First for those that don't know this mod is just 1 small feature from my MarsX mod and I'm probably already going to add hydration to MarsX because it already has ice processing, irrigation systems, humidity, humidity extraction, water usage on sewage systems, water storage. MarsX is where i want to do all of the hardcore simulated stuff because it replaces combat.

I might setup hydration so that it falls and rises based on how full the pawn is, so if they eat a meal and food is 100% then hydration will start to rise over time but not fast enough to max out if they are only eating food. That would remove the need to track actual water quantities in every type of food so its nice and simple, then i would just have to add a new job giver in the pawns SatisfyingNeeds ai tree before food which would force them to regularly consume water from fountains and canteens and whatnot.

Now the issue with all of that is that I wanted to keep the hygiene standalone mod fairly simple, so its more accessible to people as an easy to use main stream vanilla mod, and not overwhelming when combined with the rest of rimworld and the hundreds of other mods people install. So no calculation for individual units of water or sewage, just simple percentages that are easy to manage at a glance, and no complicated water collection so people dont find it a chore and can just have pretty bathrooms. And people already complain about pawns wasting time running off to the bathroom half way through a job so if i add hydration that will add yet another job for them to do multiple times a day. And with vanilla rimworld mods i have to cater to the people that want to do tribal medieval and futuristic game modes so the number of variables starts to stack up and takes a lot of time. You also start to run out of space on the needs tab when you add more than 2 extra needs and have to override and resize the tab like i do in mars because of the extra fitness need.

So i probably wont add detailed water collection and hydration to the hygiene mod any time soon and its best to just imagine they are getting a drink with their meals, there is a lot of other stuff in rimworld that just magics out of thin air like ammo, socks and dinner plates so its best not to think about that kind of stuff at that kind of micro level, and focus more on the general flow of daily routine, asthetics and the mood buffs and debuffs. Mainly i think people just like having some bathrooms in their colony which get used occasionally for the character and atmosphere but don't really want to have to micro manage the stats like a hardcore survival game, and coding some kind of "hardcore" mode isn't possible in the time i have.

So thats why i made MarsX, so I can go nuts with the detail because its a total conversion and i control everything, there are no animals or other colonies or biomes or tech levels to worry about coding for, nd the whole point of the mod is to micro the hell out of every little drip of resources including stuff like recycling waste for water.

There are some things i can add to this hygiene mod but i will mostly be focusing on amenities to make colonies feel more natural and homely, i can add extra ways to dispose of waste, i want to improve the central heating and cooling, and i can add a set of buildings that are required to collect water like ground water pumps, fresh water inlet from rivers, water towers, probably not desalination, just 1 simple extra requirement for the plumbed fixtures to work.

I like cities skylines and really really hoped the new river system in A17 would have a basic level of simulation for something like boats so i could piggyback it to do some kind of sewage flow but rivers are just basic floor tiles, i have a sneaking suspicion that he intends to do something more with the rivers else he wouldn't have bothered putting them in so i'll wait a bit for that.

I would really like to do something like a water table and pollution grids, so when you are placing some type of water collection building you would see the areas where ground water exists with rivers obviously being 100%, exactly the same as mining drills, and the same for pollution from sewage. then if sewage and water collection overlap that can be used to randomly trigger diseases, could give debuffs for bad smells that kind of thing. The sewage could gradually reduce in value over time using the simple steady cell effect function that toxic fallout uses and water would just be a static value so you dont have to worry about it running dry.

Sound good?

Hm, that's why I partially suggested it being a separate mod to this one, because while MarsX is great and all, many players (like myself) run with a collection of lots of mods that just work together really well. For example, you mention ammo and socks appearing from nowhere; I actually have those in my game due to Combat Extended and Boots and Stuff.

The ideas just came to me when I woke up and I thought they might fit in most with this mod, though it's so much new content that it seems most of it would be most appropriate in a standalone mod. I, like many people, can't use MarsX as it would conflict with the mods I already use.

It would be ideal to hear some opinions from other players to determine if this would be something people want. Perhaps some of the ideas could be added to this mod, some scrapped and/or some placed in a new addon-style mod.

I think all that sounds really good, but it might be a good idea to split MarsX into modules that all work together but don't require each other except for the base mod. I've seen lots of mods for games do that sort of thing; Thermal Expansion for Minecraft works similarly, with Thermal Foundation being the base mod and Thermal Expansion and Thermal Dynamics as separate modules. I think compartmentalising MarsX into modules would make it loads easier for players to pick and choose which parts they want and don't want with the added bonus of making it a little more compatible with other mods.

I imagine it would also make it easier for you to add features to it if it's split into bitesize chunks. So what do you think of breaking MarsX up into modules? (Hygiene and Central Heating would be one of them.)

The problem is that its not really the same as a big mod for the base game because its a total conversion, an example of something i could split into parts is if i made the central heating and hygiene parts of this mod each their own mods because they are already designed to work in the vanilla game and they dont really interact with each other they just co exist. And i plan to do that for A18. But making those features for mars is like making them for a whole different game, all of the materials in mars are different, its all underground ice instead of rivers and oceans, textures are different, the processing is different, the only thing thats the same is the fixtures but i probably wont even have baths because they would waste too much water on mars.

So if i were to make a hydration mod it would have to be a fully featured, standalone mod, with its own buildings and textures to cover all technology levels and biomes, which integrates seemlessly with my hygiene mod. If i get hydration added to mars and it works well and i have hundreds of people asking for a standalone of it then i could maybe put in the time to do it. I would kind of rather do my oil drilling mod based off the plastics production in mars instead of something like hydration though because a hydration need is something that you just plop down 1 building and its solved, my oil drilling mod would add a whole new resource for constructing stuff with or using for fuel, which would be cool for the vehicles coming in A18 too

Hm, good point.

Perhaps the hydration being a separate mod isn't such a great idea. I do however still think that water intakes for this mod would be good, because currently the water is just... there. I would love to have a water tower that fills up whenever it rains, so if we had a dry spell we'd run out of water and have to use latrines. I think that would add some extra depth and difficulty on certain maps.

You're right, there are better things to be using your time for. Oil sounds like something that definitely belongs in RimWorld, it's a way to make polymers, fuel, dyes, lubricants and asphalt/tarmac. Can I suggest, for your oil drilling mod, that the oil only exist in certain map tiles, not all of them? Resources specific to certain map tiles gives more reason to set up satellite colonies.

I'll start messing with water intake before next patch while im messing with the central heating, it will just all be the same kind of percentage usage system rather than counting units of water, probably copy skylines so you just plop the inlet on a river or a ground pump tower and then you get capacity, build fixtures and they use the capacity, you dump the sewage into the river or sea, or dump it into the ground which can then pollute your ground water. Then the sewage processing system will have another bonus of turning sewage capactiy into water capacity which was kind of the original intent because there was only sewage processing originally. You wont need any water collection for tribal runs because only the plumbed fixtures will need it, but really if you want to play tribal just go play banished and save me having to add medieval stuff to all my mods

As for oil drilling i thought it up last year when writing up features for mars and just haven't had time to do it. Mars will have polymer production using extraction of compounds from the atmosphere combined with the hydrogen from water and then you will produce things using 3d printers, or just sheets of plastic for building, for a vanilla mod i would just rename and retexture the ice extraction to oil drilling, toss in refining into plastics and chemfuel and job done. I liked all of the chain of production stuff from oil to plastic to processors in sim city 5 so i just wanted to get a bit of that going in rimworld, so its sort of somewhere between the sims and sim city 5. I could do stuff like add a component recipe that uses half steel half plastic so it works easily with existing cost lists from vanilla and mods, then in Rimatomics you could deal with the huge component costs by using plastic, and i think if i just make plastic a woody stuff class then that should cover all of the stuff based buildings rather than have to inject a new stuff type into everything, would also work with modded buildings doing that.

I posted this on the forum and figured i should paste it in here too.

First off the research for everything will all be completed by default on classic start or higher, only tribals will have to research it, it makes more sense like that because you start with air conditioning on classic starts anyway. And the stats for bathroom impressiveness will be tweaked so its easier to get the mood buffs, i was lazy and ripped off the code for bedrooms and it requires too much stuff to get a good stat so just need to tweak it, i have also done some bug fixes which probably fixed some of the bugs people have been reporting, i was tracking and fixing them on the steam version.

Water & Sewage
You have a sewage grid and capacity and a water grid and capacity, you can place the sewage outlet on rivers, lakes or oceans and it gives you capacity, you can place a sewage drain on land which has a circle that expands over time, every x00 ticks it will push some sewage into the sewage grid within that circle, the sewage grid wont change the appearance of tiles and will be displayed with an overlay by clicking on any sewage drain or outlet, a steady cell effect function on the map component will constantly reduce the sewage value in random cells, the amount reduced will be multiplied depending on the tile so water tiles will be very fast. If you deconstruct the sewage drain or outlet the sewage will clean up over time. The total value of sewage in the grid can be used to trigger incidents like bad smells or disease.

For fresh water capacity you place an inlet on rivers, lakes or oceans, or you place a water tower on land, the water grid will show you the location of ground water where the tower can be placed, for sea ice it will let you place it anywhere just to keep it simple. The ground water isn't used up and does not need replenishing from rain or rivers, and no units of water are tracked or stored in tanks. The important thing will be to avoid overlapping water intake with sewage outflow, which will pollute the water and then trigger bad smells or disease. The water treatment system will then become useful as a way to convert sewage capacity back into water capacity, to balance that out it will need to be very large, smelly and use lots of power.

Once all of that is done the mod should be somewhere between the sims and sim city, sims scale hygiene and bladder needs with sim city scale water and sewage capacity, i prefer that kind of setup over a survival game style where you have to collect every drop of water using rain collectors and such, and its the easiest way to get it working on all biomes.

Central heating
The radiators in the current version actually have a pretty serious bug when it comes to checking room size, the bigger the room the less units of heat they use because i missed out a divide by cell count, but that's all fixed now because i have re-coded the whole thing.

Instead of being units of heat that get pushed around, its more like the sewage with a percentage capacity, the radiators then have a flat heating rate that is multiplied by the current capacity on the pipes, so 50% capacity means the heaters heat output is halved. They also take time to heat up and cool down, so when a heater is turned on the radiators quickly heat up to the current capacity, then when heaters are turned off it slowly floats down to 0. The immersion heater has a power setting of 250w to 3000w in steps, I added a thermostat which you place in any rooms that are critical or central to your base, you plumb them in and set a minimum temp, when the rooms temp falls below the minimum it will turn on any immersion heaters on that plumbing network until the target temp is reached.

This new setup makes it much easier to check whats going on at a glance, and is obviously extremely efficient because its just short spikes of power to reheat all of the radiators on demand, then they continue to produce heat on their own, and if you want you can get nerdy about exactly how much power you need and where to place thermostats and so on, or just skip the thermostat max out the heater and run it 24/7. The duel fuel stove doesn't have a power setting its just a flat value and will have enough capacity for something like a large cabin in the woods. I haven't worked out exactly how I'm going to do the solar heaters + storage tank yet but it will probably be simple.

The central cooling will be the same capacity based system, it will have its own pipes and thermostat, but because it cant store cold air you will either have to run it constant, or set a max and min temp on the thermostat, so it could cool a room down to 15c and then switch off, and then only switch back on when the temp is above 25c.

I am aware that redist heat has been updated and there is also another mod out for climate control, i haven't actually tried either of them so i don't know how similar they are to what i have talked about, but since the central heating part of this mod is optional, and not required for heating the water supply, you can choose which one you want to use. I planned on splitting the central heating part of this mod and making it standalone for A18 so you don't have to have to have hygiene. Some people want water heating as a requirement for hot baths and showers, i may be able to make it so if hygiene detects my central heating is installed then it then requires a heat source to have hot showers else it just ignores it.

I love the sound of everything there. One thing I'd like to discuss, however: Would it be possible to have small (1x1) electric boilers similar to immersion heaters that run on the same thermostat system but can only provide the same heating as a dual-fuel stove? Also, could we have two different pipes for heated water and fresh water? I like to split my colony up into separate houses for people, realistically, instead of having a large shared base. I'd rather not have homes heating each other's radiators for realism purposes. I feel that an immersion heater is just overkill for small 3-bedroom bungalows.

With regards to RedistHeat, I'm using it for heating large buildings and cooling in general (plus the vents are great). They use arbitrary small, medium and industrial heaters/coolers. The small ones can be placed inside walls, the medium ones are the vanilla buildings, the industrial ones are four times the size of vanilla and also replace walls just like medium/vanilla ones. Though, RedistHeat does also have it's own pipes and a building to pump heated/cooled air through them.

Your system for air conditioning sounds similar but may be better (and less buggy) than RedistHeat. I'd miss the vents though, they're much better than the vanilla ones as they don't cause a weak point in the wall. The active vents are great too, they can open to allow the right temperature air to flow from outside to inside. Great for saving power during winter, as the cold air outside can just be let in but when it gets warmer, the vent will shut and the cooler will turn on.

I don't know much about Centralized Climate Control (I think that's what it's called?) other than that it specialises in having the temperature control in a centralised location and piping the heated/cooled air to everywhere else it's needed. It has air intakes, outflow vents and temperature controllers that act as both heaters and coolers for the piped air.

the immersion heater now has power settings, 250-3000w so there is no need for another version thats the same size, and i dont want to make hot and cold water pipes that is just way too fiddly for rimworld, would have to have so many pipes overlapping everywhere on every fixture it would just be a mess, everything in hygiene is going to stay on 1 pipe, once central heating is split off it will have 2 more for heating and cooling so 3 total and thats enough

Ah, okay. Sorry, haven't used the immersion heater yet so I wasn't sure on the size and I must have missed that part about the power settings. So when central heating is a separate mod it'll have a pipe for hot water and a pipe for air conditioning, plus hygiene will have the general pipe for water intake and sewage outflow, gotcha. That works for me, assuming things like the immersion heater require two pipes to connect, one for water intake and one for the heated water.

I don't think it'd be too fiddly for some of the buildings to need two pipes connected, input and output. The cold and hot water pipes I meant are equivalent to the mains pipe in hygiene and hot water pipe in central heating. Which mod do you plan to put the water intakes into? If it's hygiene then maybe the central heating buildings could work without water intake like they do now if hygiene isn't installed. Actually, you could probably have the intakes in both mods if you wanted to.

I feel like I'm getting too involved. Sorry xD

the heating mod wont need any water, you only need a drop to get a central heating system working so its not worth thinking about. And in a normal house you have hot and cold feed side by side almost everywhere so just imagine they are bundled together. It would make more sense for sewage and water to be split not hot and cold water. And really you are goign to need to run all 3 pipes everywhere to all of the baths showers and basins so it would just end up in stacks of pipes and power conduits everywhere, and without an easy way to remove power conduits with a designation that can be a real pain in the ass. I can go on and on with reasons to make pipes just a single bundle

Hm, good points. I'll stop intervening with unnecessary suggestions and let you get on with your mod.

im going to see if i can run a poll on the forum to find out if people really want hydration need, i have an idea of a way i could do it that is super simple and based on the hygiene and bladder needs

never mind, i just made a hydration need instead. Here is the details that i posted on the forum...

So the hydration need that i may, maybe, might have just made works quite differently, it isn't going to be about collecting and storing water or constantly looking for a drink or carrying canteens or any of that trivial stuff, its just about extreme conditions and adding a bit more flavor to moods and hediffs but in a way that most of the time you wont even notice is there, like the space or comfort needs but deadlier if you really fowl up. It is working as a separate bonus mod which requires the base hygiene mod to function so if you don't want it you can skip it

Its based on the current bladder and hygiene needs, bladder falls at a rate based on the current food level, more food = faster bladder reduction, the hygiene need tries to reach a target level of hygiene based on current conditions which include cleanliness, temperature, and what kind of work they are doing. Imagine they are drinking small amounts of water with their meals, the thirst need will target the current food level and seek to match it, if food is 90% thirst will rise to match it, if food is 20% then thirst will fall down to 20% at a rate based on how hot it is and what kind of work they are doing. This means that in normal conditions in a mild or cold climate the water they get from meals should suffice, but if they are hot or there is a heatwave and they have thick clothes on or are doing hard manual work or are dying in a fire or some combination of all of these, then it could push the thirst down faster than food consumption can keep it up, in this scenario they will seek a source of water to drink which will top up only the thirst need, imagine it more like drowning your face in a bottle of water after digging holes for 8 hours in the sun, rather than going to the water cooler once every 15 minutes for a sippy cup and a natter. If the water source is clean then all is well, if its scooped out of a latrine or some pond out back where you dump your sewage then diseases and deaths should be expected, there's a dehydration hediff to go with it but that will probably only kick in if they are left starving and have absolutely no access to water. It doesn't include any water collection devices like rain collectors its just using the same inlets and plumbing as hygiene will, again its not really about getting the water its more about the extreme conditions leading to thirst and other problems, and the knock on effects that lead to old jeff with the bad back cracking under pressure and taking it out on fred with a club.

That sounds pretty good!

Would it be possible to create a water pollution effect for settlements downstream from settlements dumping untreated sewage into a shared river? Perhaps this could debuff the faction relation?