Teutons Tech tree

[Empire]

Why is it that Teutons have champions? In what situation do you think a champion would be more beneficial over a teutonic knight when considering the rest of their tech tree? Also How beneficial is Crenellations really as a tech? I understand the range helps for fighting bombards but what are the effects of the garrisoned infantry bonus? How does garrisoning anything other than villigars help you? Is it only a defensive tech given the current meta?

[TriRem]

Champs are better at fighting eagles because ETK are slow as hell. Also if you don't have a castle.

The infantry garrison part of crenellations is mostly useless, the tech is used for the range increase.

[Matthew]

You are right that you are very unlikely to make champions if you have TK's.

There is the minor point of stone being relatively limited compared to wood, though TK's train about twice as fast so unless you are in a crazy game where you are training champions from 6+ rax it isn't that much of a point.

There is also a minor point of TK's being slower than champions. Though if you are making either then it is likely it is end game and you are using them to flood an enemy base. If you need a more mobile force, you won't be making either.

But in the end, it would be kind of silly to remove champions from Teuton tech tree on that basis.

[talgaby]

Champions are faster and in the expansions, they have arson as well. They cost a lot less gold and they can be created at a very common and cheap building, much faster than a TKnight.
The truth is, Tknights are pretty rare units on the field, since their only valid role is to advance on a town and gradually grind it up, also eliminating all melee opposition.

[Alliesaurus]

Originally posted by TriRem:

Champs are better at fighting eagles because ETK are slow as hell. Also if you don't have a castle.

The infantry garrison part of crenellations is mostly useless, the tech is used for the range increase.

Archers increase the number of arrows fired when garrisoned, the crenellations tech allows non archer infantry to increase the number of arrows fired, it's the number in brackets next to attack

[TriRem]

Originally posted by Ne0NBuRn3R SCO:

Originally posted by TriRem:

Champs are better at fighting eagles because ETK are slow as hell. Also if you don't have a castle.

The infantry garrison part of crenellations is mostly useless, the tech is used for the range increase.

Archers increase the number of arrows fired when garrisoned, the crenellations tech allows non archer infantry to increase the number of arrows fired, it's the number in brackets next to attack

I know, but it's useless. I've never seen anyone take advantage of garrisoning infantry.

[Alliesaurus]

Originally posted by TriRem:

Originally posted by Ne0NBuRn3R SCO:

Archers increase the number of arrows fired when garrisoned, the crenellations tech allows non archer infantry to increase the number of arrows fired, it's the number in brackets next to attack

I know, but it's useless. I've never seen anyone take advantage of garrisoning infantry.

I sometimes use it i if my villagers are out far near my knights and build a keep or castle lol, japan has a similar tech but it increases arrow fire from towers not range

[NIKFS]

Originally posted by talgaby:

Champions are faster and in the expansions, they have arson as well. They cost a lot less gold and they can be created at a very common and cheap building, much faster than a TKnight.
The truth is, Tknights are pretty rare units on the field, since their only valid role is to advance on a town and gradually grind it up, also eliminating all melee opposition.

i always saw them as a siege unit that costs food instead of wood but is more affected by arrow fire but less by melee units

[Divine Porcupine!]

first off teutons are the kings of garrison. there are 2 reasons to garrison units. 1 boost the attack of the building, 2 provide protection of those units. in this case Crenellations allow infantry to fire more arrow while they heal up instead of taking damage. if you goal is to boost the attack of your builds then fill them up with hand-cannons as they provide the most arrows & teuton is the only civ where your bombard tower can fire 2 cannon balls when full of handcannons. (3 if it's jannisaries inside from a turk ally)

teutonic knights are a defensive unit due to their lack of speed, they are great at holding gates/choke points but i would almost never put them offence unless the enemy only have units with low base attack. (skirmishers, halbs, eagles, camels, scouts). having champions let the teutons have a more offensive infantry when they want to attack.

in general the teutons are my favorite civ and for good reason. in feudal age, not only do they have the best defence but their farm bonus lets the have one of the strongest feudal rushes in the game. in castle age iron clad tech gives them the strongest siege unit in castle age (protecting their weakness to melee units). in imperial age you have paladins, teutonic knights, halbs, hand cannons, siege onagers, & bombard cannons. these are the strongest counters to infantry, foot archers, non-ranged cavalry, and siege. honestly the only thing the teutons have to worry about are cav-archer civs, fortunately most people don't use cav-archers unless they play the mongols.

[NIKFS]

Originally posted by yoda hulk:

first off teutons are the kings of garrison. there are 2 reasons to garrison units. 1 boost the attack of the building, 2 provide protection of those units. in this case Crenellations allow infantry to fire more arrow while they heal up instead of taking damage. if you goal is to boost the attack of your builds then fill them up with hand-cannons as they provide the most arrows & teuton is the only civ where your bombard tower can fire 2 cannon balls when full of handcannons. (3 if it's jannisaries inside from a turk ally)

teutonic knights are a defensive unit due to their lack of speed, they are great at holding gates/choke points but i would almost never put them offence unless the enemy only have units with low base attack. (skirmishers, halbs, eagles, camels, scouts). having champions let the teutons have a more offensive infantry when they want to attack.

in general the teutons are my favorite civ and for good reason. in feudal age, not only do they have the best defence but their farm bonus lets the have one of the strongest feudal rushes in the game. in castle age iron clad tech gives them the strongest siege unit in castle age (protecting their weakness to melee units). in imperial age you have paladins, teutonic knights, halbs, hand cannons, siege onagers, & bombard cannons. these are the strongest counters to infantry, foot archers, non-ranged cavalry, and siege. honestly the only thing the teutons have to worry about are cav-archer civs, fortunately most people don't use cav-archers unless they play the mongols.

try putting teutonic knights into rams, makes the ram faster and is quite the defense bonus for the rams if you ungarrison them

[The Very Hungry Caterpillar]

If Crenelations used Infantries attack value instead of counting them as a villager then garrisoned Teutonic fortifications might see more use. A slow push of Bombard Towers and Teutonic knights would be strong. (Although the Teutons do not need a late game buff.)

[Divine Porcupine!]

Originally posted by NIK_F_S:

try putting teutonic knights into rams, makes the ram faster and is quite the defense bonus for the rams if you ungarrison them

i still prefer champions or halbs on offence. since they are faster & cheaper. and i greatly prefer bombard cannons over rams as they can be used both defensively and offensively. if the enemy as enough troops rams will not be able to push through and do their job of taking out the buildings, bombards can always take out the buildings.

[NIKFS]

Originally posted by yoda hulk:

Originally posted by NIK_F_S:

try putting teutonic knights into rams, makes the ram faster and is quite the defense bonus for the rams if you ungarrison them

i still prefer champions or halbs on offence. since they are faster & cheaper. and i greatly prefer bombard cannons over rams as they can be used both defensively and offensively. if the enemy as enough troops rams will not be able to push through and do their job of taking out the buildings, bombards can always take out the buildings.

True, not having much experience with using the teutons in mp, imprefer archer civs