Am I the only one who despises roll on release?

[Some immortal blob creature]

Like honestly, when I press the roll button I do so because I want to roll when I press the button, not because I want to roll after I stop pressing the button and the game realizes I pressed the button to roll and not to run. For some reason whenever I say something like this people act like I just said that being able to move in games is bad or something equally stupid but I'm not wrong am I; less input delay is almost universally considered to be better and making roll on press lowers input delay so why is this so unpopular?
Of course I know that it's this way because run and roll are on the same button but this is a terrible excuse as they shouldn't be binded together in the first place. Roll could easilly fit on interact or something as that one doesn't need to be very precise it just needs to be so that you won't enter a sprint when you're trying to pick something up in the heat of combat which wouldn't be an issue as fromsoft already nailed that in the roll delay in the first place. And even if I grant that this is the only way for the controlls to work it still wouldn't excuse it from being a flaw because it arguably, objectively is.

[Senki]

I agree that roll on button press would be better but I don't exactly despise the current one either. I guess I just got used to it and it doesn't feel bad to me.

[Victor the wildlife hunter]

as a keyboard and mouse player , i prefer a separate button to roll but that's not going to happen ever .

[Crest]

Originally posted by Victor Bro:

as a keyboard and mouse player , i prefer a separate button to roll but that's not going to happen ever .

you can use tool to seperate dodge and sprint you know. but roll delay still remains

[Some immortal blob creature]

Originally posted by Senki:

I agree that roll on button press would be better but I don't exactly despise the current one either. I guess I just got used to it and it doesn't feel bad to me.

That's fair, I honestly just felt like venting about this as I just can't seem to get used to roll on release which makes learning boss patterns very tedious.

[John Titor]

Originally posted by Some immortal blob creature:

Originally posted by Senki:

I agree that roll on button press would be better but I don't exactly despise the current one either. I guess I just got used to it and it doesn't feel bad to me.

That's fair, I honestly just felt like venting about this as I just can't seem to get used to roll on release which makes learning boss patterns very tedious.

There are a lot more delayed attacks with awkward timings than in previous souls. Use "roll-on-release" to your advantage.

[Sabaithal]

Yeah, its really a hindrance when you're trying to do the whole "face-paced REACTIVE combat" thing. Its compounded in this game if you get low framerates on top of that.

I use a controller config (it works on xbox controllers too) to separate dodge and sprint, which also slightly reduces the input delay for dodge as a result. It does help a bit.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2774153746

[Some immortal blob creature]

Originally posted by csand:

Tap it quickly to roll, hold it to sprint. It's really not bad
To be sure, roll on release is not the reason monsters or players are mopping the floor w you

I have several hundreds of hours in darksouls games and monster hunter games, in MH I don't have much issue dodging on reaction because it has the dodge on button press it's only in fromsoft games that I have this much issue with the timing. You don't know my experience with games yet you make assumptions like these, it's asshats like you that give darksouls fans a bad rep.

[paladin181]

Originally posted by Some immortal blob creature:

Originally posted by csand:

Tap it quickly to roll, hold it to sprint. It's really not bad
To be sure, roll on release is not the reason monsters or players are mopping the floor w you

I have several hundreds of hours in darksouls games and monster hunter games, in MH I don't have much issue dodging on reaction because it has the dodge on button press it's only in fromsoft games that I have this much issue with the timing. You don't know my experience with games yet you make assumptions like these, it's asshats like you that give darksouls fans a bad rep.

And all previous Dark Souls have the same control scheme. Hold (B) (or Circle) to sprint. Press to dodge. This has been the way since Demon's Souls.

[Crest]

Originally posted by Some immortal blob creature:

Originally posted by csand:

Tap it quickly to roll, hold it to sprint. It's really not bad
To be sure, roll on release is not the reason monsters or players are mopping the floor w you

I have several hundreds of hours in darksouls games and monster hunter games, in MH I don't have much issue dodging on reaction because it has the dodge on button press it's only in fromsoft games that I have this much issue with the timing. You don't know my experience with games yet you make assumptions like these, it's asshats like you that give darksouls fans a bad rep.

capcom really did a better job than fromsoft despite both came from Japan
control, no dodge delay, no force target lock, better netcode....

[Some immortal blob creature]

Originally posted by paladin181:

Originally posted by Some immortal blob creature:

I have several hundreds of hours in darksouls games and monster hunter games, in MH I don't have much issue dodging on reaction because it has the dodge on button press it's only in fromsoft games that I have this much issue with the timing. You don't know my experience with games yet you make assumptions like these, it's asshats like you that give darksouls fans a bad rep.

And all previous Dark Souls have the same control scheme. Hold (B) (or Circle) to sprint. Press to dodge. This has been the way since Demon's Souls.

I never stated otherwise, what's your point?

[Crest]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by Crest:

capcom really did a better job than fromsoft despite both came from Japan
control, no dodge delay, no force target lock, better netcode....

There is neither a dodge delay, nor forced target lock, in any souls games.

the forced target lock means when you lock on a target, your camera is forced yo look at the target, can't move to look away. and all souls game have delay dodge. what are you talking about?
and i played both games. i like both games. that doesn't mean im forbidden to criticize the bad things in the game

[Crest]

Originally posted by csand:

That's the whole point of a target lock, lol. Otherwise.. Just don't lock on and the problem is solved. I realize it sucks a bit on kb+m but for better or worse the game is designed for a controller and target lock works fantastically on one.

in MH you could move camera while look around to see your surrounding while your character aiming at the monster

Originally posted by csand:

I have no delay in dodging. If I need to doge, I tap the button and it happens instantly. Not sure what you're talking about there. Also maybe that's a kb+m thing (assuming you are using kb+m)

not just kbm, console control also have dodge delay
https://youtu.be/ZqDNL4ryx7A
https://youtu.be/KL3t_3pWKY0
https://youtu.be/nwEwmoe2kfo

[Some immortal blob creature]

Originally posted by csand:

Originally posted by Crest:

the forced target lock means when you lock on a target, your camera is forced yo look at the target, can't move to look away. and all souls game have delay dodge. what are you talking about?

That's the whole point of a target lock, lol. Otherwise.. Just don't lock on and the problem is solved. I realize it sucks a bit on kb+m but for better or worse the game is designed for a controller and target lock works fantastically on one.

I have no delay in dodging. If I need to doge, I tap the button and it happens instantly. Not sure what you're talking about there. Also maybe that's a kb+m thing (assuming you are using kb+m)

You don't notice a dodge delay because you got used to it, that doesn't mean you're better or worse for it but the delay is very real and for some like myself it's very noticable. My frustration comes from how few people are willing to accept that there's a delay in the dodge roll and that it effects some players, more often than not the persons skill is brought into question regardless of their criticism or actual skill. The target lock that you just mentioned is a great example off this issue actually, some people can't get used to auto target lock so there's an option to turn it off which can help those people but the same kindness isn't granted towards people who can't get used to dodge on release and for the record, no this isn't a kb+m thing, I play on controller.

Edit: I just realized that what they meant with the forced lock is that when you lock on to an enemy all of your actions are centered around that enemy, MH doesn't have this, locking on only centers the camera all of your moves are still independent of the enemy.

[Casval Zem Daikun]

Plenty of other games do it better but we can't exactly ask for innovation when a 10 year old formula still sells copies.

[Walrus-Sama]

It does bother me, though I've kind of just got used to it at this point, and don't expect it to change.

I've recently completed a Rune Level 1 playthrough, so I've got some decent knowledge attack and dodging timings in this game.

The main issue with Dodge on Release, is that there is a small, but noticable, delay. For most attacks this isn't too much of a problem as you just learn to dodge early. However, there are a small handful of attacks/combo followups that come out so quick they are functionally undodgable on reaction because of the small delay. You can press the button when you see the move, but that tiny delay created by having to release the button means you get hit.

This wasn't so much of a problem in the older games as they were slower, pretty much everything could be dodged on reaction even with the delay. Since DS3, the pace of the combat has gotten faster in these games. Attacks are much faster, more aggressive, with multi-hit combos. The games are just a lot less forgiving with their timings and the small delay from Dodge on Release becomes a lot more noticable.