The Legion is superior to the NCR in pretty much every way.

[PrincessOfPersia]

So, back when I first played this game I didn't pay much attention to the politics of the NCR or Legion.

But I'm doing a new playthrough and looking back at it, the Legion is the obvious choice between the two. I'll put my reasons below

NCR
- Shockingly corrupt
- Low Morale among soldiers
- Discontent among citizens living within their jurisdiction
- Poor relations with the local tribes(Great Khan massacre)
- The NCR Officer at Camp Golf openly admits the NCR is occupying the region just to take the water from Lake Meade, he also acknowledges that the NCR drained all the lakes in California.
- Californians are a bunch of snobbish degenerate Assheads(Like in real life)
- The NCR can't even protect its own Caravan routes DESPITE clearly overspending on military.

Legion
- Corruption is low, only a little bit among the Officer ranks.
- Soldiers have such high morale they're willing to do suicide charges
- Discontent among citizens is unknown, Men are cannon fodder and Women do everything else. We can imagine that both have the same zealous attitude though.
- Caesers Legion is literally made up of conquered Tribes. It's not ideal but at least its not genocide.
- The Legion is in Nevada purely for the reason of expansion, they plan to live in these lands so they most likely will take better care of it than the resource draining NCR
- Legion troops obviously hate outsiders, so same snobbish attitude.
- Traders LOVE THE LEGION, because Legion territory is so crime free.

That's the other thing to acknowledge.
1: The legion is brutal
2: It's against technology
3: It has a cult of personality and its entirely possible Caeser could have his mind put into an AI to live forever

Meaning, that it's fairly reasonable to say the Legion will never collapse

Meanwhile, the NCR is an open and connected society and insurgency's/Seperatist movements could easily pop up.

Tell me what you think below, and no discussion of other Factions. Just these two

[SupernaturalMuffin]

Starting with the fact that they train child soilders, and that they do not let the player even use stimpacks at the fort meaing death from basic wounds would be higher because healing powder is much worse. They still use slaves so if they had a slave uprsing the entire legion way of life could fall apart, who cares if the slaves all die, no slaves means no workers.
Also there Coins would be less widely used then NCR money and Caps,also female traders would probely be banned from legion terriortry, that means people like the arms merchent at the slop and shop would not be selling in legion land.

Still the NCR have big issues all there police officers look like a bunch of goofs

[PrincessOfPersia]

Originally posted by TheSupernaturalMuffin:

Starting with the fact that they train child soilders, and that they do not let the player even use stimpacks at the fort meaing death from basic wounds would be higher because healing powder is much worse. They still use slaves so if they had a slave uprsing the entire legion way of life could fall apart, who cares if the slaves all die, no slaves means no workers.
Also there Coins would be less widely used then NCR money and Caps,also female traders would probely be banned from legion terriortry, that means people like the arms merchent at the slop and shop would not be selling in legion land.

Still the NCR have big issues all there police officers look like a bunch of goofs

1: Child Soldiers are the best and considering they're no families in the legion its entirely practical.

2: Healing powder is natural and has healing abilities, a few more deaths is not an issue.

3: Everyone is a slave in the legion.

4: Legion coins would obviously spread, they just have no actual civilian land beyond the Colorado so its pointless at the moment.

5: Traders would obviously not send their female employees into legion territory so that point doesn't make much sense.

NCR do have goofy police

[CursedPanther]

Looking at the bigger picture, the Legion is nothing more than another autocratic and totalitarian society like those in the history of mankind. Most of the troops of Caeser's troops are mindless drones heavily brainwashed by the emperor. On paper it could have been a good regime to fall back onto in a post-apocalyptic world which the primary goal is to ensure survival, so that precious time and resources won't be wasted on rounds of debates for critical matters to the society. Clear goals are always within sights.

However if the Legion truly resembles the actual Roman Empire, then we all know it isn't insusceptible to corruption and revolt forever either. During the events of NV it appeared strong and united only becuz the faction was still in its young age and internal power struggle hadn't escalated into a full blown civil war yet. Who would know what was about to happen after having another decade or two went by?

[Straybow]

I'd argue that Caesars goals are genocidal, just not how people use the word in everyday language. Then again some people equivocate genocide with mass killings which the legion does occasionally commit.

[PrincessOfPersia]

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Looking at the bigger picture, the Legion is nothing more than another autocratic and totalitarian society like those in the history of mankind. Most of the troops of Caeser's troops are mindless drones heavily brainwashed by the emperor. On paper it could have been a good regime to fall back onto in a post-apocalyptic world which the primary goal is to ensure survival, so that precious time and resources won't be wasted on rounds of debates on critical matters for the society. Clear goals are always within sights.

However if the Legion truly resembles the actual Roman Empire, then we all know it isn't insusceptible to corruption and revolt forever either. During the events of NV it appeared strong and united only becuz the faction was still in its young age and internal power struggle hadn't escalated into a full blown civil war yet. Who would know what was about to happen after having another decade or two went by?

That's the point I made with the possibility of Caeser living on forever.

Power struggles come from change in leadership/ideology, the Legion could easily stay the same for a few hundred years.

[CursedPanther]

Originally posted by PrincessOfPersia:

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Looking at the bigger picture, the Legion is nothing more than another autocratic and totalitarian society like those in the history of mankind. Most of the troops of Caeser's troops are mindless drones heavily brainwashed by the emperor. On paper it could have been a good regime to fall back onto in a post-apocalyptic world which the primary goal is to ensure survival, so that precious time and resources won't be wasted on rounds of debates on critical matters for the society. Clear goals are always within sights.

However if the Legion truly resembles the actual Roman Empire, then we all know it isn't insusceptible to corruption and revolt forever either. During the events of NV it appeared strong and united only becuz the faction was still in its young age and internal power struggle hadn't escalated into a full blown civil war yet. Who would know what was about to happen after having another decade or two went by?

That's the point I made with the possibility of Caeser living on forever.

Power struggles come from change in leadership/ideology, the Legion could easily stay the same for a few hundred years.

The Caesar preaches the importance of traditional values, to not rely on the convenience technology. You've said so yourself. Transferring one's conscious into a computer and speak through a machine is entirely against his belief.

[Zeno]

Originally posted by PrincessOfPersia:

Originally posted by CursedPanther:

Looking at the bigger picture, the Legion is nothing more than another autocratic and totalitarian society like those in the history of mankind. Most of the troops of Caeser's troops are mindless drones heavily brainwashed by the emperor. On paper it could have been a good regime to fall back onto in a post-apocalyptic world which the primary goal is to ensure survival, so that precious time and resources won't be wasted on rounds of debates on critical matters for the society. Clear goals are always within sights.

However if the Legion truly resembles the actual Roman Empire, then we all know it isn't insusceptible to corruption and revolt forever either. During the events of NV it appeared strong and united only becuz the faction was still in its young age and internal power struggle hadn't escalated into a full blown civil war yet. Who would know what was about to happen after having another decade or two went by?

That's the point I made with the possibility of Caeser living on forever.

Power struggles come from change in leadership/ideology, the Legion could easily stay the same for a few hundred years.

Caesar doesn't want to keep the Legion the same; he says as much when he speaks to the player about Hegelian dialectics. Instead, he explains that when he takes over the NCR, their ideologies will merge, creating a new ideology void of the weaknesses of theirs—thesis, antithesis, synthesis, one of the most fundamental aspects of Hegelianism.

I do prefer the Legion to the NCR, primarily for the reason outlined here (I'm a Communist):

The ultimate goal of the Legion is to unite humanity. They see democratic societies as tools that the rich and powerful use to keep the majority of humanity in a state of constant irresponsibility and ignorance. By keeping the people addicted to consumerism, they could effectively drain citizens of their wealth while rendering them ineffective. This not only partially explains the Legion's disdain of alcohol and chemical stimulants, as well as pointless luxuries, it also explains why they see the majority of people as "animals," and are so quick to use violence against them. To them, "animals" are those creatures that live only to survive. Humanity, in their eyes, is defined instead by the ability to override the fear of death and the base instinct to survive. Those who are able to face death head-on can more easily sacrifice themselves in pursuit of a greater societal and ideological goal.

Caesar greatly dislikes democratic societies, especially the NCR, because of their glorification of the wealthy over the worthy. In addition, Caesar greatly dislikes sectionalism and consumerism, mainly because he believes they convert humans into "animals," or simple beings that live only for the sake of surviving.

—From the Fallout Wiki's page on the Legion.

While I do advocate democracy, I don't think it can properly exist in capitalism. I also think that the Legion definitely does a lot of things that are totally wrong, and I'm not about to defend them on that front. I do think, though, that the Legion is more likely to properly protect the people of the Mojave and not just treat them as chores like the NCR probably would. The NCR is in the Mojave primarily for resources. Its interest in the people there is basically nonexistent.

[quin tribute]

Caesars legion is very good at raging guerrilla warfare however if they continue to push west after the 2nd battle of hover dam (if u side with Caesar) the NCR will continue to get stronger, Their weakness will get stronger while the legion continues to get weaker. The NCR has the support of guns, tecnology and numbers meanwhile legion fight with swords and only use guns if they must. However the legion use fear to keep the troops loyal to Caesar, however the NCR troops are demoralised and a terrifed of a terrorist attack from the Legion. The citezens in the legion are only happy because if they rebeled they would be crucified. However the Caesar tries to copy the Romans by use conquered tribes and wiping their tribal identity. Since Caesars legion is not very old people from conquered tribes still remember their idenitity so if there is a chance that their will be revolution in the legion. Even if the NCR waits the Legion will fall apart like Rome. Caesar has a brain tumor in his head (unless u cure it, ive never played through the legion questline), Lanius will get old and not terrify the soldiers anymore. After caesar dies the powerful leaders in the Legion will fight for control of the Legion. While the NCR can replace Kimball if he gets assinated or is kick out. The NCR Is adaptable, while the legion isnt. The NCR has good military commanders, while people like Lanius are terrible strategists. A lot of the faction in fnv are more belivable to side with the NCR.While the Brotherhood and the Khans seem like they hate the NCR, I belive the Brootherhood would rather side with the NCR than Legion savages and even if the didnt side with NCR, the Brotherhood would probably fight the Legion themselves. The boomers would rather side with the NCR. The NCR may look bad, but once u realise it is a very effective army. The Legion cant be as great as Rome because their lack of technology. The Legion are just cosplaying bandits to the NCR. The Legion cannot stand the test of time.

[VinnyTheSavage]

while i agree with californians are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that doesnt mean they are pushovers many rangers want to wipe the yard with the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with machetes but cannot due to lack of leadership. And yes that is pretty much the legion vanilla wise before the battle of hoover damn ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with knives lol

[Sinjin The Monke]

Legion are a bunch of homicidal raiders whose only saving grace is they are organized via fear better than any normal raider clan. Ceaser for all his great "intellect" has decided his heir will be a 7ft tall maniac who breaks people in half and wears a mask, and unless he meets his end at the dam, rather than lead this army he will go around trying to put down rogue bands of legion that leave once ceaser dies.

The NCR isn't even that much better. They are expanding far too quickly for their resources and as a result are doing little better than flailing on all fronts even to the point that a bunch of glorified tribals and strung out raiders can get the upper hand against them. Government corruption notwithstanding.

(Spoilers ahead)





Yes man as seen in the end will turn on you sooner or later likely once he's decided you're of no more use, so there goes independent Vegas

This leaves house as the only real viable option for the region.
House has the long game on lock down and with you working for him has a completely obiedient army that neither the Legion or the NCR can hope to fight off. And yet despite these staggering odds he's more concerned about securing himself, making vegas greater and developing tech to try and rebuild. He even goes as far as to let the NCR hang around saying "They're his best customers" and along with all of this is willing to make you the man who makes all this possible the most powerful and wealthy person in the region.

[nand633]

How does legion expand its army? According to the legion slaver near Weather family, legion kills most men captive, makes women do low job, and trains only kids. It's not an effeciant way to replenish an army during a long war of attrition.

NCR army employs or conscripts men and women. It also has better firepower. After a few dirty combats, NCR will maintain its army easily. But legion will lose experienced warriors. Victory will favor NCR.

The only chance of legion is a sudden strike to NCR's heart. It's already lost when legion and NCR confront each other at the front line.

[Vita, Mortis, Careo]

A few points about your beloved Legion.

Originally posted by PrincessOfPersia:

- Soldiers have such high morale they're willing to do suicide charges

They do so because they are, as Caesar himself said, more afraid of the commander behind them than the enemy in front of them. That isn't high morale, nor a sign of them being "willing".

- Discontent among citizens is unknown, Men are cannon fodder and Women do everything else. We can imagine that both have the same zealous attitude though.

Are you kidding? Discontent is widespread. They are kept in line through fear, not out of some devotion.

- Caesers Legion is literally made up of conquered Tribes. It's not ideal but at least its not genocide.

Genocide is very much in the Legion playbook.

- The Legion is in Nevada purely for the reason of expansion, they plan to live in these lands so they most likely will take better care of it than the resource draining NCR

Have you played New Vegas? The Legion is in the Mojave because its God-King has a chip on his shoulder about the world he grew up in. Caesar himself says that his conflict with the NCR is ideological. Lanius later goes on to admit that the years of gathering resources for territory of little value to the Legion has brought it to the breaking point.

- Traders LOVE THE LEGION, because Legion territory is so crime free.

Love is a strong statement. Cliff Briscoe is one guy.

[Sinjin The Monke]

Im fairly certain this thread is Bait and OP is a troll as no one with a brain likes legion unless they are an edgelord or REALLY dig the roman bit.
Though ive enjoyed seeing other people's opinions regarding this topic

[Enderminion]

the NCR is many times bigger, they can take the best of the best of there troops and still outnumber the ENTIRE leigon 3 or 4 to 1 not counting rangers, also the NCR gives there soldiers good guns, power armour and heavy weapons IN addition the NCR has air power so they can move troops faster and provide air support

[Epsilon]

i really dont care about factions unless its the brotherhood of steel i always get veronica first then go to the hidden valley hills bunker brother hood for life






















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