Dota 2
Roshpit Champions RPG 4.1
Harleking Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:08am
Serengard improvement ideas
In my opinion Serengard has the potential to become a great map, but right now it has too many flaws compared to other maps.
It has no outstanding reward like a high amount of Mitrhil Shards or Immortal Weapons/Glyphs etc. Even the map specific legendaries are all underwhelming.


To specify the issues and offer some solutions.


1. Mithril Shards rewarded are still too low. I know it got buffed some patches ago, but compared to Redfall Ridge you get way less shards. Also Redfall Ridge is easier, way faster and has less RNG compared to Serengard. So i would propose a buff to Mithril Shards, like 50-100% more.


2. The first 30 waves before endless are boring, unrewarding and time consuming. But you need to do them if you want to get the key to directly start with the endless waves. Other maps like Redfall or Tanari award the Upgradestone while playing on the increased difficulty. On Serengard on the other hand you are forced to do the first 30 waves.
So my proposal would be to also reward the Upgradestone after a fixed intervall of waves. For example every 30/50 waves awards an Upgradestone to all players.


3. Add the blacksmith to the area.
Also add the possibility to manually start the next waves. Righ now every 5 waves you are forced to wait 60-90seconds until the next one.
My solution would be to make an activation circle like on many other maps (Standing inside for 3seconds starts the next wave). So you can choose if you want to pause or directly continue the waves.


4. Map specific legendary drops are very underwhelming. Just to name a few:

Phoenix Emblem is a worse Ankh of the ancients or Flower cache.
The trinket which buffs str,agi,int and all attributes is pretty much worthless. (Sunstone or something like that)
Radiant Ruins Leather is also underwhelming.
And this applies to the rest of the items aswell.

So my proposal would be to buff or rework all of them.
Like giving some of them a 3 or 4 tier rune. There are only 5 items that can roll Q3: http://roshpit.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Items,_which_roll_3rd_and_4th_tier_runes.

Or buffing/reworking their current effect. For example:
Swamp Doctor's Tribal Mask: Heals you and nearby allies for 40% of the sum of your attributes every 0.5 seconds.

Additionally to the current effect:
1. While at full health Damage is increased by XXX
2. WHile at full health gains a shield that reduces the next damage taken by XXX sum of your attributes. 5 second duration. 10sec cooldown.

These are just some quick examples. There are many different ways to make the existing items more interesting.


5. In my opinion you should address the permastun issue. On many other maps it's not really a problem, but on Serengard you can get permastunned until you are death.
This is kinda frustrating. So maybe add a short immunity after an amount of time stunned. For instance after being stunned for 10seconds, 3s stun immunity.


Last edited by Harleking; Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:58am
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:28am 
Agreed with 1, 4 and 5. (Phonix emblem is actually the oldest respawn-feature item, Ankh and Cache are better versions of it). (Twilight Vestments are still viable (1v1 fights mostly), but replacing evasion roll with runes would make them just beatiful) (Sunstone is a biggest failure as trinket with no rune rolls)
#2 Stone farming is not a big issue if map will become viable. Which probably will happen one day.
#3 is not quite nesessary. Adding blacksmith fixes that issue.
Also
6. Stupid silence added for FIXING THE BODY ARCANA ISSUE do not let you to defend the base even if you are respawned, and you are super vulnerable to any kind of damage.
7. Timbersaws on last normal waves deal about 1m damage with their saws. Imoossible to dodge or avoid wo BKB effect. I believe they are pure.
8. Add the voting feature to skip the pause between waves.
9. DEMON MASK :< rolls 16 t3 runes. Please remove the scale of Phoenix' Nest waves and make it scale from magebane property?? Please?
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:37am 
10.(!) Exp gain was overnerfed.
At the meantime paragons on normal(!!!) difficulty can give 2m+ exp.
I know that the whole map is made is non-stop exp gain, but still too low.
Big Ounce Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:42am 
Serengaard can be the classic X-Hero Siege map; the main feature it definitely needs is the SKIP button after every wave. Other than that, some specific units need to be tweaked just for the map (e.g. the nature's prophets endlessly bloodlusting each other and not moving at all). Better rewards are welcome too. These and all the other things stated in the previous comments :D
Last edited by Big Ounce; Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:44am
Harleking Sep 21, 2017 @ 5:57am 
You are definitely right about #3. Seems like the better solution.

Regarding #2. Well, i still like the system of Tanari/Redfall more tbh. You can get new Keys on upgraded maps. I mean getting a key every 30/50 waves would be nice, because you dont need to waste 30min before the endless waves.
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:05am 
Originally posted by omae wa mou shindeiru:
Serengaard can be the classic X-Hero Siege map; the main feature it definitely needs is the SKIP button after every wave. Other than that, some specific units need to be tweaked just for the map (e.g. the nature's prophets endlessly bloodlusting each other and not moving at all). Better rewards are welcome too. These and all the other things stated in the previous comments :D
It thought that was fixed several patches ago, as well as arena's DS and skywraths.
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:07am 
Also:
11.
Asriel
I would play it if it allowed me to save if we lose
Last edited by redledcat; Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:07am
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:16am 
Ok now just straight copypast from discord to duplicate that,
12.Physical leaderboard somewhere to check it (and actually fixing that stuff with blank leaderboads and non-saved progress).
13.Move spawn point closer to the center. Mobs sometimes are thrown away from somewhere in the outer space. (Also: add 4 seconds cliff walking to the mobs after they spawn to prevent it)
14.More HP for mobs on normal, waves up to 30, or even further beyond.
Tony
15.Every 25 rounds serengaardBoss with roundsCount/100 chance to drop random immortal weapon (including new),
serengaardBoss dmg/hp/armour multipler same as mobs multipler, but have special passive that increases post mitigation dmg dealt/reduces post mitigation dmg taken for roundsCount/100, so power of this boss would scale faster than mob progression.
serengaardBoss also has steadfast ability and 3 other ability from special pool (chosed randomly)
16. Exp multipler for each round x5-15 (at least), its important, i get only ~1mill exp from paragon mob on 250 wave (~7 hr playing time) but while playing pit i can get way more.
17. Serengaard twig rework:
all atri
random rune (t1=t2=x t3=x/3 t4=x/6) value = roundsCount/2
special ability: reduce pre mitigation damage by 10 times, damage output 500%
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:24am 
Old thread.
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/469311655/1291817208499514741/
Most things are fixed, but still:
18. Leaderboard does not work with 80% chance.
19.Shackles of shadow shamans do not work with t7 Cherno glyph correclty.
20.Serengaard_night_invaders lowers your cooldown even if they miss autoattack.
21.Snowball Throwers - Tuskar model and Shredders - Timbersaw probably have too high damage for regular waves (22 and 23)
22.Well-randomised creep pack can destroy ancient from 100% to 0% less than 10 seconds.
Probably making additional passive over steadfast for buildings, which will limit max received damage per second, so 2% per second will allow our Ancient receive damage for 30 seconds in total.
In view of the fact that Ancient cannot be regenerated and good match in Serengaard can last for hours, it will be better system than we have now.
23. +320 attack range for each enemy creep near base IS SO DUMB.
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:33am 
Originally posted by Harleking:
Like giving some of them a 3 or 4 tier rune. There are only 5 items that can roll Q3: http://roshpit.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Items,_which_roll_3rd_and_4th_tier_runes.
And I did not updated that page for a while, need to add new items from Sea Fortress.
Harleking Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:36am 
Didn't know there was an old Serengard thread. Well hopefully Chalky will do some changes regarding Serengard.
redledcat Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:40am 
Oh there was at least another one, but cant find it now. Mine is always in my history of posts, so I can adress to it.
Big Ounce Sep 21, 2017 @ 6:45am 
Originally posted by ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ:
Originally posted by omae wa mou shindeiru:
Serengaard can be the classic X-Hero Siege map; the main feature it definitely needs is the SKIP button after every wave. Other than that, some specific units need to be tweaked just for the map (e.g. the nature's prophets endlessly bloodlusting each other and not moving at all). Better rewards are welcome too. These and all the other things stated in the previous comments :D
It thought that was fixed several patches ago, as well as arena's DS and skywraths.

Oh sorry, that was what I remembered when I last played the map, so that's good then. If there's a skip button though, and a good incentive to play the endless waves, serengaard will definitely be popular
ChalkyBrush  [developer] Sep 30, 2017 @ 7:23am 
bumping
redledcat Sep 30, 2017 @ 12:05pm 
Serengaard thread bumped? That's something new tbh
redledcat Oct 3, 2017 @ 7:46am 
Just some numbers to clarify the sitution with EXP on that map.
Exp limit is set on 100000, and +5000 it gives each wave in Infinity mode.
On wave I-40 PARAGON unit kill gives us 300k exp points.
On wave I-100(!!!) paragon unit kill gives us 600k exp points.
If we take on average there are 5 paragons on each wave, so it will be about 350 paragons (whaow, probably less) from wave 1 to wave I-40. Exp gain from all these units are ~51m exp points.
At the same exact time, clearing normal diificulty redfall equinox gave for me 36'745'925 exp points (Full clear, buffs from quests, 2 passes (+20%))
Legend redfall equinox with same conditions gave 284m exp.
Counted it with leveling immoral weapon and multiplying result by 425, becasue immortal weapons receive 425 times less exp.
I've did full clear normal mostly solo, so it took ~hour.
Legend run took 20 minutes, with splitted clearing, thatkfully exp share is global.
Getting to the wave I-40 tooks about 70-80(?) minutes on average, if you dont have op team.
So, well, these 350 paragons are pure theory, I need to test it better, but right now calculations says one run in redfall legend is equal 5.6 runs in serengaard from wave 1 to wave I-40.
20 minutes vs 400 minutes, with higher difficulty and much effort in serengaard because of growing resistance and damage of mobs. And dying makes you lose a lot of exp.
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