Best civ for defensive, wall up, late game player?

[Peek]

I used to play AOE 3 and I have now made the transition to AOE 2. I'm having trouble picking a civ.

Typically I like to wall up (sometimes 3 thick) build up a full army and attack late game. I don't like doing small annoyance attacks and I don't like rushing.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Wasted_46]

best defense civ is IMO the byzantines.

- Their buildings get bonus HP
- their anti land units are cheaper
- their anti ship unit is better
- their monk heal faster.


Other civs to consider:
- Teutons: Better towers
- Britons: their stuff shoots farther so its easier to tower in your base
- Franks: cheaper castle
- Koreans: Good towers and bonus for stone mining
- Maya: Cheap walls, good archers. Their resources also last longer so you could in theory try go full defense and starve the opponent of their resources.
- Incas: Cheaper stone buildings (TC, castle)


Generally I'd advise against defensive play tho. The way the game works is that it rewards agressive expansion and harassing the opponent's economy is the way to get ahead.

[kreexz]

Depends on if you are playing team games or 1v1. In 1v1 gold is a very limited resource late game and I would advice civs with strong trash such as byz or spanish. In team games with trade and thus a stable gold income, these two are still very strong civs, but mongols, celts and turks also join as heavy hitters in thise phase of the game.

[b00nish]

The question is indeed hard to answer generally.

If you search for a late-game civ, you should typically look on how big the tech-tree ist. Byzantines for example have a very good tech tree, but there are also some other civs with big techtrees.

Teutons also have a good techtree and with Crenellations as unique technology (= castle shoots at higher range and garnisoned infantry shoots too), free murder holes and more garnison space in the towers they're defense oriented.
Also the slow but powerful teutonic knight is porobably more a defensive than an offensive unit. So Teutons surely belong to the most defensive civs.

An important question of course is: where do you get your gold from?

In a 1v1 you can't trade, so a defensive playstyle with heavily gold reliant civs (like for example the turks) will get hard. So you should make sure to play a civ with good trash (halbs & elite skirmishers) instead
If gold is no problem because you can trade, you also can go for civs with mostly expensive but powerful units.

However, a purely defensive playstlye is usually not very promising.
You can be lucky with it if your oponnent is unskilful and burns his expensive army against your defense. But generally there are very good ways to crush even the strongest defense in late game.

[Miiiiiiiiiiiiike]

Tuetons are pretty good. 2x arrow output from towers is really good, and makes a fuedal age tower almost like a castle. But once you go heavilty defensive, it is hard to actually end up winning.

[Experienced Noob]

I agree with everyone saying defense isn't the best strategy in this game. I'm typically a very aggressive player. I think the best defense is a good offense. If your enemy is busy trying to defend his town from your attacks, he is much less likely to attack your town.

I also think the game is more fun playing aggressively as well. There's a lot more action and excitement rather than sitting there for 40 minutes making farms and stuff.

I enjoy little skirmishes in Dark and/or Feudal. Then battling in Castle Age, followed by all-out war in Imperial. Games are much more exciting this way.

[hot_gril]

Originally posted by CC.W45T3D:

best defense civ is IMO the byzantines.

- Their buildings get bonus HP
- their anti land units are cheaper
- their anti ship unit is better
- their monk heal faster.


Other civs to consider:
- Teutons: Better towers
- Britons: their stuff shoots farther so its easier to tower in your base
- Franks: cheaper castle
- Koreans: Good towers and bonus for stone mining
- Maya: Cheap walls, good archers. Their resources also last longer so you could in theory try go full defense and starve the opponent of their resources.
- Incas: Cheaper stone buildings (TC, castle)


Generally I'd advise against defensive play tho. The way the game works is that it rewards agressive expansion and harassing the opponent's economy is the way to get ahead.

There's also the Turks. Their janissaries have lots of range and have the upper hand in very large battles. They also get long-ranged bombard cannons, which protect against enemy siege weapons and archers.

I still like the Byzantines a lot better for defense on a normal map, but Turks are better for defensive Black Forest. When it's THAT cramped, not much can capture a position held by a buttload of janissaries, even Byzantine skirmishers. The Byzantines end up hitting the population cap with their cheap halbs and skirms.

[Lisztomaniak]

Ok I'm quite late with this but, I simply don't see why many people would advise against a defensive playstyle.. I literally always play a defensive playstyle and there's only one secret to it: bombard towers. I usually pick the Teutons, vs ai on hardest you just gotta make sure you have a good economy flowing. Once you reach the castle age you can start building castles at crucial defensive spots. Make sure you create a few teutonic knights and some cavalry to take care off siege units attacking your castles. send in cavalry first if they arent attacking with pikemen first, which they nearly always do. Then send in your teutonic knights. They literally decimate pikemen. 1 teutonic knight can single handedly take out atleast 5 pikemen. Once the pikemen are gone you can send in the cavalry. After that it's all about getting to the imperial age safely. Once you reach the imperial age you basically win. I usually try and mine as much stone ( and gold ) in the feudal and castle age. Make sure you create up to 100 villagers. Around 20-40 Teutonic knights, around 20-40 paladins, around 20-40 handcannoneers and 5-10 monks. Start massbuilding bombard towers. When I say mass building I do mean you have to create a LOT of bombard towers. I usually create about 50-100 encircling my lands. I know this costs a ton of resources so try and cover the most dangerous spots first as it takes time to get this wall of bombardment created. You should keep in mind that when the Ai attacks with trebuchets, they still send in lots of thrash who just runs into your line of fire and dies on the spot. You might lose a tower ( I rarely lose more than 1 tower when the ai attacks on hardest ) but this does give you time to send out your cavelry to take care of the trebuchets. Do remember that cavalry is not the only way to take care of enemy trebuchets, your own trebuchets/bombard cannons are fit for the job as well. Because this way of playing takes an enermous amount of time I usually build a wonder to be done with it and win the game. Some people ( including myself actually ) do prefer to attack themselves. This is possible but it's hard. I would advise attacking when your economy is at it's peak. Meaning you can delete some villagers to create more infantry/cavalry. The strength of Teutonic offense imo comes from the handcannoneers, taunt your enemy close to it's lands to make him empty them. You can manually control the volley's to pick your enemy's troops off a few at the time ( handcannoneers do collateral damage ). If thinks are about too get a bit heavy, which normally only happens when they send in cavalry. Send in 30-50 teutonic knights and watch them take out the strongest infantry and cavalry with ease. Create about 5-8 monks to heal your troops while in combat and everything should be fine. This playstyle has always worked for me even when I'm faced with 7 ai hardest difficulty. This still works like a charm. If you wanna get used to this playstyle I recommend playing a map with islands. Bombard towers 1 shot ships with the heated shot technology and makes for an easy defense. You just gotta create a safespot to make around 20-30 fireships to take care of any canon galleons shooting at your towers. ( keep in mind you don't have to start doing this that early+ the fact that again, trebuchets and bombard cannons will do the job too.

Whenever I am done creating my bombard defense and am about to start building a wonder. I just need to set 10-20 villagers on building the wonder and I can bring out the popcorn watching them fall 1 by 1 trying to breach through my defenses. When I've designed a spot for my wonder I don't manually have to do anything anymore to win the game. Even 7 AI on hardest can't get through. I hope I have inspired some people to take the defensive playstyle afterall since for me, it is the most fun way of playing AOEII.

[NIKFS]

Originally posted by Number 6:

Ok I'm quite late with this but, I simply don't see why many people would advise against a defensive playstyle.. I literally always play a defensive playstyle and there's only one secret to it: bombard towers. I usually pick the Teutons, vs ai on hardest you just gotta make sure you have a good economy flowing. Once you reach the castle age you can start building castles at crucial defensive spots. Make sure you create a few teutonic knights and some cavalry to take care off siege units attacking your castles. send in cavalry first if they arent attacking with pikemen first, which they nearly always do. Then send in your teutonic knights. They literally decimate pikemen. 1 teutonic knight can single handedly take out atleast 5 pikemen. Once the pikemen are gone you can send in the cavalry. After that it's all about getting to the imperial age safely. Once you reach the imperial age you basically win. I usually try and mine as much stone ( and gold ) in the feudal and castle age. Make sure you create up to 100 villagers. Around 20-40 Teutonic knights, around 20-40 paladins, around 20-40 handcannoneers and 5-10 monks. Start massbuilding bombard towers. When I say mass building I do mean you have to create a LOT of bombard towers. I usually create about 50-100 encircling my lands. I know this costs a ton of resources so try and cover the most dangerous spots first as it takes time to get this wall of bombardment created. You should keep in mind that when the Ai attacks with trebuchets, they still send in lots of thrash who just runs into your line of fire and dies on the spot. You might lose a tower ( I rarely lose more than 1 tower when the ai attacks on hardest ) but this does give you time to send out your cavelry to take care of the trebuchets. Do remember that cavalry is not the only way to take care of enemy trebuchets, your own trebuchets/bombard cannons are fit for the job as well. Because this way of playing takes an enermous amount of time I usually build a wonder to be done with it and win the game. Some people ( including myself actually ) do prefer to attack themselves. This is possible but it's hard. I would advise attacking when your economy is at it's peak. Meaning you can delete some villagers to create more infantry/cavalry. The strength of Teutonic offense imo comes from the handcannoneers, taunt your enemy close to it's lands to make him empty them. You can manually control the volley's to pick your enemy's troops off a few at the time ( handcannoneers do collateral damage ). If thinks are about too get a bit heavy, which normally only happens when they send in cavalry. Send in 30-50 teutonic knights and watch them take out the strongest infantry and cavalry with ease. Create about 5-8 monks to heal your troops while in combat and everything should be fine. This playstyle has always worked for me even when I'm faced with 7 ai hardest difficulty. This still works like a charm. If you wanna get used to this playstyle I recommend playing a map with islands. Bombard towers 1 shot ships with the heated shot technology and makes for an easy defense. You just gotta create a safespot to make around 20-30 fireships to take care of any canon galleons shooting at your towers. ( keep in mind you don't have to start doing this that early+ the fact that again, trebuchets and bombard cannons will do the job too.

Whenever I am done creating my bombard defense and am about to start building a wonder. I just need to set 10-20 villagers on building the wonder and I can bring out the popcorn watching them fall 1 by 1 trying to breach through my defenses. When I've designed a spot for my wonder I don't manually have to do anything anymore to win the game. Even 7 AI on hardest can't get through. I hope I have inspired some people to take the defensive playstyle afterall since for me, it is the most fun way of playing AOEII.

Its generally thought as bad because this doesnt work against humans, you wont even get to bombard cannon towers by the time your opponent rushed you, if he gets your economy to take a slight hit and you just dont care and play on his eco is a bit better aince he has less idle time and dead vills, this becomes a snowball effect and with every kill he gets in your eco Ou lag farther behind
He probably ends you by the time he goes castle if you dont attack him yourself

This is the reason its not really useful, against the ai its a different matter as against the ai its possible to play that way, did the vs. 7 achievement the same way

[Maine Cheldan]

I'd say Bombard Cannons and Trebuchets could also be used as defense units. Especially Trebuchets since they don't move when built and ready to fire.

It might seem a little weird at first, but see it that way : these units have the greatest range and deal a lot of damage. Sure, even with Balistics they don't have many chances of hitting an enemy that moves faster than a Monk (and I don't think they're that good at hitting walking Monks). But they can take out the enemy's siege weapons, like Onagers, or Trebuchets that are used against your castle.

And not all civilizations can convert Bombard Cannons and Trebuchets.

I'd recommend keeping a bunch of Villagers around to repair them if needed.

[Saint_Michaels_]

I would strongly recommend not playing the Turks, especially if you are just getting into AoE2. They're one of the hardest civilizations to play effectivly and are one of the worst in 1v1 play.

As people said, Byzantines, Mayans & Incans (If you have the expansion) are probably the best picks because they're pretty all around good overall with a defensive flair to them. Koreans and Teutons are also good picks because those civilizations have a pure defensive playstyle.


Edit: Holy crap I didn't notice how old this thread was. Oh well, whatever.

[NIKFS]

Originally posted by St. Michaels:

I would strongly recommend not playing the Turks, especially if you are just getting into AoE2. They're one of the hardest civilizations to play effectivly and are one of the worst in 1v1 play.

As people said, Byzantines, Mayans & Incans (If you have the expansion) are probably the best picks because they're pretty all around good overall with a defensive flair to them. Koreans and Teutons are also good picks because those civilizations have a pure defensive playstyle.


Edit: Holy crap I didn't notice how old this thread was. Oh well, whatever.

Yeah, the one who necroed it mentioned it too to be late but well it didnt really mattered as the balance didnt change that much from back then

[Lisztomaniak]

Originally posted by NIK_F_S:

Originally posted by Number 6:

Ok I'm quite late with this but, I simply don't see why many people would advise against a defensive playstyle.. I literally always play a defensive playstyle and there's only one secret to it: bombard towers. I usually pick the Teutons, vs ai on hardest you just gotta make sure you have a good economy flowing. Once you reach the castle age you can start building castles at crucial defensive spots. Make sure you create a few teutonic knights and some cavalry to take care off siege units attacking your castles. send in cavalry first if they arent attacking with pikemen first, which they nearly always do. Then send in your teutonic knights. They literally decimate pikemen. 1 teutonic knight can single handedly take out atleast 5 pikemen. Once the pikemen are gone you can send in the cavalry. After that it's all about getting to the imperial age safely. Once you reach the imperial age you basically win. I usually try and mine as much stone ( and gold ) in the feudal and castle age. Make sure you create up to 100 villagers. Around 20-40 Teutonic knights, around 20-40 paladins, around 20-40 handcannoneers and 5-10 monks. Start massbuilding bombard towers. When I say mass building I do mean you have to create a LOT of bombard towers. I usually create about 50-100 encircling my lands. I know this costs a ton of resources so try and cover the most dangerous spots first as it takes time to get this wall of bombardment created. You should keep in mind that when the Ai attacks with trebuchets, they still send in lots of thrash who just runs into your line of fire and dies on the spot. You might lose a tower ( I rarely lose more than 1 tower when the ai attacks on hardest ) but this does give you time to send out your cavelry to take care of the trebuchets. Do remember that cavalry is not the only way to take care of enemy trebuchets, your own trebuchets/bombard cannons are fit for the job as well. Because this way of playing takes an enermous amount of time I usually build a wonder to be done with it and win the game. Some people ( including myself actually ) do prefer to attack themselves. This is possible but it's hard. I would advise attacking when your economy is at it's peak. Meaning you can delete some villagers to create more infantry/cavalry. The strength of Teutonic offense imo comes from the handcannoneers, taunt your enemy close to it's lands to make him empty them. You can manually control the volley's to pick your enemy's troops off a few at the time ( handcannoneers do collateral damage ). If thinks are about too get a bit heavy, which normally only happens when they send in cavalry. Send in 30-50 teutonic knights and watch them take out the strongest infantry and cavalry with ease. Create about 5-8 monks to heal your troops while in combat and everything should be fine. This playstyle has always worked for me even when I'm faced with 7 ai hardest difficulty. This still works like a charm. If you wanna get used to this playstyle I recommend playing a map with islands. Bombard towers 1 shot ships with the heated shot technology and makes for an easy defense. You just gotta create a safespot to make around 20-30 fireships to take care of any canon galleons shooting at your towers. ( keep in mind you don't have to start doing this that early+ the fact that again, trebuchets and bombard cannons will do the job too.

Whenever I am done creating my bombard defense and am about to start building a wonder. I just need to set 10-20 villagers on building the wonder and I can bring out the popcorn watching them fall 1 by 1 trying to breach through my defenses. When I've designed a spot for my wonder I don't manually have to do anything anymore to win the game. Even 7 AI on hardest can't get through. I hope I have inspired some people to take the defensive playstyle afterall since for me, it is the most fun way of playing AOEII.

Its generally thought as bad because this doesnt work against humans, you wont even get to bombard cannon towers by the time your opponent rushed you, if he gets your economy to take a slight hit and you just dont care and play on his eco is a bit better aince he has less idle time and dead vills, this becomes a snowball effect and with every kill he gets in your eco Ou lag farther behind
He probably ends you by the time he goes castle if you dont attack him yourself

This is the reason its not really useful, against the ai its a different matter as against the ai its possible to play that way, did the vs. 7 achievement the same way

Hm I get your point here. Still I have practised this playstyle for a really long time and early rushers usually dont do that well vs me. Teutons can create crossbowmen as well which helps a lot against pikemen. After the rushers pikemen are down I can still send in my knights. Because of the way the techtree works you can research the first few with nearly only food, after that they will start costing more and start costing gold. With the resource dependent playstyle I'm using I can usually get a lot of techs in in a short time. To counter these rushes you ought to make a lot of barracks/archery ranges/stables so you can produce your units faster. Also I position my castles quite well which means there is nearly no way for my opponent to reach me without passing my castle. I also try and put my 11th or 12th villager on stone mining so I can start building a castle the very second I enter the castle age. The key to doing this properly is villager management. But the truth is it is very hard to play a defensive playstyle vs actual humans. Though I think in due time and practice someone who really feels like he is a defensive player can actually mount a great defense and win the game with it.

[The Very Hungry Caterpillar]

Inca would be good for this strategy in a 1v1. Don't try doing this in a team game though. Their late team game is arguably the worst in the game.

[↯Zindy⛦]

Chinese get the best walls

[Zetnus]

If play with the "standard" victory condition, rather than with "conquest", then a purely defensive play style can work if you are able to pull off the wonder victory without getting overrun.