This Game is Overrated

[Haiku's Knife]

Aside from the relatively above average story and degree of player choice, Fallout New Vegas does not succeed in unifying all of its gameplay elements into a cohesive whole. The game itself is mediocre in every area except for immersion.

-Combat is objectively horrendous. Enemies are forced to be bullet sponges at higher levels because the game has no way of inducing difficulty beyond health and damage scaling. Compare the AI of this game to the much earlier Halo: CE. If you throw a grenade at enemies in Fallout New Vegas, they will sometimes walk into it, whereas in the very first Halo, many years earlier, the AI reacts accordingly and flees. The gunplay is also lacking with no feeling of impact or strategy. It is as rudimentary as can be and is on par or even worse with Goldeneye or Perfect Dark from the N64. Melee is only a step above Morrowind due to better animations. Stealth, just like in any Bethesda game is a broken joke. Again, the AI is horrendous and it's easy to break the game with the right builds. Any game that has ever had stealth does stealth better than any Fallout game. Combat is a mess and mods can't fix it because the game is not designed around combat. It is a tacked on afterthought and the implementation VATS in the first person is a continuing admission of this.

-Exploration is overrated because Obsidian's world design simply isn't that good. Unlike games with cohesive worlds, that continually push and pull on the player through dedicated area and level design, Fallout NV is a flat sandbox filled with vast swaths of disinterest, broken up by occasional segments of the aforementioned mediocre combat or unique encounters. You don't explore the world of Fallout NV, you explore map markers because the "world" itself is disjointed. Contrast this to games like BioShock, Resident Evil, Mario64, Dark Souls, Prey and so on where the game world is a constant friend and foe of the player and the environment is synchronized with the gameplay.

-Elaborating on the above point, Fallout NV has no good interior environments, aesthetically or design-wise. The small amount of charm of exploration on the surface disappears in interior environments because they aren't really levels, but a series of bland hallways filled with more horrendous combat. The interior locations do not offer any interesting exploration, tension or quality encounters because the game does not have the elements to support them, along with their mediocre design.

-The story itself is also very overrated. A good example of this is the very beginning where you are to choose between siding with Goodsprings or taking it over with the Powder Gangers. The problem is that there is no real reason to side with the Powder Gangers. Goodsprings saved your life. You as a player already have a utilitarian and personal connection to Goodsprings and a passable reward isn't really incentive enough to betray it. It's only a single degree in stupidity below the infamous quest to blow up Megaton in Fallout 3. The rest of the factions and characters are mere caricatures: the NCR is just a generic continuation of the US; Caesar's Legion are yawn inducing Roman larpers; Mr. House is an edgy libertarian and so on and so forth. It's all very kitschy and while it works for the world, it doesn't stand in merit on its own and is simple parody. Certainly not "genius" by any stretch of the imagination, as it is often described as.

-The environment is pretty bland and isn't worth exploring. Even Fallout 3 tended to have superior environmental story telling and areas of interest, along with better environmental design. I'd also like to clarify this isn't a matter of graphics because it's not. The Pitt for example, was a great example of an immersive, fascinating and aesthetically striking environment that nothing in Fallout NV comes close to touching. Even traipsing around in the ruins of DC had far more player engagement than anything within NV and this is not a matter of "it's the desert, hurr". It's a videogame. You can do whatever you need to make the environment interesting while still respecting the location of the game. Obsidian merely didn't have this vision.

The rest of NV's issues are relatively minor, but the fact is that NV is objectively not a good game; it's a bad game with a decent story. If you don't get an ego-erection from simply DoiNg WhAtEvEr YoU WaNt and dictating the lives of wastelanders, it's easy to lose interest with NV because it has little else to offer besides self-insertion. The people that overrate it do so because they're not interested in gameplay; they want an interactive movie where they can be empowered through decision making and escapism. Without the rose tinted glasses on, it's easy to see that NV is woefully inadequate outside of making dialogue choices and crossing off map markers. It's an objectively overrated game and does not deserve even a fraction of the praise it receives from its fanboy cult.

Extrapolate your opinions.

[Alienslayer2406]

Nice bait, bump.

[Haiku's Knife]

Originally posted by Alienslayer2406:

Nice bait, bump.

It's not bait. I'm being honest. What does NV do well besides helping people self insert? Is it a good shooter game? No. A good survival game? No. Does it have a cool environment? No. Cool characters? No. Good exploration? Not really, because there's not much interesting to discover. There's nothing there besides the dopamine hit when you guide the story one way or another and the story isn't anything special. People that kiss this game's ass are just easily impressed or something. Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about the world building if the gameplay sucks?

[Alienslayer2406]

Originally posted by 3Kast3ly3:

Originally posted by Alienslayer2406:

Nice bait, bump.

It's not bait. I'm being honest. What does NV do well besides helping people self insert? Is it a good shooter game? No. A good survival game? No. Does it have a cool environment? No. Cool characters? No. Good exploration? Not really, because there's not much interesting to discover. There's nothing there besides the dopamine hit when you guide the story one way or another and the story isn't anything special. People that kiss this game's ass are just easily impressed or something. Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about the world building if the gameplay sucks?

To each their own, I guess. Have you tried STALKER? From what you're saying here, you might like it more than Fallout.

[Haiku's Knife]

Originally posted by Alienslayer2406:

Originally posted by 3Kast3ly3:

It's not bait. I'm being honest. What does NV do well besides helping people self insert? Is it a good shooter game? No. A good survival game? No. Does it have a cool environment? No. Cool characters? No. Good exploration? Not really, because there's not much interesting to discover. There's nothing there besides the dopamine hit when you guide the story one way or another and the story isn't anything special. People that kiss this game's ass are just easily impressed or something. Who gives a ♥♥♥♥ about the world building if the gameplay sucks?

To each their own, I guess. Have you tried STALKER? From what you're saying here, you might like it more than Fallout.

I plan on starting it in the near future. Just from watching, I can tell that I will enjoy it, I think. A lot of Western RPG's just don't cut it for me, anymore. I can work with a below par story, but the gameplay has to be star of the show.

[Mechenyi]

None of what you said is true

[Anthony]

You forgot to mention the game is super bugged as well, its so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. I cant even complete a main quest now because a dialogue box is missing for the person im supposed to talk to. The bugs just absolutely ruined the game for me.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

I agree most of your opinion, but just for the record, what game you consider has better story than NV, within RPG genre of course.

[Haiku's Knife]

Originally posted by Mechenyi:

None of what you said is true

Why not? The game really has no strong points besides self insertion, unless you can list otherwise.

Originally posted by Parvet:

You forgot to mention the game is super bugged as well, its so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. I cant even complete a main quest now because a dialogue box is missing for the person im supposed to talk to. The bugs just absolutely ruined the game for me.

Oh yeah, lol, but they're so intrinsic to the Fallout experience, I almost forget they exist (until they rear their head).

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

I agree most of your opinion, but just for the record, what game you consider has better story than NV, within RPG genre of course.

Honestly, I would say things like Final Fantasy 7 and 8 off the top of my head. I don't really care that I can't pick the narrative of the story; I like the substance, style and emotion of them, along with the aesthetic and musical package. Something else I would name is Dark Souls. I don't mind a minimalistic or ambiguous story. That was something I really liked about DS, is that the environment, exploration and story are bound to each other and makes both more meaningful. In NV, you mostly explore to go to the next quest giver and listen to their spiel, whereas in DS, the environment is the story itself. Honestly, I just hate ♥♥♥♥ like Mass Effect, KOTOR, TES and the Fallout games that try to pass themselves off like some Hollywood production.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by 3Kast3ly3:

Honestly, I would say things like Final Fantasy 7 and 8 off the top of my head. I don't really care that I can't pick the narrative of the story; I like the substance, style and emotion of them, along with the aesthetic and musical package. Something else I would name is Dark Souls. I don't mind a minimalistic or ambiguous story. That was something I really liked about DS, is that the environment, exploration and story are bound to each other and makes both more meaningful. In NV, you mostly explore to go to the next quest giver and listen to their spiel, whereas in DS, the environment is the story itself. Honestly, I just hate ♥♥♥♥ like Mass Effect, KOTOR, TES and the Fallout games that try to pass themselves off like some Hollywood production.

Ah I see.

These are fantastic games, but not RPG in its proper form.

I'd recommend you to play other cRPG games, but since you listed KOTOR on the list, perhaps cRPG isn't for you.

Mayhap you find other game more to your liking.

[Haiku's Knife]

Originally posted by RACHMANOVSKI:

Originally posted by 3Kast3ly3:

Honestly, I would say things like Final Fantasy 7 and 8 off the top of my head. I don't really care that I can't pick the narrative of the story; I like the substance, style and emotion of them, along with the aesthetic and musical package. Something else I would name is Dark Souls. I don't mind a minimalistic or ambiguous story. That was something I really liked about DS, is that the environment, exploration and story are bound to each other and makes both more meaningful. In NV, you mostly explore to go to the next quest giver and listen to their spiel, whereas in DS, the environment is the story itself. Honestly, I just hate ♥♥♥♥ like Mass Effect, KOTOR, TES and the Fallout games that try to pass themselves off like some Hollywood production.

Ah I see.

These are fantastic games, but not RPG in its proper form.

I'd recommend you to play other cRPG games, but since you listed KOTOR on the list, perhaps cRPG isn't for you.

Mayhap you find other game more to your liking.

The funny thing is that I'm a TTRPG player. I love the roleplaying that comes with a complete coupling of your imagination. Anything in a videogame is just a limitation of that potential to me, at least that's how I feel when I play Western RPG's - they're more in depth on the "RP", but they lack in the "G". The opposite is true for non-Western RPG's for me. The "RP" isn't as accentuated, but the "G" is very well developed and that's what matters to me if I'm not tabletopping. The thing is that I also have no problem roleplaying through gameplay. Let's say I make a slow, heavy guy in DS. That feels so much different than a mage or a finesse guy. It literally feels different, plays different and you approach everything differently. It's a head to toe immersion. In Fallout games, whether you play a brawler, shooter or sneaker, it just doesn't have the same differentiated impact that you can feel. I used to like KOTOR, but it's the same issue; focus too much on story and the gameplay suffers and that's how all the Western RPG's seem to be.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by 3Kast3ly3:

The funny thing is that I'm a TTRPG player. I love the roleplaying that comes with a complete coupling of your imagination. Anything in a videogame is just a limitation of that potential to me, at least that's how I feel when I play Western RPG's - they're more in depth on the "RP", but they lack in the "G". The opposite is true for non-Western RPG's for me. The "RP" isn't as accentuated, but the "G" is very well developed and that's what matters to me if I'm not tabletopping. The thing is that I also have no problem roleplaying through gameplay. Let's say I make a slow, heavy guy in DS. That feels so much different than a mage or a finesse guy. It literally feels different, plays different and you approach everything differently. It's a head to toe immersion. In Fallout games, whether you play a brawler, shooter or sneaker, it just doesn't have the same differentiated impact that you can feel. I used to like KOTOR, but it's the same issue; focus too much on story and the gameplay suffers and that's how all the Western RPG's seem to be.

I think that's the main dish of cRPG, the story and how your character can navigate the story not just through combat.

I personally never play DS or Souls-like, the lack of Dialogue or narrative control isn't for me.

If you're willing to try, title like Disco Elysium could be fun for pure dialogue based cRPG. See that maybe DE have more interesting story than New Vegas.

[Jnc]

Originally posted by 3Kast3ly3:

I liked NV when I was younger, but I just don't understand the appeal nowadays. When you examine the game itself, the main draw is just wandering around and playing God within the story. I've played NV on every console and PC, with and without mods and I was considering another play through when I realized I had outgrown this lame ♥♥♥♥.

Honestly, the story just isn't that good and neither are the characters. I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about the NCR, Mr. House, the Legion and so on. So what, I can wander around and explore? It's not that interesting. It doesn't have anywhere near the aesthetic appeal or tension of games like BioShock and Resident Evil where exploring is an immediate, visceral part of the experience and filled with interesting environments to take in. These dialogue choice games like NV are pretty cheap because they don't have to actually be good; they just have to stroke the player's ego in making choices that empower their sense of self. It's a petty form of escapism and there's not much gaming substance under the hood. Everything can be improved upon with mods, but it's still just not interesting. I say NV is overrated because it's more like a playable movie than an actual game (I even like visual novel "games", though) and it leaves a lot to be desired and doesn't deserve any of the veneration it's received.

Let's hear your opinions.

Concerning the exploration in this game: i found it to be pretty enjoyable, even some years after trying the game for the first time, sure, Fallout 3 has much more locations and a bigger map but the dungeons of New Vegas are more interesting albeit less numerous, besides, New Vegas has much more going for it in terms of roleplaying, you get a much larger arsenal of weapons of all sorts, more perks, a higher level cap(50 with all DLCs), the newly-added survival skill, the expanded repair skill and the different types of ammo and craftable items at the player's disposal. Not as much of a "playable movie", in fact this game is one of the gamiest games out there with the player's freedom to explore the map as they choose, roleplaying elements, and silly over-the-top ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ the game gets up to.
That being said, what are bad things about Fallout New Vegas?
It's an insufferably buggy mess that barely runs well even with mods that aim to fix the glitches and bugs the game suffers from, and let's not forget Lonesome Road, the DLC in which the game decides to become a linear ps3/xbox360-era cover shooter.

PS
Have you played the older fixed perspective Resident Evil games?
They are a sort of "playable movie" with their beautiful visuals, lack of HUD, fixed camera, and emphasis on immersing the player within the spooky mansion/laboratory interiors, and i love them for that.

PPS
Bioshock is a diluted System Shock 2, not saying Bioshock is a bad game, but System Shock 2 is a much better game if you're looking for an immersive sim.

[Khloros]

FONV is the best fallout game in the series since it stays far more true to the original fallout story lines and themes.

FONV is much darker, griddier, and sprinkled with the appropriate amount of fallout silliness that was there in the original 1 and 2. Its also one of the only fallouts of the FPS kind that really allow you to play a WIDE rage of builds beyond either power armor or sneak. Things like Low int builds altering dialog, Melee being viable, the power of speech skill in this game, all things that are akin to the OG fallout series.

The environment is much more like the original fallouts, the tech level is appropriate as well.

The story itself as well is hands down the best fallout story we have had since 2, offering factions that really no matter what your character alignment is, they all make valid points and can be seen no so simply as black and white evil and good.

A lot of people had the opinion of "FONV is over rated and not good." But those same people also usually never played 1 and 2 before they played 3. Fallout 3 was a good game, it just drifted quite far from some of the original fallout themes.

Now that said, i do/did enjoy a lot of the locations in fallout 3 more, at least in the overworld, simply because i have a soft spot for picking through broken urban ruins, thats not to say the wide open dead expanse of the Mojave is bad.

[RACHMANOVSKI]

Originally posted by Khloros:

FONV is the best fallout game in the series since it stays far more true to the original fallout story lines and themes.

FONV is much darker, griddier, and sprinkled with the appropriate amount of fallout silliness that was there in the original 1 and 2. Its also one of the only fallouts of the FPS kind that really allow you to play a WIDE rage of builds beyond either power armor or sneak. Things like Low int builds altering dialog, Melee being viable, the power of speech skill in this game, all things that are akin to the OG fallout series.

The environment is much more like the original fallouts, the tech level is appropriate as well.

The story itself as well is hands down the best fallout story we have had since 2, offering factions that really no matter what your character alignment is, they all make valid points and can be seen no so simply as black and white evil and good.

A lot of people had the opinion of "FONV is over rated and not good." But those same people also usually never played 1 and 2 before they played 3. Fallout 3 was a good game, it just drifted quite far from some of the original fallout themes.

Now that said, i do/did enjoy a lot of the locations in fallout 3 more, at least in the overworld, simply because i have a soft spot for picking through broken urban ruins, thats not to say the wide open dead expanse of the Mojave is bad.

It is kinda over rated.

It's fantastic for someone who only known FPS games.

Obsidian/Josh made better RPG called Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2.

[Khloros]

Nah, its perfectly rated, FONV also has i would say the best DLC in the series.
With the only "bad' ones, and i use the term 'bad' only in the sense that out of all of them it came in last in my opinion, was Old World blues. Every other DLC had great story content, interesting characters and interesting decisions you could make and best of all, every single DLC linked together to lead up to the final DLC.

In terms of story, characters, and ways you can go about handling missions and outcomes, FO NV is the best in the series.

Its fantasic for anyone who enjoy RPGs with branching stories, interwoven stories and outcomes. Is it the best game that ever does this? No, there are better out there. For when it came out? Yes it was very very good. Does it still hold its own weight in the modern era? Absolutly it does.

If you are wanting to rate it on graphics or mechanics, i mean, its a game from 2010. If your wanting to rate it on buggs, its a bethesda game, every one of their games is fixed by the community so i mean its par the course.