RimWorld

RimWorld

MultiFloors
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
telardo  [developer] Jan 4 @ 5:00pm
Ideas and feature requests
I believe this mod is heading in the right direction. Honestly, I didn't expect it to work as well as it does when I started this project. Now that my to-do list is almost cleared, it's time to brainstorm for what's next.

Planned features:
  • None

Will not be implemented:
  • Cross-level combat

Something like cross-level combat is undoubtedly cool, but implementing random, ambitious, cool ideas will never help this mod. Instead, it would push it to an inevitable failure. We have to live with some hard limitations that this game is not designed for. It's disappointing to have to let go of ideas that don't fit, but it's better to focus on what's achievable in a compatible manner, with reasonable performance overhead.
Last edited by telardo; Feb 26 @ 11:41am
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Showing 1-15 of 141 comments
No idea if this would work or not, but some ideas for the bills problem.
Before doing a bill, it will scan all the connected maps for the items needed
If it finds those items the colonist will pick them up, then go back to the floor and do the bill

Another idea would be connected storage, If you were to say have a trade beacon at your storage and someone requests for some steel, it could send it up.
I have no idea how that would effect performance
I've been avoiding digging down so far because I've been wondering if a more varied underground is planned, maybe placing some sort of caves biome down there or anything?
I already asked it but I put it here at the moment there is a dedicated section, may be you will take in to consideration in future.

I love a lot CQF (custom quest framework), it make possible do a lot of things like create new maps alternative for factions, quests, outposts and caravan sites.

This mod make your colony map awesome, but exploration is a little strange (in my opinion) because you only have multifloor stuff on your map and neither on others.

An integration with CQF (like a tag on custom map to link different maps on same coordinates of a specific ladder) could help a lot in this, and I would be very happy to help to designate maps for this purpose.

So the idea is that if two maps are tagged on that way, one is generated upper or lower (depending of the kind of tag) the other one, using the two ladders as 0.0 co-ordinate ( the two maps should have the ladder on same coordinate).

I know it is probably something more on part of CQF than Multifloors mod, but I leve this here in the case you wanna talk about it with the CQF author.

We can create amazing world map site and improve exploration a lot togheter.
I would really love special underground biomes! Maybe even underwater would finally become possible. And natural means for traversing levels: cave entries, chasms and - as a developements of the latter - finally, water surface :)
As a separate matter, some general water features. Underground water bodies, maybe some interaction with surface ones. Maybe you could use Dynamic Flooding mod mechanics.
Last edited by tanyfilina; Jan 5 @ 2:00am
I would love underwater stuff too!

If you wanna take it in consideration I would suggest to talk with the author of this mod.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3188258848&searchtext=Tele

For what I know he developed various useful tool about underwater (never used though), he worked with underwater for a lot of time and may be can help you to achieve it. He is part of the "biome team".

Also same for underground caves the "biome: cave" mod with different caves biomes according with depth could be very cool.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2969748433
Last edited by Giorgio Dibitonto; Jan 5 @ 2:12am
Irazell Jan 5 @ 10:06am 
is there a way to set living floors for animals aswell?
I was thinking that you can't read chinese by now. The localization of your mod page is quite good. Anyway I just want to share you an idea. Maybe you can set recipes for stairs which can maintain or modify the transportation of stuffs to layers connected to stairs.
For example, we set an 500 limited task for gold in stairs, then pops can transport those gold to the layer. Maybe a scan of numbers of stuffs is needed to work better. then we can do a lot of things in added layers. I found the stock function works well in different layers along, so if you can fix the transportation problem, that will be fascinating.:steamhappy:
telardo  [developer] Jan 6 @ 9:09pm 
Originally posted by A talking dolphin?:
I've been avoiding digging down so far because I've been wondering if a more varied underground is planned, maybe placing some sort of caves biome down there or anything?

I've added some basic vanilla-like caves to the underground.
telardo  [developer] Jan 6 @ 9:14pm 
Originally posted by A V.O.I.D Representative:
No idea if this would work or not, but some ideas for the bills problem.
Before doing a bill, it will scan all the connected maps for the items needed
If it finds those items the colonist will pick them up, then go back to the floor and do the bill

Another idea would be connected storage, If you were to say have a trade beacon at your storage and someone requests for some steel, it could send it up.
I have no idea how that would effect performance

It's all about performance. Hauling and ingredient scanning is quite heavy in vanilla. Anyway, I've added an experimental scanner for bill givers. Hopefully, it won't add too much burden when used properly.
"Connected storage" might be added later with elevators.
telardo  [developer] Jan 6 @ 9:23pm 
Originally posted by GRUFOLA:
I already asked it but I put it here at the moment there is a dedicated section, may be you will take in to consideration in future.

I love a lot CQF (custom quest framework), it make possible do a lot of things like create new maps alternative for factions, quests, outposts and caravan sites.

This mod make your colony map awesome, but exploration is a little strange (in my opinion) because you only have multifloor stuff on your map and neither on others.

An integration with CQF (like a tag on custom map to link different maps on same coordinates of a specific ladder) could help a lot in this, and I would be very happy to help to designate maps for this purpose.

So the idea is that if two maps are tagged on that way, one is generated upper or lower (depending of the kind of tag) the other one, using the two ladders as 0.0 co-ordinate ( the two maps should have the ladder on same coordinate).

I know it is probably something more on part of CQF than Multifloors mod, but I leve this here in the case you wanna talk about it with the CQF author.

We can create amazing world map site and improve exploration a lot togheter.

My question is, why would you even need this mod to generate those maps?
You can just create and connect them however you like, letting the player enter and explore each map themselves.
There's not a single feature in this mod that’s specifically designed for other factions' bases.
telardo  [developer] Jan 6 @ 9:40pm 
Originally posted by Thy ubeer:
I was thinking that you can't read chinese by now. The localization of your mod page is quite good. Anyway I just want to share you an idea. Maybe you can set recipes for stairs which can maintain or modify the transportation of stuffs to layers connected to stairs.
For example, we set an 500 limited task for gold in stairs, then pops can transport those gold to the layer. Maybe a scan of numbers of stuffs is needed to work better. then we can do a lot of things in added layers. I found the stock function works well in different layers along, so if you can fix the transportation problem, that will be fascinating.:steamhappy:

我能看懂但不一定每条评论都回复,跟搬运有关的想法主要是实现起来性能开销太大,后面再想想。
telardo  [developer] Jan 6 @ 9:43pm 
Originally posted by tanyfilina:
I would really love special underground biomes! Maybe even underwater would finally become possible. And natural means for traversing levels: cave entries, chasms and - as a developements of the latter - finally, water surface :)
As a separate matter, some general water features. Underground water bodies, maybe some interaction with surface ones. Maybe you could use Dynamic Flooding mod mechanics.

Cool ideas, but the topic of map generation is pretty deep and goes a bit beyond my current knowledge. It could easily be a standalone mod on its own. Maybe I’ll revisit the idea once everything else is stable enough.
Originally posted by telardo:
Cool ideas, but the topic of map generation is pretty deep and goes a bit beyond my current knowledge. It could easily be a standalone mod on its own. Maybe I’ll revisit the idea once everything else is stable enough.

I agree actually, the pathfinding and resource (and also patients, babies and prisoners!) hauling are much more important matters. But once everything is ok there, special map generation would make this mod just perfect :)
Originally posted by telardo:
Originally posted by GRUFOLA:
I already asked it but I put it here at the moment there is a dedicated section, may be you will take in to consideration in future.

I love a lot CQF (custom quest framework), it make possible do a lot of things like create new maps alternative for factions, quests, outposts and caravan sites.

This mod make your colony map awesome, but exploration is a little strange (in my opinion) because you only have multifloor stuff on your map and neither on others.

An integration with CQF (like a tag on custom map to link different maps on same coordinates of a specific ladder) could help a lot in this, and I would be very happy to help to designate maps for this purpose.

So the idea is that if two maps are tagged on that way, one is generated upper or lower (depending of the kind of tag) the other one, using the two ladders as 0.0 co-ordinate ( the two maps should have the ladder on same coordinate).

I know it is probably something more on part of CQF than Multifloors mod, but I leve this here in the case you wanna talk about it with the CQF author.

We can create amazing world map site and improve exploration a lot togheter.

My question is, why would you even need this mod to generate those maps?
You can just create and connect them however you like, letting the player enter and explore each map themselves.
There's not a single feature in this mod that’s specifically designed for other factions' bases.



Thank you for the reply, I will try to explain better as I can. I apologize if the post is long.

1) CFQ don't have a true functional multilevel system.
- CFQ make possible create others maps that act like sub maps but with several limitations.
- These maps go only underground
- There is a totally lack of "multilevel ai" or compatibility also with vanilla.
-- Raiders won't follow you among different sub maps.
-- Vanilla or DLC events that take place on principal map don't take place or are adjusted to work on sub maps. Making an example, reverent won't hunt you on sub levels. If you are refuge in a sub maps while you are doing a questa enemies won't search for you on others levels.
-- All features you implemented like power or temperature transmission, joy or sleep in others levels don't take place on sub maps. Pawn wont change levels. CFQ totally lack of these features.
- You can't link maps that go up. I tried to think to a way to avoid this (simulating) creating "parent thing def" of burrow and stairs (CFQ tools) inverting them and making so maps that simulate upper levels are small and with impassable walls. But there are several difficulties and limitations, the results is not brilliant.
-- Is necessary make walls indestructible, to disallow pawn go through them in the void (obviously no lower levels rendering here).
-- Also some things would be totally immersion breaking , like removing roof on first level should destroy upper level floors, things that obviously not happen because the two map aren't really linked.
-- Can rain on map that simulate second floor and not on others map because weather is not syncronized (among the rest).

2) AU LIMITATION
Also if the author that implemented multifloor ai on AU that is the same coder of CQF (and I love she/he for both gifts) would implement the same features of AU, these won't be still functional as they are in your multifloor mod, a lot of things I mentioned above like weather, upper levels, incompatibility with vanilla events ai still sot work properly, and would require a lot of coding anyway.

3) Your mod features wouldn't be useful on enemy base?
I apologize but here I totally disagree.
- we aren't talking only of enemy base here, we are talking about all exploration site taken in to account: quests, caravan events, mining site, enemy outposts, ancient sites, starting scenarios and general rimworld incidents.
- Exploring a quest site, an ancient complex or ruined cities with your mod features mean explore presitent and multilevel structures (created with CFQ but following your mod structures) that arent simply maps or separated sub maps, but structures and buildings existent on different floors (like you did) linked togheter taking advantages of all your work.
-- This quest site would be a lot more immersive.
-- The enemies and other threats would follow you between levels.
-- Some quest or incidents make so player spend time in that map and build is base. Have a multilevel floors building without a compatibility would imply see your multifloor buildings on one floors without see the corrispondent rooms of the presistent one on same floor totally breaking immersion.
-- for example if you build two levels homes and on the other buildings (created with CFQ without a compatibility in map generation) there are two levels, these won't appear on same layers of yours. You will see your second level stuff and and on same level the presistent stuff that is on first floor without see what should be on second floors (that is instead a sub maps and not placed on second layers). The rendering won't corrispond and this would totally break immersion.
-- Players can change maps and establish a new colony, if they choose a map with a multifloors complex creates by CFQ than again, these maps would work as separate one and won't really be placed on different layers connected togheter, this would make impossible make them interact with multifloors building constructed with your mod when you establish your new colony there with all the above limitations.
-- Same consideration for starting scenarios, is possible create starting scenarios with CFQ but with all the limitation I mentioned.

3) How I think compatibility should take place.
- The mod that should generate this site won't be yours, will still be CFQ, but CFQ would do this placing the various map not as simple separated sub maps, but following your mod instruction and placing them in others layers.
- This mean that if a map with multifloors is generated, than all floors and relevant rooms and building are generated togheter at the begininning.
- CFQ would use specific tag on map creation that simply according with your mod will say in which level and I'm which stairs make them linked.
-- when we would link two maps we would need to specific the layers and the stairs, both stairs of map should be linked (as we actually do).
-- the generation would take place following the indicated floors instructions, and making so the two map are placed making the two linked stairs on same coordinate on both layers.
-- As it is now, is the modder that must plane carefully how make various maps and stairs avoiding them to overlap. This is something at what we must pay attention already.
-- So the CFQ would give choose where the map places and in which layers and co-ordinate, than your mod should take part at the generation process generating layers with the relevant map and establishing connection on the stairs positions.

4) Why do this?
Let me make another question to answer to this. Don't you think that instead that make two different systems (like the one used on AU and your multifloors mod) that aren't very compatible (and immersion breaking), involving more work form two coders, instead would make sense join the force for a compatibility, making so the efforts of one coder are synergic and bring benefits to the efforts of the other one?
- Better compatibility
- CFQ author shouldent coding again the system he/she did for AU, but would take benefit of yours that have already a lot of thing implemented.
- your mod would benefit from add-ons mod that with CFQ framework (as dependency) would add a lot multifloors site to explore and functional and reclamable.
- All maps created by modder with CFQ that would use CFQ and your "multifloors" mod as dependency would benefit of a lot of extra features and would make functional multifloors site, questa and scenarios.
- All these tools would be usable by all modders and not a limited features of UC for example.

Lastly I know that the editing would take place in CQF, but I think a collaboration from you both is needed to make this happen, because CFQ must know how many layers and in which co-ordinate custom maps must be placed on site generation.

Also I apologize for my English, and and I wanna be clear that this post isn't a critic to your work or the CFQ author work.
I love you both and is amazing that you give two wonderful gift to use without asking nothing to the community.
I just wanted explain on a detailed way why I think that a compatibility between the two mods could change RW and why I think wold.be awesome if you try to talk to CFQ author to see if this is possible.

Again thank you for all your work, independently from your decision I won't ask this again, I don't wanna be tedious, I just wanted put all the advantages on the plate.
Last edited by Giorgio Dibitonto; Jan 7 @ 3:28am
@GRUFOLA what is UC?
And have you talked with this CFQ mod author, what they think of collaboration?
I totally agree that any collaboration would be beneficial, as this is a huge and complicated project.
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