It's a complete progression overhaul that changes the pace of the game. It is not optional because its impossible to make it a simple on/off switch.

I'll post here rather than start a new thread.

I love FU, absolutely great stuff, backed by a team that knows what an update is and what belongs in it, unlike some other design teams. *ahem* That being said, is the new research progression system maybe a teensy bit punitive?

It's a damned good thing that research gradually ticks up, because going to the not-inconsiderable amount of trouble of making and powering a second-tier research computer nets a ridiculous 1.3% of an item's pixel value (going by actual item value and output) in research points. And that's a step up from the basic. So build a better research computer, right? Yeah, about that... I'm estimating the uptick to be 1 point per 3 seconds, and that complete branch requires over 30,000 research points. That works out to somewhat over an entire realtime day of waiting around. I don't feel like getting sufficiently pedantic to count up the hours involved in gathering up all the prerequisite technologies. All of this will garner the ability to fabricate a computer which returns a grand total of 6% of an item's pixel value, or 60 research points per 1000 pixels. That would be 500,000 pixels just to reach the point where you are.

Oh yes, and the power requirement inexplicably scales with item value, so good luck with that as well.

Nerf research plz?

Originally posted by Hoochfox:

I'll post here rather than start a new thread.

I love FU, absolutely great stuff, backed by a team that knows what an update is and what belongs in it, unlike some other design teams. *ahem* That being said, is the new research progression system maybe a teensy bit punitive?

It's a damned good thing that research gradually ticks up, because going to the not-inconsiderable amount of trouble of making and powering a second-tier research computer nets a ridiculous 1.3% of an item's pixel value (going by actual item value and output) in research points. And that's a step up from the basic. So build a better research computer, right? Yeah, about that... I'm estimating the uptick to be 1 point per 3 seconds, and that complete branch requires over 30,000 research points. That works out to somewhat over an entire realtime day of waiting around. I don't feel like getting sufficiently pedantic to count up the hours involved in gathering up all the prerequisite technologies. All of this will garner the ability to fabricate a computer which returns a grand total of 6% of an item's pixel value, or 60 research points per 1000 pixels. That would be 500,000 pixels just to reach the point where you are.

Oh yes, and the power requirement inexplicably scales with item value, so good luck with that as well.

Nerf research plz?

Doesn't need a nerf. You're going about it the wrong way and expecting the system to meet you in that space, rather than wandering into the playspace it intends you to use.

1: -Stop- trying to rush through tiers. The system is designed to get you out and exploring and seeing the universe. You're hitting a wall because you are trying to rush. Do things with what you unlock, experiment. Do quests. Do missions. Check out different planets. By the time you return to your base you will have amassed research and can progress a bit.

2: Take risks and get rewarded. The higher the risk the planet is, the higher the passive gain grows. If your passive rate is too low, you aren't taking advantage of this.

3. Research computers work exactly as intended. You get a % of the items value back as research. The crappier and more worthless the item, the less you get from it. No value at all? No reward. The power requirement is there specifically to balance the fact that you can "buy" your way through it if you wanted. It's a lot greater than 1.3% though. By about 41%. The base conversion rate is 42%.

4. Stop trying to progress like it is normal Starbound. This is no longer the case. You cannot really "skip tiers" now, and even trying is going to force you into challenges to determine the path to research all the requirements to do so. This is by design.

5. There are suits that add a +1 flat research bonus in their set bonuses. Those can help over time too.

6. Going high in Madness nets a Research bonus too.

7. Microscopes are a fantastic way to get research, too. Don't forget about them.

8. Find ores you cant use yet? toss em in an extractor!

9. Quests/Tutorials reward a large chunk, especially in the early game. Ignoring them is most unwise.

10. There are many other ways.

11. Waiting around AFK effectively stops your passive gain. Expecting gains when AFK is not going to pan out!


I totally get your point of view, but hopefully the above gives you some insight into how it is all meant to work. Explore. Experiment. .Do things. Raise a colony, a farm, etc etc. Whatever engages you, try it. The new system encourages it, and you'll get to see a lot of things you likely wouldnt have tried otherwise!

Okay, true enough that I may be getting a bit progress-focussed. And I thought the passive gain felt awfully inconsistent, but it never occurred to me that this might be something other than a bug in the software or wetware.

As for point #3, the scan tooltip claims that the computer (personal computer) has a return of 1%, and what I actually got was 32 pixels for... I'm pretty sure it was a 2500px vanity headgear. Either way, definitely not 42%.

I think I'll try this again and try to take a more relaxed approach, but this time save myself some grief by disabling BYOS and playing as a filthy casual. Fenerox carnivorism and hunger debuff + survival = bad time (IMO).

I can't find where to unlock advanced alloys. I checked the geology branch and there's nothing there having to do with advanced alloys where I'd expect them to be like around the protocite, zerchesium, and penumbrite.

Originally posted by Papa Stalin:

I can't find where to unlock advanced alloys. I checked the geology branch and there's nothing there having to do with advanced alloys where I'd expect them to be like around the protocite, zerchesium, and penumbrite.

yes there is. im staring at it right now.

Advanced Alloy is directly north of the Titanium Ore node under Geology.

I just started playing with the BYOS option and I can't unlock the ability to make a new FTL drive without the crystal fuel but I can't go to the moon to get the fuel without installing a new FTL drive. Any help would be lovely in sorting this roundabout loop

Originally posted by LonelyCrow:

I just started playing with the BYOS option and I can't unlock the ability to make a new FTL drive without the crystal fuel but I can't go to the moon to get the fuel without installing a new FTL drive. Any help would be lovely in sorting this roundabout loop

There is no roundabout loop.

You are told directly what to do in the quest dialogs you likely skipped: Start by making the STL drive, located in the Engineering branch of the research tree, in the Spacefaring nodes, which you cant miss: they have a shuttle on them.

From there you will be guided towards the FTL drive, which requires the Warp Manifold. That is created by travelling to the moon and getting erchius fuel, which is possible with the STL drive you made first.

so maybe i'm missing something... i can't seem to get the research to go above about 1.5/ sec. while wearing the researcher's armor, on my base (threat 3), it goes to about 1.5/sec. madness is about 2500. then i go to an atropus sea (threat 6), same armor, increasing madness, but research drops back to 1/sec. edit: after about 15 mins or so it's up to 4-5/sec, but then as soon as i teleport out it's right back to 1!

Originally posted by xanthoneman42:

so maybe i'm missing something... i can't seem to get the research to go above about 1.5/ sec. while wearing the researcher's armor, on my base (threat 3), it goes to about 1.5/sec. madness is about 2500. then i go to an atropus sea (threat 6), same armor, increasing madness, but research drops back to 1/sec. edit: after about 15 mins or so it's up to 4-5/sec, but then as soon as i teleport out it's right back to 1!

that is not a bug, nor an issue. You do not get the bonus until 5 minutes has elapsed. This facilitates exploration rather than AFK cheese.

Originally posted by Sayter:

It's a complete progression overhaul that changes the pace of the game. It is not optional because its impossible to make it a simple on/off switch.

Sorry to read that. I just asked that on general thread.
Well... guess that's it for me.

Your work is REALLY something, but as any creator, you have the right to make your vision.
Unfortunately for me, it's feels like a clunky convoluted mess just to create a simple wodden floor.

Originally posted by Msalgado:

Originally posted by Sayter:

It's a complete progression overhaul that changes the pace of the game. It is not optional because its impossible to make it a simple on/off switch.

Sorry to read that. I just asked that on general thread.
Well... guess that's it for me.

Your work is REALLY something, but as any creator, you have the right to make your vision.
Unfortunately for me, it's feels like a clunky convoluted mess just to create a simple wodden floor.

its not a clunky convooluted mess though. You start with timber floors, and the next node of wooden crafting is literally one node into the tree, and can be obtained within minutes of playing.

You simply can't sit and AFK to progress, because that would be cheap and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ :)

To be fair, though, is it maybe a bit heavy-handed to prescribe an inobvious 'correct way to play', and perhaps a little more so to insult those who prioritize differently? It's totally valid to ignore feedback and set the constraints as you see fit, but come on. You already won that fight by default. If Steam needs to censor your description of someone's play style, then maybe you're being less than 100% mature about it. "Less than 100%" isn't totally in keeping with the whole Frackin' Universe aesthetic, which is what makes it so cool in the first place. I know you're better than that.

If I might make a tiny huge suggestion about the research balance? I wonder if there's a way to justify the exploration-for-research mechanic. Maybe something like awarding research for scans (or at least adding a reference to passive scanning as a hook), values depending upon type, rarity, danger, and scanner upgrades? Scan 'items' which can be rendered into research via computer? Or maybe that's already a thing and I haven't even noticed... Whichever the case, would it maybe be helpful to be a bit more explicit about the research uptick, rather than using it as a "ha, gotcha for not playing right!" mechanic?

Originally posted by Hoochfox:

"Less than 100%" isn't totally in keeping with the whole Frackin' Universe aesthetic, which is what makes it so cool in the first place. I know you're better than that.

You choose to use a mod, you don't demand a mod conform to your playstyle. That certainly isnt going to stop me from making sure someone cant just start the game, sit in their base for 8 hours while they sleep, and then purchase all the research with no effort. FU has never been about that, and never will be.

I wonder if there's a way to justify the exploration-for-research mechanic.

Players get increased research for exploring more dangerous places. This incentivizes exploring other biomes and the universe at large.

Players get research from Fossils. This furthers incentive to explore underground.

values depending upon type, rarity, danger

Players get research from every item in the entire game with a value, via research computers. This ties directly to that idea already.

maybe be helpful to be a bit more explicit about the research uptick, rather than using it as a "ha, gotcha for not playing right!" mechanic?

it has nothing to do with "playing right". Sitting AFK is not playing -at all-. It's sitting AFK and expecting a reward for doing absolutely nothing. That isn't how I reward players. Actively playing , you'll almost never have to sit around and wait for research.

I will, however, add more info to the core codex on research. The trick is in people actually using their heads and reading it. There's info in there now, but the increase-per-tier isnt noted in there yet.