If you know what you are doing you can have many of those weapons fairly early on. The real issue is that there are a ton of choices at each level and it is not clear what weapons are tied to which tier. It's the same with the armour since you can get some pretty good stuff if you know what you are doing early on (I think I am able to get armour that is about on maybe tier 3 before repairing my FTL if I grind really well).

Originally posted by Bob of Mage:

If you know what you are doing you can have many of those weapons fairly early on. The real issue is that there are a ton of choices at each level and it is not clear what weapons are tied to which tier. It's the same with the armour since you can get some pretty good stuff if you know what you are doing early on (I think I am able to get armour that is about on maybe tier 3 before repairing my FTL if I grind really well).

The thing is, weapons that require morphite bars should already be considered tier 6 minimum. The effort that goes into making morphite bars in general far outweighs simply making vanilla gear and takes more time to aquire anyway. What about the other 'high end' bars as well, like pyrite and the like?

No matter how you slice it, these spears, hammers, and most 1h swords and axes take more effort and time to craft than vanilla gear of a much higher tier, so something is just wrong here. It isn't just restricted to melee either; much of the armor suffers from a similar proble, but isn't as bad due to the sheer variety. More than half the guns are useless by the time you can make them as well :\ Just feels way off.

Stats are not the sole deciding factor on weapons as alt fires effects etc make a huuuuge difference


But yea some need adjusting.but no,morph ire is not t6. Close though. But yea, list weapons that seem off and we can peek at it. Most are as per vanilla ring values though

I just want to say, that despite these balancing issues, I still love this mod and encourage any and all to play it rather than vanilla, but I still need to give feedback on things I feel need adjusting.



Fishbone Basher
8 damage 1.3 swing
blink explosion
12 carbon
2 advanced alloy
24 bone

The damage is extremely low for something that is outclassed by tier 1-2 hammers, yet you can't easily obtain advanced alloy or understand how to even get carbon for a while.

Helios (1h sword)
8 damage 1.6 swing
5 morphite bars
3 carbon

Morphite may not be the highest tier, but it has to be better than tier 3~ gear right? This one seems way off.

Hellfire Knife (1h sword)
8.8 damage 1.6 swing
6 obsidian shards
4 pyreite bars
3 hellfire plant seeds
2 ignus chili peppers
4 penumbrite shards

This one requires you go to a lot of places, many of which are fairly dangerous, and uses a higher tier bar such as pyreite, yet isn't much better than the already lackluster helios sword. Again, comparing to simply finding 1h swords randomly that are better earlier on, as opposed to the grinding aspect.

Lunari Dagger (1h sword)
12.8 damage 2.2 swing
4 lunari crystal
2 bone
2 copper bars

This one is one of the more perplexing ones... It isn't that it is bad, but it is FAR too good for how easily one can make it. It blows many weapons that are so much harder to craft out of the water. This is probably the biggest offender in the "too powerful" category.

Lunari Hammer
9.2 damage 1.1 swing
energy wave
5 lunari crystal
3 bones
5 copper bars

I get that the special is suppose to make up for lackluster stats, but these stats seem a tad low, even for the ease of crafting it. Yet these are the same material types (except more expensive) as the lunari dagger, which is extremely good.

Quantum Hammer
5.2 damage 1.7 swing
energy aura
8 morphite bars
2 tritanium bars
4 advanced alloy

I am not even sure what to say about this one. It is worse than the other hammers that are much easier to make. Again, I understand this is not the highest of tier, but this should still be better than tier 1 right?

Bane Spear
9.5 damage 2.2 swing
supercharge
7 refined ferozium
4 skeletal structure
12 liquid irradium

This one basically sums up all FU spears in a nutshell. I get what you are going for, and it is speed in exchange for a lot of damage, however, you can make a titanium spear that has the same stats (double~ damage and half speed) and an arguably worse special. The material costs are just making no sense. Random spears also blow this out of the water before you even start mining ferozium.


As for guns, the issue is a bit different in most cases. I feel the high tier weaponry is relatively fine, where as the tier 1-5~ is all complete garbage. I don't even want to start listing most of them, because the issue is simply the same. The material costs are somewhat fine, but the stats are simply too low. We find guns with FAR superior stats many tiers before we can contemplate making the FU guns (assuming we stay on track of course). This isn't to say that guns don't also have weapons that share similar problems to the melee weapons, but they aren't as numerous. I feel all that really needs to be done with most guns is to up the damage/speed slightly and adjust energy costs accordinly. As it is now, I could find some merchants on an equal tier planet and buy guns that blow the crafted ones out of the water that are around the same tier.



If we start bringing vanilla, crafted weapons into the fold, then things get even messier. To my knowledge, there doesn't seem to be any tier 6 quality pistol (if any at all) that compares to the aegisalt pistol. And if they do compare, then they are so much harder to craft that I start to question why I even bother with the tedious, back and forth component crafting. Melee weapons are even worse. Possibly one or two FU spears can even compare to a titanium one for instance.. and they, again, are much harder to craft.

There are so many more weapons that I feel share similar problems and I am just going to list the names without the stats/mats for now.

Assasins Blade (too weak for mat cost, and in general)

Bone War Cleaver (WAY too easy to make for how powerful it is.. even compared to high tier/end game FU 2h swords)

Captains Blade ( decently balanced for cost, if not just slightly too strong, which makes me wonder why so many othey blood/quietus gear is so weak)

Coral Cleaver (this is better than a phase blade that takes ages longer to craft with a lot more tedious component crafting)

Coral Shot Sword (contradicts the material cost of the cleaver due to being so much worse than low tier, vanilla weapons that are better and easier to craft/find)

Emperors Blade (this thing, while too slow for my personal tastes, is quite strong and relatively easy to make after your first visit to a madness planet. It blows so many other 2h FU swords out of the water while being one of the easiest to craft)

Generals Blade (What? Same materials as the emperors, just a bit less of each, yet is quite a bit weaker despite its slight speed increase.. both specials on the crappy side)

Gold Sea Scion (durasteel shortsword is a decent bit better, and far less tedious to craft: that isn't to say this sword is hard to make, but by the time you discover it, you will have found better or have the durasteel)

Hellfire Knife (this one has to be the most disappointing for me personally... it looks great. It is relatively tough to make, however, and can be slightly tedious to obtain... Durasteel shortsword is better by a decent margin)

Basically all snipers outclassed by tier6+ randomly found drops. I understand some like the railgun have the piercing or other gimicks, but so far it hasn't matched t6 snipers that have far higher damage and better speed. The problem I am seeing is that you think gimicks and specials make up for lack of burst. Tbh, this game is all about burst. There aren't too many times where having consistent damage matters over busting something down in one or two shots, and bosses can't be gunned down without them going through linear phases sadly.

The above can also be said for certain assault rifles and pistole, where speed and energy cost is suppose to make up for lower damage (sometimes great specials and piercing as well) that encourage good sustain rather than quick bursts. There are few moments in this game where burst is outclassed. I'd rather something die in a pinch, as quickly as possible to save my life. Perhaps my personal preference, but this isn't like terraria where you can consistently fight a boss without breaks in between or massive groups/waves of enemies to pierce/damage continuously.


I am actually fine with the high tier rocket launchers so far, and many of the special/cool weapons are just that, special and cool. They fit their purpose and I appreciate them.



I have not nearly listed or mentioned everything with balance issues, but I think my idea has gotten across for the most part. Vanilla items are better, easier to craft, and less tedious to obtain (especially with a colony). I think all that is needed are stat adjustments, not material adjustments. I like the tedious crafting nature of the mod, but simply want to be rewarded for it.

Fair points and I agree on Melee weapons for sure(barring a smattering that are fine). Ranged I mostly disagree with, save for energy cost(which is what is mucking up the damage calculation). The issue is that I am one dude and virtually unable to test them all solo. I used vanilla damage and speed for balancing from their rng weapons so the values are on par. So I am guessing speed is the factor with meter. It's a weird damage algorithm, and thus there are irregularities.

When I return from vacation(I'm typing this from a hot tub at a cottage) I'll investigate more. I plan to retire stuff anyhow.

But yea, if you feel you could spare time you could check the fu github and compare Melee weapons to rng and you'll see what I mean regarding values. Most *should* be okay but aren't stacking up that way.

Dmg and speed might be all we need. But we'll see.


Thanks for the list though, as that is a good starting point

I will add though: ranged metrics are off to start with. Even what you call worse are often better than vanilla weapons due to Alt, dot, aoe and so on. Ranged damage is a very poor value to use as a core point here

Case in point: hail strike is one example. Listed dmg is crappy seeming until you try it.

Thus you saying 1-5 are garbage is grossly inaccurate. In fact, I roll with a t3 weapon almost exclusively most of the time( including the rather op proto-bow)


But I digress. Just worth mentioning is all



All that aside, yea several are ridiculous to craft.

yeah i felt some of the weapons were a tad weak.. like the boom cannon (DOOM BFG?) for example. (i had to use starcheat to buff that. and man does it clear mountains XD )

the explosions dont deal anywhere as much damage to mobs as it does to terrain. the most damage it does is if you score a direct hit with the primary attacks shell. otherwise its an amazing tool for clearing mountains for settlement construction.

And what makes you think it's meant as a mob clearing weapon? It is a passable weapon. But it is vastly better at clearing terrain. The joy of so many varied weapons is defining weird niches for some

The plant weapons you grow are good for crowd control imo. Especially the high tier ones.

Originally posted by Bob:

You might find the weapon upgrade mod helpful. You can easily boost a weapons damage by 50% and with a bit of investment (each "level" has an decreasing chance of success using increasingly rarer ores) get them to +100%. Or higher if you want to start pouring end game resources into a series of 5% success rates.

this thread doubled all three of your posts 0.o weeeeird...agreed, just unlocked Densium weapons and they feel fine, but like Bob said, reward for effort is a just cause for you to work on Sayt!