Ulysses' words don't make sense

[Mathmancer]

I can see how any one can form a good or bad opinion about anything else in the Lonesome road DLC, but when Ulysses speaks, I can't help but think he's stoned. It's all just rambling nonsense.

SOME TIMES I can glean some details. Like he used to be a Caesar Legion Guy, and I (the courier) apparently spent a lot of time doing supply runs for a little town, that was also named the divide, and caused that town to prosper for a time until I delivered a mysterious doom package with a voice that Ulysses refuses to describe in any concrete terms (and I also have no memory of supporting that town with those supply runs, or of causing it's annihilation). But most of the time his words don't make any sense. He's always alluding to stuff that the courier couldn't know about. He's always substituting the names of all of the people and factions and places with names that only he uses. He's always presenting these "deep" philosophical conclusions without any of the reasoning that lead to those conclusions (and he expects you to take it all for granted and agree with him too). And he tries to answer (or not answer) all of your questions or requests for clarification in the most obfuscated way, or as some witty retort that apparently puts me in my place but doesn't make sense.

But you're not aloud to ask him questions that would shut him up. Like he blames the courier for delivering the doom-thing to the Divide... but he doesn't blame the people who paid the courier to do it? Or the people who activated it when it was delivered? Does he think about how some OTHER courier would have been hired to take the doom-thing to the divide if Courier 6 didn't? That's exactly what happened when Ulysses refused to deliver the platinum chip. Another Courier delivered it instead. Or why does Ulysses define "home" so loosely that home is little else other than a synonym for "destination"? And he's always talking about how he apparently followed you to all of these places and watched you do all of these things... but he had never met us and he'd only heard of us? So which is it? Did he stalk us and see us do all of these things, or didn't he?

[Delta 1038]

Yeah, Ulysses is a... divisive character. You know the love/hate no middle ground sort of thing. His presentation (The "in your face thing) makes a bit more sense when you realise that he is Avellone's avatar. Of course I'm very biased against Ulysses and my head is ringing right now.

[Dosbilliam, Boring but Practical]

Originally posted by Delta 1038:

His presentation (The "in your face thing) makes a bit more sense when you realise that he is Avellone's avatar.

This. It becomes a lot easier to grasp when you realize the entire point of Ulysses is to highlight all the flaws of this particular setup; main character with amnesia becomes a rather important figure in the political landscape, when before he was known to at least one faction and had a fairly decent reputation, sort of like Kreia's piss-taking role in KotOR 2.

[Mathmancer]

I had to google who Avellone was. I had a vague inkling that Ulysses was asking some meta questions, but now that I know he's suppose to be the game designers voice it DOES make a bit more sense. While it makes more sense it doesn't make it better. I think it just shows how poorly written the lines for Ulysses are. If he was well written, I feel it would be clear what all of the meta-game themes and ideas were, and that the questions were being directed at the PLAYER and not the Courier. But you can see how it comes off to some one who didn't know that in my first post. It comes off as the poorly written insane blather of some doofus you'd see in any JRP.

And it opens up a larger can of worms. If we're going to get all meta, then doesn't the YesMan actually have just as much impact as the Courier? Just by talking to YesMan, factions that aren't even aware of the Platinum Chip or YesMans existence seem to flip their opinions of you. Just by talking to him. Without agreeing to, or deciding on or doing anything! (this always bothered me. Without prior knowledge, you really aren't presented with a choice. You either encounter YesMan, or you don't, and the fate of whole societies is instantly determined! So instead of your actions or decisions actually determining the game ending, an extremely arbitrary event that only two people in the entire game are even aware of does.) Even in the context of the narrative, YesMan is arguably more important than the Courier. If Benny wasn't able to create YesMan, the Courier probably wouldn't have been shot and robbed (Benny would have no need for the Chip). Even Still, if some OTHER McGuffin was robbed from the Courier, at most the Courier would be the proxy of Mr.House, the NCR, or the Legion. YesMan enables the Courier to do much much more (and I know I probably spoiled a lot already, but I don't want to go into more detail than that since it would likely spoil more).

And they put so much emphasis on the importance of the player character and how every little thing the player character does has these vast sweeping impacts on th world around them. But since we're getting all meta, the player only ever has the impact they are alloud to have! New Vegas, for example, has alternate endings. But Fallout3 doesn't! Being the same game engine, and the same setting and IP, this just shows that the player only has the powers that the game devs give them! I might be able to nuke Megaton, or decide between NCR or Legion, but no matter how many super mutants in FO3 or fiends in NV I kill they all respawn. I can't rid the waste land of THOSE enemies.

Similarly, Lonesome Road is even more anviliciously railroading you. From the linear area design right down to the choices. Your past is fixed to what the game devs wanted it to be. No matter what you do, just by playing as the Courier you've automatically destroyed the divide years before the game began even though you didn't know it. And no matter what choices or actions you take AFTER the game starts, you can't convince Ulysses of... anything. The only talking npc other than Ed-E can't be swayed or influenced by the player. In the context of the game, if your Courier is a good guy then all he can do is say "Sorry. I didn't mean for your entire society in the Divide to be annihilated. I was just delivering goods like I always do." But OUT OF CHARACTER pretty much all you can do is say "Get Bent!" You have no other course of action left to you. The game devs left no choice or action that will change the outcomes or make your character not the bad guy, and you have no other outlet other than shouting at your display or writing on internet forums (how's THAT for a meta conclusion?). So in the very story arch that tries to deconstruct the concept of an empowered player character with vast influence and decides the fate of people he never even learns of... you have no power and can only decide the fate of a single person.

[Dosbilliam, Boring but Practical]

Originally posted by Charnobyl (shiver):

Your past is fixed to what the game devs wanted it to be. No matter what you do, just by playing as the Courier you've automatically destroyed the divide years before the game began even though you didn't know it.

Which is the point; most amnesiac characters interact with the world as if they'd just spawned into existence. This isn't a game where you can be whatever you want to be, and therefore end up being nothing. Your role and your past are clear and set, regardless of what you want, which symbolizes your inability to change your own past, regardless of your desire to.

Also,

Originally posted by Charnobyl (shiver):

you have no power and can only decide the fate of a single person.

Which is incorrect. You can always leave, if you missed all the graffiti on the walls saying "you can go home, Courier." You also decide the fate of a large number of people at the end, entirely without them knowing about it at the time.

Make sure you've actually finished the DLC before making any judgment call on the characters within, since the end of it negates at least half of what you're saying.

[the nefarious crook]

Honestly, I understood him pretty well (I think)

[Ace]

Obsidishit writing for you ...

[the nefarious crook]

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Obsidishit writing for you ...

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ even starbug stopped doing this why won't you quit

[Ace]

Originally posted by J J Frunkington:

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Obsidishit writing for you ...

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ even starbug stopped doing this why won't you quit

Is my name StarBug? No?

Also: What are you referring to as "this".

[Dosbilliam, Boring but Practical]

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Originally posted by J J Frunkington:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ even starbug stopped doing this why won't you quit

Is my name StarBug? No?

Also: What are you referring to as "this".

Being a generally salty ♥♥♥♥ because you lack the intelligence to understand what makes writing good or bad?

[the nefarious crook]

Originally posted by Dosbilliam, 200% Ultra-Bitter:

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Is my name StarBug? No?

Also: What are you referring to as "this".

Being a generally salty ♥♥♥♥ because you lack the intelligence to understand what makes writing good or bad?

or trolling
you could just have said trolling
(baiting works too)

[Starbug]

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Originally posted by J J Frunkington:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ even starbug stopped doing this why won't you quit

Is my name StarBug? No?

Also: What are you referring to as "this".

Yo m8 sorry to see you experiencing problems with getting called a troll for not hayting the correct corporation.

[Dosbilliam, Boring but Practical]

Originally posted by Starbug:

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Is my name StarBug? No?

Also: What are you referring to as "this".

Yo m8 sorry to see you experiencing problems with getting called a troll for not hayting the correct corporation.

...and what little respect I had for you is gone now, since you keep thinking it's from the same cause when that cause doesn't actually exist and even if it did, it wouldn't be the source of anything you assume it would.

[the nefarious crook]

Originally posted by Starbug:

Originally posted by Sgt. Ace:

Is my name StarBug? No?

Also: What are you referring to as "this".

Yo m8 sorry to see you experiencing problems with getting called a troll for not hayting the correct corporation.

Hate on Obsidian all you want, that's not the problem.
The problem is doing it with no evidence or being really aggresive about it.

[Vassago Rain]

Chris Avellone. Master of ruining interesting setups.

Glad he was finally fired.

[Dosbilliam, Boring but Practical]

Originally posted by Vassago Rain:

Glad he was finally fired.

He quit, as I recall...