisions, as he consults himself, and what is best for humanity as a whole, not looking at the outliers, but merely the greater good.

[Dog Killer]

Първоначално публикувано от Jean-Claude Gosh Darn:

The whole Karma thing never really made sense to begin with.

I still can't fathom why stealing from powder gangers (stealing explosives from powder gangers no less) is "bad karma." Or that it's considered as bad as stealing medical supplies from the FotA.

Stealing is bad, even if you think you're stealing from bad people, who are going to bad things. It is theirs/they possess it. Maybe it's good for them, perhaps you don't know their side of the story,etc. I'm going to assume(Maybe) that the karma loss is wieghted differently.
The explosives, aren't necessarily bad, they are objects and are Amoral, just as the supplies are objects, they can be used for good and for bad, but stealing nevertheless, is "Bad" to a measurable degree.
Karma also is more of a what goes around comes around, essentially the yin and yang, if you're stealing from someone, even if they're bad, you better hope someone bad doesn't steal it back.
Not trying to ream you out or be a nazi, but I can kind of make sense of it.

[Problem?]

*slow clapping* beautiful, finely someone else who understands.

[Problem?]

Първоначално публикувано от PurpleJuiceman:

Първоначално публикувано от Jean-Claude Gosh Darn:

The whole Karma thing never really made sense to begin with.

I still can't fathom why stealing from powder gangers (stealing explosives from powder gangers no less) is "bad karma." Or that it's considered as bad as stealing medical supplies from the FotA.

Stealing is bad, even if you think you're stealing from bad people, who are going to bad things. It is theirs/they possess it. Maybe it's good for them, perhaps you don't know their side of the story,etc. I'm going to assume(Maybe) that the karma loss is wieghted differently.
The explosives, aren't necessarily bad, they are objects and are Amoral, just as the supplies are objects, they can be used for good and for bad, but stealing nevertheless, is "Bad" to a measurable degree.
Karma also is more of a what goes around comes around, essentially the yin and yang, if you're stealing from someone, even if they're bad, you better hope someone bad doesn't steal it back.
Not trying to ream you out or be a nazi, but I can kind of make sense of it.

hes right, taking something that isnt yours, but was owned by someone who stole that object, is no better anyway, just my thoughts.