Why doesn't anyone redo the roads or use the buildings for parts to redo others?

[crua9]

So I've been watching a ton of LP to research Fallout to see if it's for me. I found it's skyrim but at a society that is stuck in the 1950 with a fallout that happened. People are a hell lot more open about what they say than RL, and unlike RL you can wake people in their house and they will be OK with it, and this game seems to be one of those where you're the key to how part of the world will turn out (where as this wouldn't happen in RL).

What bugs me the most about this game is the roads. Why is no one trying to fix the roads or have them in working order? It seems like gov would really be trying for this since it would make things a hell lot easier and cheaper to move around. Because of this, I think it would be the higher thing on the list to get done.
(I'm not joking about this bugging me the most.)

On top of this, why is there so many broken down buildings. It would also seem smart to reuse parts from old buildings (like they do in RL)

I think this bugs me the most because you tend to see this the most during the game.

[Twelvefield]

The art director responsible for the look of the Fallout games up until New Vegas passed away a couple of years ago, so you're going to have to go to drastic measures to have the full answer to your question.

There is no more federal government, so the chain of industry that you would need to build proper roads doesn't exist. That, and if you tried, you'd get killed a lot. A lot.

Many buildings are broken down so you don't enter them, and that saves on resources for the game. Still, you've no doubt noticed that you are the most energetic person left alive in the world, not to mention the most ambitious. Everyone else can barely walk from the tavern to the toilet. You'd count on that mob to rebuild society? You know what, they don't even use the toilets, now that I think of it. They're that unmotivated.

Robots, you say, could rebuild everything. Oh, all hail our new robot overlords, I say.

Still, you are right as to the fact that you are the key character in the show. It's much worse in the Elder Scrolls games, Skyrim in particular. Part of the genre, I guess. Fortunately, we have Godzilla movies that feature everything but Godzilla and Mad Max movies that feature everything but Mad Max to show us the way.

[Ladez]

Originally posted by crua9:

So I've been watching a ton of LP to research Fallout to see if it's for me. I found it's skyrim but at a society that is stuck in the 1950 with a fallout that happened.

There are two kinds of Fallout; Old Fallout which includes the old games and New Vegas, and New Fallout which includes Fallout 3 and the upcoming Fallout 4. New Fallout is much like Skyrim in certain ways, but Old Fallout is nothing like it. Despite New Vegas using the same engine as Fallout 3 and featuring mostly the same kind of gameplay, lots of additions and variations in the formula makes it feel more like a classic RPG. Bethesda produces games that are intent on simulating their environments, but the Obsidian-produced New Vegas features many elements of abstraction. As a results, the experiences differ greatly and fans of both tend to engage in long-winded discussions about which they prefer.

As for the setting, it is retrofuturistic. It takes place in the future but draws inspiration from some elements of 50s culture, specifically how people thought the future would look like back then.

Originally posted by crua9:

People are a hell lot more open about what they say than RL, and unlike RL you can wake people in their house and they will be OK with it, and this game seems to be one of those where you're the key to how part of the world will turn out (where as this wouldn't happen in RL).

What you're describing here are typical RPG tropes. Characters sometimes behave unrealistically to serve gameplay and to provide exposition. If they behaved anywhere near as they'd do if they were real, I dare say that the game would suffer for it. Simulationists would probably argue with that, though.

Originally posted by crua9:

What bugs me the most about this game is the roads. Why is no one trying to fix the roads or have them in working order? It seems like gov would really be trying for this since it would make things a hell lot easier and cheaper to move around. Because of this, I think it would be the higher thing on the list to get done.
(I'm not joking about this bugging me the most.)

There's not really many vehicles around, even wheeled carriages seem to be rare, so I guess fixing the roads is not a high priority. Keep in mind that the Mojave Wasteland is basically a frontier where civilized society is only just getting around to re-establishing itself. I'd assume that the roads are in a better state in the Core Region, but I don't remember noticing that from my time with the old games.

Originally posted by crua9:

On top of this, why is there so many broken down buildings. It would also seem smart to reuse parts from old buildings (like they do in RL)

Initial blasts from the war, natural decay after 200 years without maintenance, damage from further conflicts throughout history as seen in Boulder City, and so on. You get the idea. There's also the fact that New Vegas re-uses a lot of assets from Fallout 3, which featured a much more ravaged Wasteland.

[The Sun Jester]

There aren't a lot of people with the power to rebuild everything unless it's important. Let's look at the four most powerful factions/people in the game.

Ceaser's legion only resides in a few places in the mojave, and is mounting an army for assualt, and for now rebuilding it isn't worth the time or effort.

NCR while large in numbers are spread thin and are having a hard time with legion, and without a ton of land vehicles don't really have a reason to rebuild. They're focused on more important restoration projects like Hoover Dam and Helios which provide a much needed power supply. For transporting supplies and troops they work on the monarail.

The Brotherhood of steel while they lack numbers here they certintly have the tech now how to fix things, but they have been driven into hiding by the NCR, and it isn't in their nature to help others with matters like constuction.

Mr. House and his robots have shown to be able to rebuild, evidence by New Vegas. I don't think he much cares to rebuild the rest of the wasteland moment though. He has his eyes on another prize he values much more, and is putting his resources into finding that. I won't tell you what it is because I don't want to spoil it incase you don't know.

Other less powerful groups don't have the people, knowledge, or resouces to focus on constuction. People are much more focused on finding food and water than rebuilding. Not to mention all the countless dangers that can lurk in buildings like wildlife, raiders, mutants, or worst of all deathclaws.

[crua9]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

There is no more federal government, so the chain of industry that you would need to build proper roads doesn't exist. That, and if you tried, you'd get killed a lot. A lot.

Originally posted by Ladez:

There's not really many vehicles around, even wheeled carriages seem to be rare, so I guess fixing the roads is not a high priority. Keep in mind that the Mohave Wasteland is basically a frontier where civilized society is only just getting around to re-establishing itself. I'd assume that the roads are in a better state in the Core Region, but I don't remember noticing that from my time with the old games.

.

As far as there not being a gov. In this game, you have the NCR which is basically like the gov. And like in RL (mid east and parts of Africa). Even if there is no gov or hardly one, the tribes and warlords tend to see roads as so much of a befit that they take some of the money they get from drugs and guns, and they put it in roads.

As far as there not being any cars or anything. Why is there no one making them? Cars maybe hard to make, but the parts and tools will be around if so much of the old world is. Even if they aren't, carts should be easy to make.
(At worst, I would be thinking the moving companies would do something about this since it would benefit them the most.

As far as dying a lot if you make the roads. If you think about it, that wouldn't be the case. The brotherhood hunts down things like deathclaws (I think Fallout 3), and have you ever asked why is there no big bad animals near the towns? I think it's the same reason as you don't really seen a load of bears or whatever in a middle of a city (sure it happens. But it may happen 1 time in 30 years with only 1 of whatever animal)

In fact, there is plenty of people that tame all the animals including the deathclaws.



Now I understand they may have done this for game reasons. But personally, it takes me out of the game. As soon as people could use the wheel, they have been. There is a reason for that

Originally posted by Ladez:

Initial blasts from the war, natural decay after 200 years without maintenance, damage from further conflicts throughout history as seen in Boulder City, and so on. You get the idea. There's also the fact that New Vegas re-uses a lot of assets from Fallout 3, which featured a much more ravaged Wasteland.

As far as the buildings. I'm not asking about the history, and I know it's just the game devs trying to make a setting for the story. But it makes no sense to have it where people make new buildings without recycling the old. And after 200 years.
This is what they do in RL to save on cost, and time making it or finding the raw materials to make it.

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

Still, you've no doubt noticed that you are the most energetic person left alive in the world, not to mention the most ambitious. Everyone else can barely walk from the tavern to the toilet. You'd count on that mob to rebuild society? You know what, they don't even use the toilets, now that I think of it. They're that unmotivated.

I'm not sure if you're playing the same game as I am. NCR is trying to take over the area and protect people. You have the crime guys trying to make their own thing. The brotherhood is trying to get tech and crap. Even the people are super happy when their stores are up and running, and sometimes even offer to help you or make you food. It seems like they are motivated.

In fact, if they were so unmotivated like you said. I think this game would've been a pure flop. With people having some motivation, it gives you something to do and a reason to care about them.

[Ladez]

Originally posted by crua9:

As far as there not being any cars or anything. Why is there no one making them? Cars maybe hard to make, but the parts and tools will be around if so much of the old world is. Even if they aren't, carts should be easy to make.
(At worst, I would be thinking the moving companies would do something about this since it would benefit them the most.

I don't know, that would be a question for the writers. As I said, I believe that the Mojave basically being the equivalent of the Wild West is a reasonable explanation for there not being any advanced infrastructure like that. Surely the Core Region would be more advanced by now.

Originally posted by crua9:

As far as the buildings. I'm not asking about the history, and I know it's just the game devs trying to make a setting for the story. But it makes no sense to have it where people make new buildings without recycling the old. And after 200 years.
This is what they do in RL to save on cost, and time making it or finding the raw materials to make it.

There are plenty of examples of people recycling stuff. For one thing, people in the Mojave are still living in the same buildings that were standing when the bombs fell. For another, places like Junktown were basically built from random pieces of junk. There are places like Shady Sands and Vault City that were built from scratch, but even they were relying on a form of recycling as they used the contents of their GECKs and their vaults to kickstart their communities.

[suchiuomizu]

Making cars isn't so simple, especially considering they are nuclear powered (the world ran out of oil before the war). Even in Fallout 2, where you can get a car, it is a repaired pre-war car and presumably that is not the easiest thing to do and many are probably beyond repair.

[Dusty]

If I remember right the NCR is trying to rebuild the railroads. That's what the inmates at NCRCF (powder gangers) and the crew at quarry junction were working on.
Road building isn't easy. They don't have asphalt. No petrochemicals to make it. Concrete making may be lost technology, we lost that for almost 1,000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire. The prewar roads are still there, just in disrepair. The pack brahmin don't seem to mind, and neither do the traders or travelers. It may not be economically viable to try and rebuild them with stone. You're talking about an underpopulated world that's just really starting to recover from a mass extinction caused by global nuclear war. Starvation and disease are common, water is scarce and often polluted. They really have more pressing concerns than landscaping or civic beautification.

[Bible Accurate Clown]

The New Vegas map is not under NCR control. They're just attempting to settle it. They are being constantly attacked by gangs, raiders, and the legion as well as the extreamly deadly wildlife and it's made very clear at the start that they don't have the resources to do even the simpliest things outside of trying to protect the dam.

They don't have the resources to protect their own supply routes they won't have the resources to build roads.


Not to mention the actual NCR territory is in the middle of a depression and resources are scarce at home too.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

The NCR has working regional rail back home. They're trying to fix up the rail in the Mojave, although not necessarily for the benefit of the inhabitants of the region. Having a functional rail network that extends to the Mojave would allow for troops and supplies to reach the front lines much faster and easier.

[Facelet]

people can't even defend them selves against people in roman armour so trying to make roads would be impossible (This is a joke)

[The Sun Jester]

Originally posted by crua9:

As far as there not being any cars or anything. Why is there no one making them? Cars maybe hard to make, but the parts and tools will be around if so much of the old world is. Even if they aren't, carts should be easy to make.
(At worst, I would be thinking the moving companies would do something about this since it would benefit them the most.

The cars in the game are nuclear powered, good luck making those. As for carts, yeah there are caravans around with cattle that hauls goods around. The animals they use are made for rugged terrain, and they usaully travel with well armed guards. Most of the things that could kill them are too tough for going faster on a road to make a differnce. Super mutants, deathclaws, cazadors, nightstalkers, and maybe some well armed bandits aren't going to be hinderd because your nice road

Originally posted by crua9:

As far as dying a lot if you make the roads. If you think about it, that wouldn't be the case. The brotherhood hunts down things like deathclaws (I think Fallout 3), and have you ever asked why is there no big bad animals near the towns? I think it's the same reason as you don't really seen a load of bears or whatever in a middle of a city (sure it happens. But it may happen 1 time in 30 years with only 1 of whatever animal)

In fact, there is plenty of people that tame all the animals including the deathclaws.

The Brotherhood is in hiding in this part of the wasteland, the NCR kicked their ass due to a number advantage. The Brotherhood is scared and aren't coming out of hiding anytime soon. The NCR can't protect their own settlements either, in Sloan they got overun by deathclaws, and you got to sort out the problem. What do you mean no big bad animals near towns? Towns have plenty of problems! The tutorial quest in Goodsprings you see a chick getting mauled by Geckos, and the town gets attacked by a gang not long after. Primm is overun with convicts, Novac has a ghoul problem, Nipton got wiped out by Legion, and tons of other problems are everywhere else. Pretty much everywhere you go, someone needs your help because they got problems. If everyone had their ♥♥♥♥ together you wouldn't be needed in this game.

Originally posted by crua9:

As far as the buildings. I'm not asking about the history, and I know it's just the game devs trying to make a setting for the story. But it makes no sense to have it where people make new buildings without recycling the old. And after 200 years.
This is what they do in RL to save on cost, and time making it or finding the raw materials to make it.

Even if it is still cheaper to use the old buildings that are rubble it's still hard. You need the tools and manpower. Most of which like sledghammers are being used for weapons. Robots need someone who knows how to program them, and they still need to be fixed from time to time. The big groups with the manpower and tools are focused on other things like the monorail line or pre-war artifacts.

[Rabob]

Originally posted by Dusty:

If I remember right the NCR is trying to rebuild the railroads. That's what the inmates at NCRCF (powder gangers) and the crew at quarry junction were working on.
Road building isn't easy. They don't have asphalt. No petrochemicals to make it. Concrete making may be lost technology, we lost that for almost 1,000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire. The prewar roads are still there, just in disrepair. The pack brahmin don't seem to mind, and neither do the traders or travelers. It may not be economically viable to try and rebuild them with stone. You're talking about an underpopulated world that's just really starting to recover from a mass extinction caused by global nuclear war. Starvation and disease are common, water is scarce and often polluted. They really have more pressing concerns than landscaping or civic beautification.

But the NCR gets concrete from Sloan right? That was, until the deathclaws moved in at least.

Also another thing is that most towns have their own "government". Primm can be non-NCR, Goodsprings as well, Nipton is normally wiped out, Novac is neutral as well, 188 Trading post the same. So between the strip and the Mojave Outpost there is not much of NCR interest that would need a road. There is Helios one, but they have mr. Fantastic who wont do anything usefull. Another thing that is not mentioned is that most people might actually be very uneducated. I would not be surprised if most people could not read. There are a few schools but most are empty,

Regarding cars, the explanation that they are nuclear makes a lot of sense. If you still want cars there are mods for that.
The empty buildings was in a lot of cases done to increase performance. The game is quite some years old now, so if you want more I recommend adding buildings with mods (Like the trade center)

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by The Moon Cheese:

Originally posted by crua9:

As far as there not being any cars or anything. Why is there no one making them? Cars maybe hard to make, but the parts and tools will be around if so much of the old world is. Even if they aren't, carts should be easy to make.
(At worst, I would be thinking the moving companies would do something about this since it would benefit them the most.

The cars in the game are nuclear powered, good luck making those. As for carts, yeah there are caravans around with cattle that hauls goods around. The animals they use are made for rugged terrain, and they usaully travel with well armed guards. Most of the things that could kill them are too tough for going faster on a road to make a differnce. Super mutants, deathclaws, cazadors, nightstalkers, and maybe some well armed bandits aren't going to be hinderd because your nice road

Well, super mutants really aren't much of a problem. Humans are far more dangerous to super mutants than they are to humans.

The Brotherhood is in hiding in this part of the wasteland, the NCR kicked their ass due to a number advantage. The Brotherhood is scared and aren't coming out of hiding anytime soon. The NCR can't protect their own settlements either, in Sloan they got overun by deathclaws, and you got to sort out the problem. What do you mean no big bad animals near towns? Towns have plenty of problems! The tutorial quest in Goodsprings you see a chick getting mauled by Geckos, and the town gets attacked by a gang not long after. Primm is overun with convicts, Novac has a ghoul problem, Nipton got wiped out by Legion, and tons of other problems everywhere else. Pretty much everywhere you go, someone needs your help because they got problems. If everyone had their ♥♥♥♥ together you wouldn't be needed in this game.

To be fair, those convicts aren't a typical local problem. They're a side effect of the NCR's efforts in the region; designed to show that the matters of the Mojave are a bit more complicated than good and evil.

Even if it is still cheaper to use the old buildings that are rubble it's still hard. You need the tools and manpower. Most of which like sledghammers are being used for weapons. Robots need someone who knows how to program them, and they still need to be fixed from time to time. The big groups with the manpower and tools are focused on other things like the monorail line or pre-war artifacts.

It is a problem of resources, not threat. Society is back on its feet, and with it comes the age old problem of the wealthy and powerful hoarding the most resources.

[red255]

why don't they at least clean up the skeletons?

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

Originally posted by red255:

why don't they at least clean up the skeletons?

They do in the livable areas. The Bison Steve is interesting in that there are such skeletons in the rooms. Lets on that perhaps Primm is a bit more seedy than they would present themselves.