I hate raul and this is why i killed him + why i killed the great khans + why i killed tabetha and ronda

[HappyDog4you]

i killed raul because his attitude shows he just doesn't care about people. he won't even leave you if you chose to support the legion, and not because he's scared of leaving you or anything, he just genuinely doesn't care enough, which is enough for me to give him a bullet. anyone who's so passive they don't even care about the legion is basically passive to sex trafficking, child enslavement, torturing innocents, and that's why he deserves that bullet. personally, i'd leave anyone who followed that kind of life or made passive comments about atrocious acts, so that should tell you enough about raul.

sure, he comments if you kill the great khans telling you they "weren't so bad", even though the great khans are literally just a gang terrorising everyone and giving drugs to whoever wants them, even if it turns them into drug addicts. idc if the endgame cutscenes show them in a brighter light if you spare them, as if they'd actually join with the followers. even if they did, doesn't change the fact they were a threat to innocent people at the present time, and killing them prevented any more damage they could do to people.

i killed them because they're a careless, ruthless gang and a threat to people, a threat to children. there's also an NCR at camp mccarren who were a kid at bitter springs and explains they weren't these "innocent people" murdered there. they were ruthless and inflicting that teaching on more children. not excusing what the NCR did completely btw, as they chose to fire on a group of people who, among them, had innocents. red rock canyon had no innocents. even jerry was piece of scum imo. i talked to him and found out he wanted to join the great khans at first before realising it wasn't for him, which indicates to me he wanted to be a piece of crap terrorising people but wasn't "tough" enough for it. good riddance, loser. you got what you chose, you chose khans which meant death.

as for tabetha and ronda, i killed them to prevent them hurting anymore people. and i also killed the nightkin in the repconn rocket factory, the ones who were talking to a brahmin skull. too dangerous to keep alive. the thought of helping them only to then have them roaming the mojave, no thanks. i'm not gonna let them harm people like they've already harmed jason bright's non-feral flock, which also caused the feral ghouls to be released from the factory, which jason bright was inappropriately keeping alive. on that note, i would've killed the feral ghouls the moment i found them in the factory even if the nightkin didn't release them, as they are also a danger not worth keeping alive anymore, despite whatever jason thinks. if he chose to attack me for it, i'd kill him, as it would show to me that he's so unstable he's willing to attack people for killing feral ghouls.

anyway, to anyone who actually reads my points, it would be interesting to see what you think of my mentality. personally, i think i did the right thing.

[PaladinTyler]

You know, as the courier, you've probably killed more people than the Great Khans, Tabetha, Ronda and Davidson's Nightkin combined. I am not saying these people (and robot) and these groups aren't dangerous. What I am saying is that the courier is the most dangerous and harmful person walking the Mojave Wasteland.

[RealCabbage]

So, you have killed hundreds of mothers, fathers, daughters, and sons, and you talk about others being a danger? Did you kill Boone? He was at Bitter Springs and gunned down kids and women too. Did you kill Arcade? He was a member of the Enclave. Sure they both "regret it", but how can you be sure? Best to put them down, rather than have dangers like them (and yourself for that matter) roaming the Mojave lel

[drunken.dx]

Originally posted by RealCabbage:

So, you have killed hundreds of mothers, fathers, daughters, and sons, and you talk about others being a danger? Did you kill Boone? He was at Bitter Springs and gunned down kids and women too. Did you kill Arcade? He was a member of the Enclave. Sure they both "regret it", but how can you be sure? Best to put them down, rather than have dangers like them (and yourself for that matter) roaming the Mojave lel

Agreed, I just love it when they get all moral pillars while being complete hypocrites.

Originally posted by HappyDog4you:

anyway, to anyone who actually read my points, it would be interesting to see what you think of my mentality. personally, i think i did the right thing.

I think you're a hypocrite.

As pointed out above, both Boone and Arcade have skeletons in the closet and you're ignoring that.

Are you ignoring BoS? they harass anyone wielding energy weapons.

And that's not even going in DLC's

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by PaladinTyler:

You know, as the courier, you've probably killed more people than the Great Khans, Tabetha, Ronda and Davidson's Nightkin combined. I am not saying these people (and robot) and these groups aren't dangerous. What I am saying is that the courier is the most dangerous and harmful person walking the Mojave Wasteland.

i'm dangerous but only to bad people, that's how i worked the mojave.

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by hampter:

Makes sense. If you see a murder on the news and are indifferent you deserve the death penalty.

well, no. if you murder bad people to protect innocents, although you are a murderer for it, i'm glad you did it. i don't put death penalty executioners in the same category as people who murder innocents.

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by RealCabbage:

So, you have killed hundreds of mothers, fathers, daughters, and sons, and you talk about others being a danger? Did you kill Boone? He was at Bitter Springs and gunned down kids and women too. Did you kill Arcade? He was a member of the Enclave. Sure they both "regret it", but how can you be sure? Best to put them down, rather than have dangers like them (and yourself for that matter) roaming the Mojave lel

just because someone is a mother, father, daughter or son, doesn't mean they're innocent? i killed those who chose the life of a dangerous criminal. and not just selling drugs but also working in a gang that's passive to murdering innocents. in the quarry junction, the khans up on the ridge, if you tell them you're after some khans who worked with benny to kill you, they say they're unwilling to snitch on other khans because they have "loyalty". they're fine with the khans having worked with someone to kill you, an innocent. they don't care what khans do because they think khans can do whatever.

boone's story is terrible and i told him he was wrong for what he had done and that i wouldn't have done the same as him in his position. i told him straight. he was a douchebag following orders, which makes him a corrupt force for any government. all soldiers in the real world should question if their actions are the right choice. you're putting people's lives in your hands as a soldier, and you should take it very seriously to the point you reject orders if you feel they are immoral.

engaging further on boone, he's clearly a good man who went into the army to try and help people and ended up doing something terrible. was that his fault? partially. it's a grey area and not worth the death penalty for obvious reasons. it's not like he chose to be in the raiders, khans or legion.

you have to remember that, for how much more these terrible gangs grow, the increase in danger it is for the whole of the mojave. if you allow khans to live, in a real life situation, you're talking about ignoring a gang that's known for killing innocents. should police and soldiers do that in real life? no. police attempt to lock them up and put them in cells.

if you think about the breakout at the NCRCF, and the vault with the escaped convicts wanting to turn themselves in, they should've thought about that before they chose to help kill a bunch of innocent NCR soldiers just because they don't want to be in prison for crimes they chose to commit in the first place?

[Castyles]

Okay. What about the Enclave i.e. Arcade and The Brotherhood of Steel i.e. Veronica? You dodged arguments for both, earlier.

[Zeddy]

Raul has been alive for who knows how long. In that time span he just mellowed out and became indifferent to a lot of things. I dont think someone like that deserve to die just because a random guy decided he didnt fit his moral compass.

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by Castyles:

Okay. What about the Enclave i.e. Arcade and The Brotherhood of Steel i.e. Veronica? You dodged arguments for both, earlier.

the enclave has commit atrocities, not arcade.

arcade was an infant when his father died. and when his father died was when the enclave was being defeated. he then eventually left the enclave and found himself joining the FotA.

arcade is now in the followers of the apocalypse, a group dedicated to helping innocent people who are struggling with normal life. a key component needed in the real world to help people live peacefully. this is noble.

as for the older enclave members, arcade suggests recruiting them to help in the battle of hoover dam. one member of the enclave hates the NCR and plans to kill you and seal the other enclave members inside the enclave vault. i killed him. even if i wanted to convince him to change his mind, i couldn't trust him at all. how would i know what he plans to do once we're at hoover dam? he might just laugh himself to death as he opens fire on the NCR, me, the other enclave members and the BoS. the fact he was willing to kill me and lock the other enclave members in the vault just because of his own anger towards the NCR shows he's very psychotic.

as for the other elders of the enclave, should they be punished for their role in the enclave? maybe, it depends. however, this particular group of enclave soldiers have chosen to support the NCR in defeating the legion, aiding them in battle.

to be honest, i should go and kill them after using them to help the NCR because they aren't innocent just because they're old and "humble" now. they would've heard about the atrocities being committed by the enclave and chose to serve still. and none of them have discredited the enclave from conversations i've had with them.

they were once in a horrible terrorism group and are responsible for what they did.

one could argue that it's all in the past now and they've changed but that doesn't excuse them for what they did. it's like if i decided to join a terrorist group knowing what i know about them and choosing to serve them. and then my side loses the war and i turn old and "humble" and think that deserves a pardon from the death penalty.

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by Zeddy:

Raul has been alive for who knows how long. In that time span he just mellowed out and became indifferent to a lot of things. I dont think someone like that deserve to die just because a random guy decided he didnt fit his moral compass.

by that logic you're fine with someone being "mellowed out" towards sex trafficking, child enslavement, torturing innocents, etc? he could've just been a decent person who doesn't agree with any of it because it's not exactly hard if it's in your nature to care about others.

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by Castyles:

Okay. What about the Enclave i.e. Arcade and The Brotherhood of Steel i.e. Veronica? You dodged arguments for both, earlier.

now for the brotherhood.

the brotherhood are obsessed with technology. their philosophy is to remove it from the hands of non-brotherhood in order to protect the world from having dangerous weaponry.

are the brotherhood a brainwashed cult? yes, sort of.
are they somewhat decent enough of a group to try and reform them? yes, to me.

if the brotherhood refused to stop killing innocent people for their energy weapons, i would've had to destroy the brotherhood of steel's bunker. it's only because i was able to reform them that they live. just making this clear.

the elder inside the bunker seemed very wise, more wise than veronica thinks. and i told her that i took the side of elder mcnamara, telling her that he might know what he's talking about. this is a man i might be able to persuade to work with the NCR, someone who's calm and considerate and doesn't spontaneously make judgements that could go bad. he tests. veronica seems to think he just doesn't listen but i see that he does.

the only thing that actually makes the BoS a threat to innocents is their following of an old belief, or set of rules/laws. a belief that can be a good thing as long as they reform because there are actually advanced war technology out there that needs to be kept away from the public. it makes sense to me to have established them with the NCR to add a layer of law and democratic decision making over the BoS, rather than the BoS governing themselves with their own views. the NCR can now negotiate with the BoS to decide what technology is acceptable to the public and what actions the BoS is allowed to take.

i believe that by having established a connection with the NCR for peace, this will also help to teach the brotherhood to be more open minded with trusting outsiders and also helping them feel secure enough about energy weapons, as they know how dangerous they can be.

over time, the partnership between the NCR and BoS can go two ways:

outcome 1:
the NCR and BoS work together to remove dangerous technology and secure dangerous landmarks in the mojave while also negotiating what's acceptable for the public to use, ensuring a healthy relationship and teaching the brotherhood to be more open minded.

(this is what i think would most likely happen due to a number of factors, including one big factor which would be the NCR going to war with them if they continued killing innocents)

outcome 2:
the BoS reject the basic mandatory negotiations from the NCR as it conflicts with their beliefs about energy weapons causing the NCR to go into war with them.

(very unlikely because the BoS's belief system can still stay in place as long as they are reasonable and fair, which they can be, especially with someone like elder mcnamara)

[Mr. Raider]

In Raul's good ending he becomes someone bad guys are terrified of, by killing him for his passiveness you let countless actively bad people live.

[particle systems]

Originally posted by HappyDog4you:

Originally posted by Castyles:

Okay. What about the Enclave i.e. Arcade and The Brotherhood of Steel i.e. Veronica? You dodged arguments for both, earlier.

now for the brotherhood.

the brotherhood are obsessed with technology. their philosophy is to remove it from the hands of non-brotherhood in order to protect the world from having dangerous weaponry.

are the brotherhood a brainwashed cult? yes, sort of.
are they somewhat decent enough of a group to try and reform them? yes, to me.

if the brotherhood refused to stop killing innocent people for their energy weapons, i would've had to destroy the brotherhood of steel's bunker. it's only because i was able to reform them that they live. just making this clear.

the elder inside the bunker seemed very wise, more wise than veronica thinks. and i told her that i took the side of elder mcnamara, telling her that he might know what he's talking about. this is a man i might be able to persuade to work with the NCR, someone who's calm and considerate and doesn't spontaneously make judgements that could go bad. he tests. veronica seems to think he just doesn't listen but i see that he does.

the only thing that actually makes the BoS a threat to innocents is their following of an old belief, or set of rules/laws. a belief that can be a good thing as long as they reform because there are actually advanced war technology out there that needs to be kept away from the public. it makes sense to me to have established them with the NCR to add a layer of law and democratic decision making over the BoS, rather than the BoS governing themselves with their own views. the NCR can now negotiate with the BoS to decide what technology is acceptable to the public and what actions the BoS is allowed to take.

i believe that by having established a connection with the NCR for peace, this will also help to teach the brotherhood to be more open minded with trusting outsiders and also helping them feel secure enough about energy weapons, as they know how dangerous they can be.

over time, the partnership between the NCR and BoS can go two ways:

outcome 1:
the NCR and BoS work together to remove dangerous technology and secure dangerous landmarks in the mojave while also negotiating what's acceptable for the public to use, ensuring a healthy relationship and teaching the brotherhood to be more open minded.

(this is what i think would most likely happen due to a number of factors, including one big factor which would be the NCR going to war with them if they continued killing innocents)

outcome 2:
the BoS reject the basic mandatory negotiations from the NCR as it conflicts with their beliefs about energy weapons causing the NCR to go into war with them.

(very unlikely because the BoS's belief system can still stay in place as long as they are reasonable and fair, which they can be, especially with someone like elder mcnamara)

McNamara wont be Elder forever, he isnt inmortal and im sure the truce with NCR will end after he dies, Hardin (the second in command) doesnt want an alliance with NCR. The BoS is not to be trusted, they went to war with NCR and even destroyed their gold reserves, they put explosive collars on people (both McNamara and Elijah) they kill Followers of the Apocalyse doctors if you convince Veronica to leave the BoS, and they like to steal tech from traders and other people, and hoard it for themselves. They are a terrorist group. The BoS refuses to stop following their codex.
And the NCR is not the best choice for the wasteland, they are too incompetent and corrupt, they attack Jacobstown, they have no allies without Courier intervention and their camps are a mess, and they only reward you with a crappy civilian medal. The Powder Gangers exist because of their own incompetence.

[HappyDog4you]

Originally posted by Windows95:

McNamara wont be Elder forever, he isnt inmortal and im sure the truce with NCR will end after he dies, Hardin (the second in command) doesnt want an alliance with NCR. The BoS is not to be trusted, they went to war with NCR and even destroyed their gold reserves, they put explosive collars on people (both McNamara and Elijah) they kill Followers of the Apocalyse doctors if you convince Veronica to leave the BoS, and they like to steal tech from traders and other people, and hoard it for themselves. They are a terrorist group. The BoS refuses to stop following their codex.
And the NCR is not the best choice for the wasteland, they are too incompetent and corrupt, they attack Jacobstown, they have no allies without Courier intervention and their camps are a mess, and they only reward you with a crappy civilian medal. The Powder Gangers exist because of their own incompetence.

1. mcnamara will be elder for enough years to make quite a big difference in strengthening relations with the NCR.

2. kill or exile hardin after exposing his plans to mcnamara.

3. the war between the NCR and BoS did happen and a friendship made after might be a good thing to prevent another one happening, and for improving the overall mojave by letting the BoS be a kind of department of defence for managing advanced technology but needs NCR negotiations over it and law to be upheld, which means no killing innocents for tech.

4. they only put an explosive collar on you to ensure their anonymity. they are under the impression they will die if anyone finds out where they are because they think the NCR will come and kill them all. and when you tell the NCR ranger to leave without killing him, mcnamara doesn't kill you and just hopes the ranger doesn't tell the NCR about the BoS hideout.

5. the NCR is a good choice for the wasteland. they have shown competence and incompetence but that doesn't mean they aren't good for the wasteland. and in comparison to any other faction, they are the best choice.

6. you would have to kill hardin anonymously and leave it at that, forcing elder mcnamara to pick the next elder or have hardin exiled after telling mcnamara what he asked you to do.
6b. killing hardin isn't exactly unreasonable since he demonstrates what kind of elder he is going to be from the moment after you talk to mcnamara. he shows he's arrogant, unreasonable, and has a hatred towards the NCR and that's not good, nor do i want that in charge of such a powerful group.

mr house is corrupt and losing sanity. he threatened to kill me for not giving him the chip. all i wanted was to make sure i was giving the chip to someone i can trust it with but the option wasn't there for me to do so as he demanded it or i wasn't being allowed to leave. he then set his robots on me.

as for yes man, he's literally a hacked robot that can be exploited. why would i put that in charge of anything? he can also glitch in programming or anything technical go wrong which could have serious negative effects on the strip.

i killed mr house for trying to kill me. and i killed yes man to prevent him being used.

i then let the NCR take over the strip so they could also manage the casinos a lot more integrally. it makes sense because the NCR can do a much better job at fixing corruption in the casinos and find out what's actually going on. and it puts humans in charge that people can go to and rely on for help when they need it. citizens of the strip can't go to mr house for help or concerns.

[particle systems]

Originally posted by HappyDog4you:

Originally posted by Windows95:

McNamara wont be Elder forever, he isnt inmortal and im sure the truce with NCR will end after he dies, Hardin (the second in command) doesnt want an alliance with NCR. The BoS is not to be trusted, they went to war with NCR and even destroyed their gold reserves, they put explosive collars on people (both McNamara and Elijah) they kill Followers of the Apocalyse doctors if you convince Veronica to leave the BoS, and they like to steal tech from traders and other people, and hoard it for themselves. They are a terrorist group. The BoS refuses to stop following their codex.
And the NCR is not the best choice for the wasteland, they are too incompetent and corrupt, they attack Jacobstown, they have no allies without Courier intervention and their camps are a mess, and they only reward you with a crappy civilian medal. The Powder Gangers exist because of their own incompetence.

1. mcnamara will be elder for enough years to make quite a big difference in strengthening relations with the NCR.
2. kill or exile hardin.
3. the war between the NCR and BoS happened and a friendship made after might be a good thing to prevent another one happening in the future, and for improving the overall mojave.
4. they only put an explosive collar on you to ensure their anonymity. they are under the impression they will die if anyone finds out where they are because they think the NCR will come and kill them all.
5. the NCR is a good choice for the wasteland. they have shown competence and incompetence but that doesn't mean they aren't good for the wasteland. and in comparison to any other faction, they are the best choice.

6. you would have to kill hardin anonymously and leave it at that, forcing elder mcnamara to pick the next elder or have hardin exiled after telling mcnamara what he asked you to do.
6b. killing hardin isn't exactly unreasonable since he demonstrates what kind of person he is going to be as elder from the moment after you talk to mcnamara. he shows he's arrogant, unreasonable, and has a hatred towards the NCR and i don't like that, nor do i want that in charge of such a powerful group. and you're not given the option to tell mcnamara he asked you to do this either, for some reason.

mr house is corrupt and losing sanity. he threatened to kill me for not giving him the chip. all i wanted was to make sure i was giving the chip to someone i can trust it with but the option wasn't there for me to do so as he demanded it or i wasn't being allowed to leave. he then set his robots on me.

as for yes man, he's literally a hacked robot that can be exploited. why would i put that in charge of anything? he can also glitch in programming or anything and having dangerous effects caused from such.

i killed mr house for trying to kill me. and i killed yes man to prevent him being used.

i then let the NCR take over the strip so they could also manage the casinos a lot more integrally. it makes sense because the NCR can do a much better job at fixing corruption in the casinos and find out what's actually going on. and it puts humans in charge that people can go to and rely on for help when they need it. citizens of the strip can't go to mr house for help or concerns.

1. There is no ingame evidence of this. McNamara only made the truce because they were nearly destroyed.
3. The BoS only cares about themselves, not making the wasteland a better place, they are NOT good guys.
4. There is NO moral justification for this. You kill Mr House because he was mean (because you were ransoming HIS property to him, after signing a contract to deliver it to him) and you kill Raul, yet the BoS putting explosive collars on people and killing innocent Follower doctors and stealing tech is fine for you.
5. The NCR havent shown any competence at all in the Mojave. The only reason they barely won Hoover Dam 1 was because of Hanlon, their only competent officer.
They are a decades old republic that occupied the Mojave for many years yet their camps are falling apart, they have no allies and they would surely lose Hoover Dam 2 without Courier intervention (Legion has 3 allies (Omertas, Fiends, Khans) and took over Nelson and Cottonwood Cove without Courier intervention).

Also Hardin (the 2nd in command) may not be the only one with that mentallity and views, it is highly likely that even if you killed him, a future elder with his same views would potentially restart the war with NCR. The BoS will never stop following their codex.