This will change how you view Mr. House

[WE WUZ KANGS N SHIEEET]

It's wrong to label Mr. House as evil.
Did you even pick apart his arguments and actions?

First thing in his favor is that he saved my ♥♥♥. He didn't need to do that. Really. My head had a new hole in it. I don't recall a single other Fallout 3 or NV character or faction to pull me out of my grave and put so much faith in me to fulfill their life-long dream.

Second thing is that he doesn't consider me a mercenary. I quote:
"I'm not offering you an incentive as crude as money - though there'll be plenty of that. What I'm offering you is a ground-floor opportunity in the most important enterprise on Earth. What I'm offering is a future - for you, and for what remains of the human race."

Just check out that vocabulary and demeanor! He's impeccable!

He's a visionary, he's a hopeful dreamer who got off his proverbial ♥♥♥ and actually does something for the future, not for the present. He sees and works for more than merely survival or control, he fights for progression, evolution, advancement; in his own words:
"Give me 20 years and I'll reignite the high technology development sectors. 50 years and I'll have people in orbit."

Those are his goals! Not territory control. Not being the ruler of the land.
Not invading other places. He's working for the people, for the human race:

That was what really changed my mind about him.

As for the popular choice, NCR, I finished my first play-through with them, but I'm not sure about my current run. I mean, I may follow the Dam battle with NCR after all, I wouldn't want to kill them all and they're clearly a better choice than the Legion. House could use their firepower against Caesar. But my loyalty lies with House. I think he should make the decisions.

I see corrupt governments every day everywhere. They're a plague to the human race.
It's a warfare based regime. Look at USA:

Did you know oil lobbyist persuaded the US Gov. to kill the electric car industry for over a century? Well we all know the US Gov. bailed out the corrupt bankers and put hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes, on their asses, bankrupt. Even as far back as the 1100's when the Arab society was seeing an immense intellectual and scientific uprising, "the powers that be" claimed math books are the work of the devil and that halted their progress by even a millennium and it's still ongoing. That's exactly what NCR promises. The rich corrupt interests safely guarded while the greater good is stomped on. They already would back the casino tribe's interests against that of House and you know this. It's already started!

What really caught my loyalty to the House is when he said:
"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows."
I did, I actually walked up to the windows of his penthouse and looked out. I was horrified. The quote "War, War Never Changes" struck me!
Anything that was still standing was because Robert Edwin House took out 68 of the 77 nuclear warheads heading for the city. Everything that was broken as far as I could see and beyond, all across the globe, was because of the divisive politics of the old world leaders, politics that NCR and the Legion still sustain.

Politicians will always be dirty, lying, hypocritical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. Put one in jail, 3 more rise up to take his place, his connections, his "benefits", his power and influence, and they almost always use it for personal gain rather than for the good of the people. And the young ones learn the crooked ropes really ♥♥♥♥ing fast, and they go further than their predecessors. I have worked with lawyers, prosecutors, judges, lawmakers, politicians, mayors. The righteous ones are opposed by the crooked system and removed if they don't mend. The ones that cede once, will always do it again, once their character breaks its shell and gets infected they have nothing stopping them from failing his or her own principles and values again and again and again, be it for self-interest, political/party interest, greed, blackmail or simple misguidance, with complete disregard to what's right to do.

They'll always get rich off of the poor and the sickly, off of the addicts and the meek, through dishonesty and mass manipulation. There are good people in NCR, of course, but then again there were some excellent gentlemen as Nazi officers and colonels in World War II, who were just following orders or those who have had nothing to do with the camps and gassing innocents.

At its core NCR is based on a divisive system, keeping the poor at the bottom and making the rich even richer, way above and beyond the purpose of law, promoting their ranks solely on namesake and affiliation rather than merit. Just like the B.O.S. they don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about collateral damage and "outsiders".

In relation to the Fiends or Great Khans, how are the NCR any different than the Enclave? I'll tell you how: they're weaker in numbers, technology and leadership coordination. I'm not saying I would ever side with the Enclave, but at least they didn't stretch so far as to condemn entire squadrons of their own men and entire towns (like in Nelson, Searchlight and Nipton) because of lack of manpower and equipment. They were more humane and intelligent than that.

One man can make a difference: one man with knowledge that stretches 261 years, with a scientific mind (father of RobCo Industries), with natural leadership (he's built the most successful corporation in his name and civilized the casino tribes), with an undenying genius in technology and economy and sheer force of will (he's looked 200 years for the platinum chip and never gave up on it).

And he's not a dictator figure. He doesn't care if people worship him. It's not his face on the Securitron's displays. He doesn't call in people to kneel before him and pray to him and praise him. He stays in all alone and watches patiently from above. He'd rather have the courier take all the glory and get all the praise. He just wants to put people back in their own homes, in schools and engineering colleges, in factories and on the moon.

The others don't impress me half as much as Mr. House does. Based on his own words:
"To your untrained eyes, it may look as though mankind is making a comeback. In the NCR, you have something that resembles a nation state. Savage as it is, in Caesar's Legion, you have an organized society. But neither of these offer a future. They're regurgitations of the past."
And they only lead to more war.

If you take Mr. House out of his stasis chamber, he will ask you why you have ruined his plans and he will react differently depending on what you tell him:
- If you say you did it in the name of the NCR, he will belittle them and call you a "sad, misguided ♥♥♥♥♥"
- If you tell him you are acting on behalf of Caesar, he will be horrified that slavery is humanity's future.
- If you say you did it for Yes Man, he will tell you your "vanity project" is doomed for failure.
- If you say it was just business, he will retort by saying that you should have worked for him for personal gain.
- Finally, if you say you did it just because you didn't like him, he will call you a fool for letting your feelings about him jeopardize humanity's future.

I never killed him, but I took that from his wikia page.

I feel that although he praises "dispassionate calculation" to reach success, a lot of his motivation is in the love for and faith in mankind. He's seen the horrors and managed the damage and he still believes people are worth saving, that they're smart enough to handle new technology and that under his leadership he'll prevent them from using it against each other.

Age and information brings wisdom, and though a lot of Ghouls have rotted their memories along with parts of their brain, his genial brain capacity is ever more extended through the use of his computers.

His obituary said:
"Lost forever is his bounty of knowledge concerning human longevity, the depth and breadth of which could, as he was apt to say, <fill several text books>. He was not exaggerating."

I think he really follows the goals of the DC Brotherhood of Steel of fighting the Good Fight, and when he seems like he's ready to kill anyone opposing him he's no different than the Knights were, all suited up and ready to battle. But he picked up the savages from the streets and gave them enterprises to run. That's the most important principle current politicians and those of NCR are forgetting - it's not about your own well-being, it's about the current and future generation's well-being.

Also I'd like to think I'll bring even more humanity to his method if I remain loyal to him.
Independently I wouldn't be able to manage what he does. By his side I could steer him away from unnecessary violence and "dispassionate calculations" that could bring possible negative outcomes, and I will appeal to his reason and intelligence, not to his greed or mercy. He would never cast out a good well formed argument without a better counter-argument and superior calculation. And he's not above appreciating humanity and compassion.

Yes, I lobby for Mr. House because not enough of you took the time to hear him out and envision his side of the story. Because you'd rather settle for what you know, although it's utterly broken, than to take into account the risks and rewards of an intelligent, capable, incorruptible mind set on not only ensuring the future, but making it better and brighter than before.

[R5CYA]

i know he's not evil. but i cannot stop myself from killing him after i see him!
he's a freak!

[warmed_over]

"`Scuse me, Nephi, but I need that for a second."
-Me, every game but that one.

[Incunabulum]

The Brotherhood has plans, the NCR has plans, Caesar has plans.

You know, they're schemers. Schemers trying to control their worlds. I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are.

It's the schemers that put us where we are. House was a schemer, he had plans, and uh, look where that got him. I just did what I do best. I took his little plan and I turned it on itself.

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by † βɑɭkɑɳ čɾʉšɑɗẹɾ †:

Because you'd rather settle for what you know, although it's utterly broken, than to take into account the risks and rewards of an intelligent, capable, incorruptible mind set on not only ensuring the future, but making it better and brighter than before.

*sigh*

If men were angels then there would be no need for government. If men were governed by angels there would be no need to limit government's power.

Unfortunately, men are men and governed by men. House is a man, with all a man's faults.

You're taking everything he says at face value - assuming that he's a) telling the truth and b) not deluded.

*I* never considered him 'evil'. Merely yet another technocrat that has a plan to usher in a utopia. These people tend to not *care* about the human cost of implementing their 'perfect plans'. Millions die and the 'Top Man' complains that he needs a new People.

So, no - I don't trust him to have complete control of even a single city-state (New vegas) let alone a nation the size of the NCR.

Don't get me wrong - I don't *trust* the NCR either. But at least they have some control of their government and its depradations are limited to the merely human scale.


I always prefer to go Wildcard - where New Vegas stays as an indepentent city-state, the Legion is pushed out into Arizona, and the NCR in CA is secure but always has to compete with New Vegas for its citizens - ie, if the NCR gets too oppressive, those people can always move to NV, acting as a balance to the NCR's tendency to 'join or die'.

[Oberon]

I don't consider House to be particularly evil. We never actually hear about atrocities he's committed, unlike NCR (Where we've had two whole games to see what they're willing to do) and the Legion. (Where you have to talk to literally any NPC to figure that one out)

That said, I trust him about as far as I can throw him. He's an ancient being kept alive by unnatural means, with a giant tower and an army of robots. His entire questline involves making his robot army larger and more powerful, and expanding his power to the entire region and everyone in it. he is one evil laugh away from being categorized as a supervillain.

[St. Haborym]

The Enclave tried to wipe out all of humanity save for themselves. That's not humane in the least.

[MassiveBallSack]

Ceasars legion was my first and only playthrough of NV. At first I hated them but by the end I realised they are the best choice, I won't go into detail why but speak to Ceaser himself and make sure he doesn't die! Only he can lead a proper dicatorship not that bad dog hes got as a general.

I would have followed mister house otherwise, I hate the idea of american democracy and the brotherhood.

[WizardsMilk]

Damn, no ones having discussions like this about Fallout 3's characters. Just saying.

[Onion]

Originally posted by SquidyInk:

Ceasars legion was my first and only playthrough of NV. At first I hated them but by the end I realised they are the best choice, I won't go into detail why but speak to Ceaser himself and make sure he doesn't die! Only he can lead a proper dicatorship not that bad dog hes got as a general.

I would have followed mister house otherwise, I hate the idea of american democracy and the brotherhood.

No matter how corrupt politics are or who started wars or how good ceasars intentions are.

Slavery is literary worst thing that ever happened to humanity. Many would consider (including me) daily humiliation, work without reward, life without any happiness worse than death.

Im not emotional person at all, but slavery is some sick ♥♥♥♥. Thats why nobody should help legion and justify it.

Other than that i helped legion too for RP purposes. But never tried to justify it :-x

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by Tenshi CZ:

Other than that i helped legion too for RP purposes. But never tried to justify it :-x

Oh yes, absolutely. Rule number one of RP is that you do what you character would do, not what you would do. Failing to make that distinction is what has contributed to countless Mary Sues in all RPG system since the genre's inception.

[Oberon]

Originally posted by † βɑɭkɑɳ čɾʉšɑɗẹɾ †:

how are the NCR any different than the Enclave?

The Enclave wants to wipe out all life on Earth, and has tried to do so twice with the use of FEV. I'm pretty sure the NCR isn't down with that sort of thing.

[Greenlazer]

Theres a catch too all 4 sides of the mojave. But house is actualy one of the WORST in my opinion. You have to remember what each one gains in this war and what each one will do with their treasure. House unfortunantly is just despratly gripping to his Las Vegas. He dosent want to save anyone. He dosent want to help humanity thrive. He wants what everyone in vegas wants: What YOU have. Hes basicly offering you the life time chance to swindle people out of possesions all their lives, but that will drain the mojave and leave the people poor and desprate. Freeside and Westside are examples of what will happen if house continues ruling.

Now you argue that they are better than NCR and Ceaser. Considering this game IS about what you consider the lesser of 4 evils I will buy that. NCR basicly want to "Rule". They want flags in the ground claiming ownership and they want people to follow their roles in a VERY vain attempt to revive america, when its clearly a losing battle and way too soon to do so. Ceaser is faring much better as the Legion better adapts to the wasteland. however it means a rougher life for everyone involved as people are just as likely to be turned into slaves or forced into military service. Whatever YOU want to do to the Mojave is up to YOU so you cant pick that apart.

[MassiveBallSack]

Guys if you do a playthrough of ceasers legion and just ask about etc you actualy find they don't just enslave eveybody, they tend to only do that to those they have to conquer through force. The places ceasers has conquered..umm west is it? well apparently they are just like civilized places that only have to offer tribute to ceaser otherwise they get on with life. This is further proven at the end of the playthrough, all the factions that joined ceasers legion were allowed to carry on living as they were, no enslavement or anything. even vegas it mentions nothing of enslavment only that they killed all who resisted (but if Ceaser dies basicaly bloodshed all over Vegas!)
Please do correct me if I am wrong:)

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by SquidyInk:

Guys if you do a playthrough of ceasers legion and just ask about etc you actualy find they don't just enslave eveybody, they tend to only do that to those they have to conquer through force. The places ceasers has conquered..umm west is it? well apparently they are just like civilized places that only have to offer tribute to ceaser otherwise they get on with life. This is further proven at the end of the playthrough, all the factions that joined ceasers legion were allowed to carry on living as they were, no enslavement or anything. even vegas it mentions nothing of enslavment only that they killed all who resisted (but if Ceaser dies basicaly bloodshed all over Vegas!)
Please do correct me if I am wrong:)

The Great Khans are "assimilated" in the same way that the other tribes were in that they had their identities removed and were reindocrtinated into the Legion mentality, ie slavery. The Fiends are simply wiped out. If the Kings are hostile to the NCR in Freeside they are given the "choice" to be assimilated like the Khans, but they refuse and are killed to the last man. Caesar isn't down with any vice whatsoever, so you can assume that the Vegas faction is wiped out or enslaved to the last; he isn't going to let gambling and drinking go on in his new capital. So, yeah, life in Legion Vegas ends up being pretty awful for just about everybody except for Caesar.

[MassiveBallSack]

"The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).
In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)"

That's from the wiki, sounds familiar I may have haerd it at somepoint in the game. Maybe Vegas istelf had a harsh time if Ceaser succeeds but I don't think the rest would.
This is really making me want to play this game now, and I will!:D