Fallout: New Vegas

Fallout: New Vegas

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Facetable Sep 20, 2020 @ 11:52pm
Is it just me or does House get way too much praise?
So I was running through an Independent ending playthrough and I had just poked House with a glorified cooking utensil when the game informed me that 1.I was a piece of ♥♥♥♥ (bad karma) and 2. that "a great tragedy has befallen mankind." This got me thinking: Why does house get this much praise?

Yes, he does claim that his ultimate goal is to put some people into space, but he pretty much ends up stating that space will only be for the elite and that everyone else can screw off. Leaving behind the impoverished/disenfranchised segment of humanity to eat ♥♥♥♥ so that the elite can live in luxury isn't a triumph of humanity, its an insane level of class division as well as the foundation for numerous dystopian plots

Ultimately though, its this:

What really irks me about House is the statement that he has about democracy being the cause of the end of the world when he can see the real cause looking at him in the mirror. The events of October 23rd, 2077 were brought on by a war for resources. That war for resources was brought on by the unsustainable industrial and economic practices that House and those like him perpetuated as well as the complicity he and other influential figures had with regards to the world getting slapped with some warheads.

I'm not trying to argue that House brought on the apocalypse, but I will argue that at the very least he absolutely had a hand in letting it happen, and when the game says that this guy dying is the real tragedy for all of humanity... I'm confused to say the least.

There's other things about him that makes me angry when the game says this, but I'm curious see what others think about this.
Last edited by Facetable; Sep 21, 2020 @ 12:05am
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
Mr_Faorry Sep 21, 2020 @ 1:09am 
Pretty sure that message is just a propaganda piece House had in place ready to release in case of his death, not the game itself making a judgement on your actions.

The ending slide for if you have House win doesn't exactly hold him as a paragon of virtue.
Mr. House's Securitron army took control of Hoover Dam and the Strip, pushing both the Legion and the exhausted NCR out of New Vegas. Mr. House continued to run New Vegas his way, a despotic vision of pre-War glory. The streets were orderly, efficient, cold. New Vegas continued to be the sole place in the wasteland where fortunes were won and lost in the blink of an eye.
So if anything the game would agree with you that House isn't exactly the best as it sounds like he runs a somewhat fascist (god I hate using that term because of how misused it is these days where anything people don't like is 'fascist', but I think it would fit here) state when he wins.


As for the bad karma, well you did murder him and murder is bad.
Though the karma system is ♥♥♥♥ to begin with, just use these mods to effectively remove it.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/38897
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/66016
I feel this quote from the first mods description about sums it up.
the way karma works in this game Robin Hood would be the ultimate bad guy... Whereas a psycho who'd kill everyone would end up with a good karma score
E3kHatena Sep 21, 2020 @ 8:29am 
Mr. House wrote "A Great Tragedy has Befallen Mankind" to be distributed upon his death.
Versa Sep 21, 2020 @ 9:06am 
I do believe Mr. House is not a option for the Mojave, and that he's, well... Megalomaniac.

He thinks that he will save "Humanity" at any cost, but to me what he believes that is humanity to him are those who that are the rulling elite that basically can stay in New Vegas. He doesn't care about Freeside, and the people that lives there, because they are impoverished as you said, and they can't afford to go inside of New Vegas to get help there. And at the same time, as you said again, the elite will live in luxuary and many things. While the rest of humanity suffer because they can't be just like the elite.

And yes, it's true. The Great War in Fallout was because of a war for resources thanks to the USA. But at the same time I do think he was right about Democracy, after all, the USA was thinking it was right to kill people and thinking it's "freedom" for the American people. And at the same time, (spoilers, if you don't know about the Fallout lore and just want to discover for yourself playing Fallout 1 and 2) the USA was thinking it was great idea to use their people as "human guinea pigs" thanks by the Enclave and Vault-Tec.

Also, the "A Great Tragedy has Befallen Mankind" to me is just a propaganda of his that every rulling elite "irl" tries to do so that they can get a good image. And it doesn't matter, because some people still hates him. His propaganda to be honest is like a way to him make people believe that there's no hope now for mankind because they are going to live with the NCR or with the Legion and that he was the only reason for mankind to survive.

I hate House, the NCR, and the Legion. But to me, Yes Man and a Independent Vegas is the way to go. And I believe it because of the DLCs and especially Lonesome Road.

(again, spoilers, but now it's of the Lonesome Road DLC, if you haven't played it yet) When Ulysses told you, the Courier, that in your past you have destroyed the Divide, but at the same time before you destroyed it, you also created it, I thought about Vegas. I think the Courier can make Vegas something more, that can help many people, and many "good" factions like the Followers of the Apocalypse. Ulysses to me, even he was Legion, he knew that the Legion would fall because of their own idea, and because of the Legate. And he even said that the NCR will fall as well, because they are trapped in their own defense against the Legion (this is explain why the Legion can't just kill the entire NCR, lol, also, the NCR does have some good technology against the Legion and they can replace their president at anytime, meaning that they can still boost up morale on their soldiers, while the Legion only has Caesar). And House..., well, he's just Megalomaniac. And his vision of the Future is not great as well as I said above. Yes Man to me as I said is basically the way to go. Because the Courier can rebuild Vegas to help many people, and if the Courier did help his/her companions they can make many changes in the Mojave as well.

TL;DR: House sucks, NCR will fall, Legion is already doomed, and Yes Man is a new reborn for Vegas.
Last edited by Versa; Sep 21, 2020 @ 9:08am
Doctor Go-Go Sep 21, 2020 @ 11:30am 
Someone must run the show and that someone wants power, what else would motivate them to do the job?

As cold and ruthless as House is he's right, because there will always be those who want the throne as well as a tribe of cattle to send out to the slaughter for the affair.

Most people don't want to be the bad guy, but we can't have our cake and eat it too. It makes things much easier when they are turned against each other, they believe they are the good and the other is the bad. As long as they BELIEVE they are doing the right thing everything will fall into place.

Benny is the example of the smooth talker that always has the answer and a smile but it's nothing more than a ruse.

Just like the real world, if ONLY we could ALWAYS do the right thing and have enough resources for everyone to get a fair share.

Fallout encourages players to think and sacrifice. just like with the stealing. Is it worth stealing all of the trivial items? Some would say the karma system in NV doesn't really matter but what does matter is how it makes the player feel when they get a negative hit.

Just like choosing sides with factions. Along with comes benefits as well as consequences.

Can those who want to do the right thing for everyone afford to do so? Is it realistic?
A guy who built robco industries from nothing after his brother cheated him out of herritage, predicted and survived nuclear holocaust, prolonged his life to live for centuries and rebuilt Vegas knows what he is doing. Period.

And he is way better than scummy NCR or Legion barbarians.
Mr_Faorry Sep 21, 2020 @ 8:15pm 
Originally posted by Jaco:
~snip~
TL;DR: House sucks, NCR will fall, Legion is already doomed, and Yes Man is a new reborn for Vegas.
Hard disagree on Yesman, the Yesman route just leads to anarchy and paves the way for groups such as the fiends to thrive. The entire time you're doing stuff to destabilise and eventually remove the existing power structures but there isn't a single quest where you begin laying the foundations for a new central power structure, you're just leaving the Mojave with a huge power vacuum.

If we look at the Boomer and Followers ending slides they outright say the Mojave become "Anarchic" and "Worse than Ever" respectively.

Though the Wasteland became anarchic after Hoover Dam, the Boomers' display of power dissuaded fortune seekers from attempting to penetrate Nellis
After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that Independent New Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services.

Also someone else on reddit told me that the Yesman quest names are all references to Anarchist and Punk culture, so this would further support the idea since those sort of things are normally chosen for a reason.

Yesman is honestly the second worst ending behind only the Legion, arguably even the worse ending.
Redboy Sep 21, 2020 @ 10:20pm 
(Meanwhile Redboy casually polishes his 9 Iron)
Last edited by Redboy; Sep 21, 2020 @ 10:20pm
Facetable Sep 21, 2020 @ 10:34pm 
Alright so the whole "a great tragedy has befallen all mankind" thing being written by House makes alot more sense, thanks to all who pointed that out.

Originally posted by Mr_Faorry:

As for the bad karma, well you did murder him and murder is bad.
Though the karma system is ♥♥♥♥ to begin with, just use these mods to effectively remove it.
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/38897
https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/66016
I feel this quote from the first mods description about sums it up.
the way karma works in this game Robin Hood would be the ultimate bad guy... Whereas a psycho who'd kill everyone would end up with a good karma score

Yeah the bad karma makes sense (though you are right-its a pretty broken system) thanks for the mod recommendations too btw.
Originally posted by Jaco:
And yes, it's true. The Great War in Fallout was because of a war for resources thanks to the USA. But at the same time I do think he was right about Democracy, after all, the USA was thinking it was right to kill people and thinking it's "freedom" for the American people. And at the same time, (spoilers, if you don't know about the Fallout lore and just want to discover for yourself playing Fallout 1 and 2) the USA was thinking it was great idea to use their people as "human guinea pigs" thanks by the Enclave and Vault-Tec.

I still don't really blame democracy as being responsible for the cause. The societies that existed just before the bombs fell were as you mentioned, being run by the Enclave/Vault-Tec, with society being manipulated by them to achieve their goals, the democracy was a show at that point. This is also the reason why I don't entirely blame House: He couldn't stop them from carrying out their plans (But I do think he could've at least worked to reduce the damage he was doing through his industry without putting himself at risk)

Facetable Sep 22, 2020 @ 12:24am 
Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:
Someone must run the show and that someone wants power, what else would motivate them to do the job?

Ideology, philosophy, and empathy are a few other motivators that can work just as well as opposed to a blind desire for power.
Also, while leadership is important, elite directed growth is not same thing as it only benefits the elite of society and usually results the destabilization/collapse of societies due to it being unsustainable
Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:
As cold and ruthless as House is he's right, because there will always be those who want the throne as well as a tribe of cattle to send out to the slaughter for the affair.

Most people don't want to be the bad guy, but we can't have our cake and eat it too. It makes things much easier when they are turned against each other, they believe they are the good and the other is the bad. As long as they BELIEVE they are doing the right thing everything will fall into place.

In commercialized societies, yes this tends to be the promoted way of things: individuals must reach the top not by achieved leadership, but by any means necessary, and once they do so they must maintain and increase their control, even if such is detrimental to society. The problem is this is again the same elite directed growth: elite makes society move towards what benefits the elite, more power is accumulated by the elite, elite makes society move more towards what benefits the elite. This cycle continues until it winds up at a point where otherwise illogical and irrational decisions are made because such actions benefit the elite in some way.
Facetable Sep 22, 2020 @ 12:24am 
Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:
Benny is the example of the smooth talker that always has the answer and a smile but it's nothing more than a ruse.
Yeah that's pretty accurate, though I would add that Benny is ultimately just another member of the elite who makes up said answers as part of getting higher by any means necessary (in this case ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ your way to victory)
Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:
Just like the real world, if ONLY we could ALWAYS do the right thing and have enough resources for everyone to get a fair share.
Doing the right thing can often be dependent on context and is somewhat subjective, so I can understand that it can be difficult, but House making the same mistake over and over again for 200+ years is when I draw the line.
As for resources, that's kinda the whole mistake here: There are more than enough resources, the problem is the distribution. Some groups and societies not only have more resources than they could ever even use(cough cough, Vault City), but also wind up going about using said resources in inefficient and unsustainable ways that (wait for it) only benefit the elite (even if that benefit is merely perceived and isn't actually real)
Originally posted by Doctor Go-Go:
Just like choosing sides with factions. Along with comes benefits as well as consequences.

Can those who want to do the right thing for everyone afford to do so? Is it realistic?

Right thing's a bit subjective, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that crucifixions and fascism come with consequences that aren't worth the benefits. Same goes for helping a megalomaniac commit territorial genocide so that he can finally get his hands on that orbital cannon he always wanted.

Now in regards to House though, yeah, he can absolutely do the right thing, for everyone. The fact that the G.E.C.K. exists... that multiple G.E.C.K.s exist and he instead sees throwing some rich people into space as the solution to all humanity's problems is... well its one of the other things that pissed me off about him.
Last edited by Facetable; Sep 22, 2020 @ 9:15pm
Mr House always thought like 1000 steps ahead. The bad karma is murder and it's probably propaganda he placed incase of his death (btw Mr. New Vegas is an A.I. Mr. House designed as well).

Mr. House how do i put this:

NCR=focus on Pre-War Values and ethics. They literally suffer and show signs of pre-war government and army faced when at war with the Chinese all the fallouts make a big ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ deal about the failed operation Anchorage and how Liberty prime would've been the main goal but it wasn't ready so they went with power armors and lost a great deal of men even with advanced power suits. Corruption and disregard for life both soldiers and wastelanders were already seen as well as stretching thin and disorganized af. They also would've sided or could've sided with the BoS which literally Mr. House and Caesar disagree with and wanna destroy.

Legion=Go back to pre-pre war times to the old Roman Glory. With cut content included they would've been a dictatorship democracy with a few cabinet position leaders. Slaves would've been common but could rise through the ranks and traders and their people would live without fear of what dwels outside the cities and forts. They would've had clean water power and live a good enough life so long as you followed the rule of Caesar. Legion and NCR are literally 2 sides of the same coin.

Yes Man=a computer program. While has House's statistics and ♥♥♥♥ and changed program at the end it's still a program and would've seen ♥♥♥♥ like "oh the BoS died or are saved okay then leave them be". Basically can't really value life

Mr. House=a Businessman first and ruler 2nd. He probably knows humanity i ♥♥♥♥♥♥ either way. He wants to escape earth and start anew. I mean it's mostly all irridiated and a bunch of savages fighting for control with a bunch of pre-war tech hoarding factions also doing the same but on a larger scale killing each other and the savages. Plus it's his New Vegas. NCR and Legion just wanna occupy it and Yes Man too but it's mostly b/c of Benny and you the Courier player. While not the most ethical he's still got values and predicted the bombs dropping and saving part of his business interests.

Compared to the rest he's actually the smartest move. Like yeah alot of people will probably die and get screwed over but at the end businesses still need people to make and buy their stuff. Otherwise it's just robots making all the stuff and buying all the stuff. Guess / surprised Mr. House didn't invest in Synths / institute or Big Mt. tech or taking over it. I take it the devs forgot or were strapped on time.
Versa Sep 22, 2020 @ 9:20am 
Originally posted by Mr_Faorry:
Originally posted by Jaco:
~snip~
TL;DR: House sucks, NCR will fall, Legion is already doomed, and Yes Man is a new reborn for Vegas.
Hard disagree on Yesman, the Yesman route just leads to anarchy and paves the way for groups such as the fiends to thrive. The entire time you're doing stuff to destabilise and eventually remove the existing power structures but there isn't a single quest where you begin laying the foundations for a new central power structure, you're just leaving the Mojave with a huge power vacuum.

If we look at the Boomer and Followers ending slides they outright say the Mojave become "Anarchic" and "Worse than Ever" respectively.

Though the Wasteland became anarchic after Hoover Dam, the Boomers' display of power dissuaded fortune seekers from attempting to penetrate Nellis
After the Courier ensured New Vegas remain free, the Followers found that Independent New Vegas was even more unstable and violent than before. Old Mormon Fort became excessively burdened by the influx of patients, struggling to provide even the most basic of services.

Also someone else on reddit told me that the Yesman quest names are all references to Anarchist and Punk culture, so this would further support the idea since those sort of things are normally chosen for a reason.

Yesman is honestly the second worst ending behind only the Legion, arguably even the worse ending.

Haha, yeah it's obvious that the Yes Man is are all references to Anarchist and Punk culture if you know more about 'em. But well, I just prefer him for many reasons.

And of course, yes, in a Anarchist Society things would start, well, pretty bad. The thing is that in a anarchist society there isn't any power and it's totally decentralized, people will do what they want. It's almost like the Kings, they do what they want and they are united. And to me depending on what you do with the Fiends (like, let them go or just kill their leaders so that they can be totally destabilized and easy preys), or anything.

But hey I must say I do hate too the fact that there isn't any part where you can start a new type of power for the people in the wasteland, but, well, roleplaying exists, so I can imagine that my Courier just sabotaged everyone and basically just made New Vegas a new central power to help the people in the Mojave.

But to me sincerly I like Yes Man more because of roleplaying, after all, New Vegas is a great RPG to me and I can roleplay the way I want with many mods that I like.
dr.rosenrosen Sep 22, 2020 @ 11:51am 
the exchange of house's tyranny for the players make sense because the story is the players and they are the godlike being who could defeat house and the rest.

yes, that is the same player who unlike house didn't create anything and was too stupid to not be tricked by the mensa squad of benny and the khans..

fallout's universe is one of the most inconsistent and silly in all of crpg, so one might as well just ride with it and proclaim themselves the future just because.
Last edited by dr.rosenrosen; Sep 22, 2020 @ 11:52am
Versa Sep 22, 2020 @ 12:03pm 
Originally posted by corlandom:
the exchange of house's tyranny for the players make sense because the story is the players and they are the godlike being who could defeat house and the rest.

yes, that is the same player who unlike house didn't create anything and was too stupid to not be tricked by the mensa squad of benny and the khans..

fallout's universe is one of the most inconsistent and silly in all of crpg, so one might as well just ride with it and proclaim themselves the future just because.

Well... I don't Fallout is so inconsistent and silly as you said.

Fallout 1 was pretty dark to me and it had a nice lore, but Fallout 2 was waaaaaay more than FO1 (I think I prefer FO2 and NV more than any FO game, lol).

New Vegas is great too, but it's not that dark just like FO1, the game has some light-hearted content in sometimes to me, but it does have some nice lore and things that make the game way more than what you said.

Of course I ain't gonna force you to think about that, I know there are other great RPGs out there (like VTMB), and I do know that Fallout has it's flaws.
Doctor Go-Go Sep 22, 2020 @ 4:20pm 
The moral of the story is ... it's nice to be nice, but why do we have so many laws, keep adding more and loath authority?

Because people are selfish, and malicious. The threat of defamation and being locked up and losing access to ALL of their wonderful material possessions as well as power and social status is what keeps them behaving.

The majority of people are stupid. By the time they notice or understand it's already far too late. They really are cattle that are too foolish for their own good.

I don't like it either, but they prefer to keep people down and dumb for good reasons, to protect them from their own stupidity rather than some convoluted sinister reasons.

People are evil, they must be contained, most can be controlled, but because of the herd mentality they could easily be convinced to do wicked things for simple rewards.

Most of what we know is nothing more than social experiments, mind games, chess. The music we listen to, shows we watch, movies we watch and games we play are telling us what to like, what not to like, who to like, who not to like. Who we should side with and who we should oppose, what to think, what to believe. What to want what not to want. What to buy. Who we should idolize and outcast. How to feel and act. Role modeling.

There are NO good guys. Just ... circumstances. "Nice guys finish last" SO the choice is ... do whatever it takes to win or be the good guy and finish last. ;)
Last edited by Doctor Go-Go; Sep 22, 2020 @ 4:28pm
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Date Posted: Sep 20, 2020 @ 11:52pm
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