Endurance?

[nohelpforu]

Is there any way to increase endurance without going for intense training or finishing lonesome road?

I want to get it up for more implants but spending perks on intense training seems like a waste to me, many questss gives permanent stat raises, like at the end of old world blues where you get either +1 or +2 str as a perk, I'm wondering if theres something like that for END?

[Dosbilliam, Boring but Practical]

Nope. The perks from OWB also act as an equipment effect due to their interchangable nature, so they don't affect perk selection in any way.

[nohelpforu]

would rather not cheat, i feel like it cheapens the rest of the game

[bananabandana]

Not that comes to mind :( Your better off just pulling whatever you can out of charisma (unless you like that stuff) and balancing out the other specials at doc hendersons. That way you can usually reach a sufficient lvl for each special, given the implants, to achieve most of the fun perks...but you have to remember the game is about specialization. You have to give up a lot ahead of time when planning out your charactar build.

[Noodle]

Endurance is the only ability I start in the beginning with a 10 primarily because hit points go up at 5 hp/lvl regardless of what it is. All your HP are based on starting endurance. So if you raise it later, the endurance implant you get from usanagi really doesn't do anything except the minor change you'd get from addtional point toward skills. Fortunately, you can have one implant per endurance point, so every intense training you get does net you one more implant. So nothing directly wasted. My starting stats are s 5 p 5 e 10 c 1 i 9 a 5 l 5.

The only thing CHR affects is speech and barter, so all losses can be made up through skill points. I can get to Usanagi before level 4, sometimes lvl 3 for the last INT point. The reason I liked this distribution is because skill points (INT) gained each level and HP (END) gained in the beginning can never be recovered once you pass on the option. Just sayin'.

[ÄmJii]

Originally posted by Mark V:

Endurance is the only ability I start in the beginning with a 10 primarily because hit points go up at 5 hp/lvl regardless of what it is. All your HP are based on starting endurance. So if you raise it later, the endurance implant you get from usanagi really doesn't do anything except the minor change you'd get from addtional point toward skills.

Not entirely true, Endurance Implant does increase HP pool as it's considered base stat increase. You'll only need 9 END to get every implant, 10 END is wasteful.

As a sidenote, Radiation reduced END does NOT affect your HP pool. I've tested this extensively.

Originally posted by Mark V:

The only thing CHR affects is speech and barter, so all losses can be made up through skill points.

CHA also increases Companion Nerve, which in turn raises Damage Resistance & Bonus Damage by 5% per CHA. Try comparing two Couriers, one with 1 CHA and second with 10 CHA. You'll see the difference in follower's performance.

Originally posted by Mark V:

I can get to Usanagi before level 4, sometimes lvl 3 for the last INT point. The reason I liked this distribution is because skill points (INT) gained each level and HP (END) gained in the beginning can never be recovered once you pass on the option. Just sayin'.

INT is overrated, Educated + Comprehension is all you ever need. Why raise Lockpicking/Repair/Science/Speech/Medicine to 100 when you can increase them by 20 via Comprehension + skill magazine? That's 100 skill points "spared" right there, especially since Usanagi & The Followers stock up on Skill Magazines often.

And how many skill points do you REALLY need? Even with 14 skill points/level (INT 4 + Educated) I'm running out of ideas where to invest them around levels 16-22. I'd much rather have AP -perks and higher Crit chance than few more skill points early on.

[kaffekoppen]

Yep, INT is in fact by far the most overrated thing in the entire game. If you have all the DLCs (which you should) you can easily get all your skills to 100 even starting with a low int. My current character started with 3 and is close to maxing the important skills around level 20. Since I have Comprehension, I didn't need to max all of them. OWB also gives you glasses (and glasses make you smarter, obviously), a lab coat with +int and more mentats than you could ever need. So starting with 3 int I can even pass high int speech checks. See where I'm going with this?

Luck on the other hand is awesome because it boosts your crit chance and thereby your damage. How many other stats actually boost your damage?

[A New Player]

Originally posted by kaffekoppen:

Yep, INT is in fact by far the most overrated thing in the entire game. If you have all the DLCs (which you should) you can easily get all your skills to 100 even starting with a low int. My current character started with 3 and is close to maxing the important skills around level 20. Since I have Comprehension, I didn't need to max all of them. OWB also gives you glasses (and glasses make you smarter, obviously), a lab coat with +int and more mentats than you could ever need. So starting with 3 int I can even pass high int speech checks. See where I'm going with this?

Luck on the other hand is awesome because it boosts your crit chance and thereby your damage. How many other stats actually boost your damage?

Strength, and by extension, Perception.(Better aim)

[ÄmJii]

Originally posted by A New Player:

Originally posted by kaffekoppen:

Yep, INT is in fact by far the most overrated thing in the entire game. If you have all the DLCs (which you should) you can easily get all your skills to 100 even starting with a low int. My current character started with 3 and is close to maxing the important skills around level 20. Since I have Comprehension, I didn't need to max all of them. OWB also gives you glasses (and glasses make you smarter, obviously), a lab coat with +int and more mentats than you could ever need. So starting with 3 int I can even pass high int speech checks. See where I'm going with this?

Luck on the other hand is awesome because it boosts your crit chance and thereby your damage. How many other stats actually boost your damage?

Strength, and by extension, Perception.(Better aim)

STR only affects Melee Damage by 0.5/STR (not Unarmed) and PER doesn't improve aim, it merely increases your spotting radius (when red dots appear on your compass).

Try again.

[A New Player]

Originally posted by ÄmJii:

Originally posted by A New Player:

Strength, and by extension, Perception.(Better aim)

STR only affects Melee Damage by 0.5/STR (not Unarmed) and PER doesn't improve aim, it merely increases your spotting radius (when red dots appear on your compass).

Try again.

Perception reduces spread, which increases aim.
Strength increases melee damage, or is melee not considered an attack?

[kaffekoppen]

I don't think perception does that. I've seen no evidence that it has any such effect.

It factors into some skills, but those you can max anyway. The main reason to have perception is to get Better Criticals, which requires 6 (with implant). And yes, strength does increase melee damage a bit, but luck increases your damage for any weapon that can crit. There are no SPECIALs that increase ranged damage otherwise.

[Noodle]

At lvl 30 with INT 10 you'll have had 510 skill points vs. 435 with INT 5 (with Educated) and with END 10, you'll have 450 hp vs 300 with END 5.

After an implant, my LCK is 6 so I lose only 4% on critical to hit. There are so many ways to make up that, I just don't see that trade off. The difference between a PER 10 and a PER 6 would have to have a big benefit as well. Does it? I don't know. The math just didn't look appealing in my opinion.

I looked at CHR 10 (or 9 + Usanagi) going the companion route but who wants tough companions and a weak character?

Finally, if you're talking about making up lost skill points via the DLC, your're talking post LVL 30 to get the same benefit. That's a long wait.

[Legion]

The tooltips in the Vigor Tester at the start of the game are generally incorrect.

Perception, as a stat, is pretty terrible. The difference between PER1 and PER10 for detecting enemies is barely noticeable.
ED-E's perk is much more effective than any amount of extra perception, though you do need it for some decent perks.

Agi is pretty lame too. AP are only useful if you use VATS. VATS is for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who can't aim. Of course, the only saving grace are the perks that require it.

Luck, Endurance, and Int are typically the stats I invest in. STR is needed for melee builds if only for the perks, and is useful for heavy gunners as well. CHR really buffs up your companions and helps with some speech challenges but it's associated perks are pretty lame. LK could only give crit and it would still be better than other stats. END and INT both increase in value as you level, though you don't need INT 10 to max all skills.

[Noodle]

Originally posted by prometheus.mh:

Agi is pretty lame too. AP are only useful if you use VATS. VATS is for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who can't aim. Of course, the only saving grace are the perks that require it.

Ahh, someone makes sense. VATS is for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. And I see as I quote you, the word behind the hearts is the exact word I use. Try playing the game on Very Hard "no-die." With hardcore on.

I'm doing that right now. Can't play around with pretty stats at the end of the game. You need someone who can take the heat out of the gate.

[kaffekoppen]

Originally posted by Mark V:

At lvl 30 with INT 10 you'll have had 510 skill points vs. 435 with INT 5 (with Educated) and with END 10, you'll have 450 hp vs 300 with END 5.

It's all about Skilled, Comprehension and skill books. Me, I love collecting things, so getting skill points is easy regardless of INT. I have maxed all stats before starting with a low INT.

After an implant, my LCK is 6 so I lose only 4% on critical to hit.

The 4% is affected by crit multipliers. As I said above, it's the only SPECIAL that'll actually boost your damage across the board.

There's +luck gear, I'll give you that, so you may not need 10 luck to deal the best possible damage.

Gambling is also a big theme in this game. Have you tried gambling with 10 luck? It's hilarious.

There are so many ways to make up that, I just don't see that trade off. The difference between a PER 10 and a PER 6 would have to have a big benefit as well. Does it?

Not at all, PER is super useless outside of giving you access to perks, and even more so for those of use who love ED-E! The basic powergaming idea here is to start with 5 PER and get the implant so you can have Better Criticals.

I looked at CHR 10 (or 9 + Usanagi) going the companion route but who wants tough companions and a weak character?

I completely understand you here. I play with CHA 1 just because I want to focus completely on building the strongest character. I know this kind of makes my companions mules, but I'm OK with that. Actually, upgraded ED-E is still strong but they kind of went overboard with that.

Finally, if you're talking about making up lost skill points via the DLC, your're talking post LVL 30 to get the same benefit. That's a long wait.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. With the way I play the game (completionist), INT has very little benefit but END, STR and LUC are directly felt all the time. If you don't want to collect books so much or you want to roleplay a smart character, by all means get high INT. My current character started at 3 and got a pity discount for the INT implant :)

[Noodle]

Originally posted by kaffekoppen:

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. With the way I play the game (completionist), INT has very little benefit but END, STR and LUC are directly felt all the time. If you don't want to collect books so much or you want to roleplay a smart character, by all means get high INT. My current character started at 3 and got a pity discount for the INT implant :)

Try playing very hard, no-die. It's not the same game. I have only lately developed a completionist play style due to the fact you really need to find practically everything to play very hard, no-die. And because I'm playing (replaying) only the core map so as to not introduce OP'd weapons and gear into the equation, I really haven't found enough to compensate for the low intelligence route. The challenge is totally raw. Grantedl, I"ve only made it to lvl 21 so far, but this time, I'll have the quarry under my belt and I'm hoping that might be the hump to finishing NV with most of the quests completed on VHND. (Very Hard No-Die). They should make that into an actual term. I could get the credit.