Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

SNES Reboot
arek75 Jun 17, 2015 @ 6:10pm
Just played through this again, my thoughts.
First up, an old issue that you may well not consider to be a bug - At the start of the game, you still have to go to The Cage and get kicked out to get the "Tickets" keyword. In the actual US SNES version (the final version, I have know idea how it is in the beta), the guy you gave the tea to would give you the "tickets" keyword, which you could then use to get the Grinder and Lone Star keywords from him. In any case, this kinda breaks story continuity, since it requires Jake to go to The Cage before he should know he needs to. Note that I did read in your changelog that you added a hint to one of the NPCs in the area about going to The Cage, but I never found it, tho I didn't look very hard. Until I see how this is done (I might start a new game just to check), I'll hold judgement on that solution (my first thought about it is that it's a kludge).

Now for the rest...Balance seems alright now through much of the game, except for one thing - the Ruger Warhawk pistol. For 300 nuyen, you get a 16-damage weapon with unlimited ammo (anyone who uses pistols without getting auto-reload is nuts). The only weapons in the whole game with higher damage are sniper rifles (one of the shotguns matches it, but they don't beat it and they have very limited ammo per reload). Not only that, but one normal rifle offers armor penetration - and its damage is enough lower than the highest rifle (not to mention the Ruger) to make it not worth the nuyen. Granted, you don't get to use double-tap with the Ruger (which is why I took up rifles later - crits just became too valuable, and the damage is just too low on non-revolver pistols), but that one gun will still tear up the game through Drake Tower, including the Arena. My suggestion? Increase the price on this baby (it should be one of the more expensive guns at the first shop) and/or move it to the Dark Blade shop.

Now for the 2 new areas since my last playthrough - Drake Tower and Drake Volcano (yes, I know the Volcano is still under heavy construction, but I was actually able to complete it).

Drake Tower
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Other than some layout problems with some of the floors, this seems fairly well-balanced. I like that you put in a "stealth" option for those who want it, and have a couple of suggestions:

First, make it so that when you click to pick up a disguise it asks you if you want to put it on (and leaves it on the ground if not) - this is for people new to this version who want to just blast their way through like they did in the SNES version, or who otherwise don't want to use the stealth option. Sure you could just say "well don't touch that", but how is someone new to the game supposed to know not to pick up those 2 items?

Second, if this isn't alredy implemented, make it so that if someone gets through a floor with stealth, it "clears" the floor (making it impossible to aggro the guards there, or removing them entirely) and grants Nuyen and Karma equivalent to what you would have gotten for actually killing those guards. This makes it so that people using stealth don't fall behind for the Drake fight and/or Aneki Tower.

Drake Volcano
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First things first - your "first draft" of this place is amazing. Kudos on the layout and the changes.

Balance: For the Karma I had (197 spent, which seems reasonable), this place, for the most part, seems almost too easy. I know you mentioned freeze bugs - I never ran into any, tho I might've just gotten lucky (I did run into a couple of those in other parts of the game tho, and had to reload using the debug menu each time). Most of this can and probably will be solved by putting a few more guards in and/or making more guards appear when the alarms are set off.

That said, there are a couple of specific issues with Sub4:
First, the big wide-open area with all the turrets in it needs to have the turrets not activate until you're in the room, and then have all 4 activate at once (they currently activate one at a time, and are waaaay to easy to blow up singly). The room might need to be made smaller and/or the turrets moved a bit closer to the entrance to accomodate this. The addition of a Troll Decker or 2 in there might also help things since Turrets, by themselves, aren't all that threatening to a well-geared character with decent cyberware (and with gear prices the way they are currently, most characters rolling through there will be).
Second, back in the back of the area (where you go to disable the turrets and/or kill the guys who would be tossing grenades at you while you approce Drake's actual lair), there are 2 Troll Deckers standing next to each other (one is obviously a Janitor, but who cares). When you aggro the first one, the second one (the janitor) will stand there and watch you kill him while doing absolutely nothing. Then, when you step a bit further into the room, the "janitor" will aggro you as well. This fight would be a lot more interesting if they both aggro'd you together. This could be done for other encounters in the Volcano as well.

Finally, a bug with the area - when you talk to the pilot she gives you 3 options: Drake, Volcano, and Docks (keyword-based, ofc). In the SNES version, she responded to Drake and Volcano - and those keywords would take you back and forth between the tower and the volcano. In this version, the Drake keyword is for story, and the Docks keyword is apparently supposed to stand in for the Drake keyword, and take you to the Docks instead of the Tower (which is fine). However, when you travel to the Docks this way, you permanently lose all hired shadowrunners, including Kitsune (they may be re-hirable, but I didn't try, I just rewound to before I finished the tower so that I could hire Frogtongue to take with me into the Volcano). Again, I know this area is new and marked as unplayable (it's not unplayable, trust me, just unfinished), but this bug is a bit troublesome to someone like me who always goes out of his way to get Kitsune to tag along.

Now, an overall suggestion that may help remove some of the old "transition" bugs you seem to have: Remove the ability to just "hire" runners - make it so that all runners, even Kitsune, are "on call" only (To keep the flavor of the SNES game, if you finish the Rat Shaman's with Kitsune in party, she can be called in for free, or better still always comes in when you enter a "hostile" area). I'll be honest: Jake doesn't need runners with him in "town" zones at any point in the game (I never ran into any real "problems" in town). Making it so that entering a "hostile" area gives you the option to bring in runners, and making it so that runners don't appear anywhere else, has the potential to solve quite a few long-standing bugs in the game.

--Arek75
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
ledeir  [developer] Jun 17, 2015 @ 8:06pm 
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

When I last played through on an emulator I had to go to the Cage to learn the keyword... I don't see any reason not to allow the bar patron to give it though...

If I remember right the warhawk is actually a tier 3 weapon so I'm surprised I made it available that early. If its really that powerful I have no objection to moving it to the Dark Blade shop.

I'll definitely adjust the disguises so its optional. It hadn't occurred to me that people might not want to use them.

The karma and clearing of floors with stealth is an excellent idea. I'll think on how to do that, but it shouldn't be too hard.

I'll take a look at the volcano. We actually had another scripter add the logic there (Dave does good work!) so I don't know how quick or easy those fixes are offhand.

And I'll think on the hiring suggestion. That is a potentially messy change so I want to make sure everything else is good first.
arek75 Jun 17, 2015 @ 11:51pm 
The last few times I've played, it's been on an emulator, and I don't remember even once having to go to The Cage to get the Tickets keyword, but I can certainly check again. I do think you have to "talk" to the guy after giving him the Iced Tea to get the Keyword, tho.

Edit: I just verified in 2 different english versions of the game (one may have been the beta, but I don't know for sure) that he does, in fact, give the keyword if you talk to him, then use the "talk" dialog command.

Also something I forgot to mention - the Drake fight was actually very challenging at my karma level. Too hard? Probably not - that was supposed to be the ultimate fight on the SNES version (lol@freeze). In fact it might be too easy, depending on how much the RNG has Drake blasting away at Jester. To eliminate that factor, remove Jester's invulnerability and give him some sort of ranged weapon (magic would be faithful to the SNES version, or the Gatling Gun would be appropriate if you wanted to keep the "technology in decay" feel). Ideally, Drake should focus Jester while he's up, and Jester should have enough HP to last a while, but not through the entire fight.

--Arek75
Last edited by arek75; Jun 18, 2015 @ 12:44am
Eklamatu Jun 19, 2015 @ 12:28am 
Originally posted by arek75:
Also something I forgot to mention - the Drake fight was actually very challenging at my karma level. Too hard? Probably not - that was supposed to be the ultimate fight on the SNES version (lol@freeze). In fact it might be too easy, depending on how much the RNG has Drake blasting away at Jester. To eliminate that factor, remove Jester's invulnerability and give him some sort of ranged weapon (magic would be faithful to the SNES version, or the Gatling Gun would be appropriate if you wanted to keep the "technology in decay" feel). Ideally, Drake should focus Jester while he's up, and Jester should have enough HP to last a while, but not through the entire fight.

Nah, this doesn't seem right – story-wise. Jester ist unkillable. The only way to get rid of him is to know his name and put him under your command.

Back in the SNES game he just did one barrage attack on Drake to make it easier for the player to achieve victory. After this attack he disappeared. He didn't do the full job like he is doing in the reboot.

So to keep the original feeling and don't hurt the story just let him do exactly what he does in the SNES game. Last 1 turn and do damage once which takes a fixed percentage of Drakes life.
Last edited by Eklamatu; Jun 19, 2015 @ 2:59am
Geeked  [developer] Jun 19, 2015 @ 9:11pm 
alternatively - maybe find some way that the Jester attracts no aggro or attacks?
Geeked  [developer] Jun 21, 2015 @ 7:56pm 
for Drake Tower stealth clear - maybe a security keycard that turns guards neutral once you get clearance for the floor above it? or if the floors are cleared on backtracking - the player says to self "their shift must have ended?"
franklinpayne Jun 27, 2015 @ 1:39pm 
Really? Removing Jester's immortality? Have you even tried the fight?

I was doing 2 damage per hit with my Assault Rifle (that's when I was hitting Drake at all). Drake does about 30 damage per round or something similarly ridiculous.

You do the math.
ledeir  [developer] Jun 27, 2015 @ 4:40pm 
Originally posted by franklinpayne:
Really? Removing Jester's immortality? Have you even tried the fight?

I was doing 2 damage per hit with my Assault Rifle (that's when I was hitting Drake at all). Drake does about 30 damage per round or something similarly ridiculous.

You do the math.

Drake hasdnt been balanced much yet. How much karma did you have going in? What was your average hit chance? What rifle did you have?

Thanks for commenting!
franklinpayne Jun 28, 2015 @ 7:39pm 
Originally posted by ledeir:
Drake hasdnt been balanced much yet. How much karma did you have going in? What was your average hit chance? What rifle did you have?

Thanks for commenting!

No worries. I beat Drake once, but I should really say: Jester beat him :)

I have 207 karma in my save just before the Drake fight. Hit chance isn't displayed for Drake. Don't know why. Usually I can see the hit chance when attacking. I had just the basic AK-97, which I realize is not the optimal choice, but I had no problems with it up to Drake.

Another thing: I just reloaded my save and tried the Drake fight again (several times), and Jester kept trying to run out of the room. For some reason he didn't even attempt to attack Drake.
arek75 Apr 30, 2017 @ 2:46pm 
Okay, doing another playthrough, and I've already run into a few things.

First, the elephant in the room - how the pre-caryards scenario plays out (in both the reboot and the original):
  • How it plays out in the reboot:
    1. Wake up in morgue, inspect drawer, get matchbook and note.
    2. Leave morgue, talk to and follow Decker to alleyway.
    3. Get gun/rebar, kill ganger, get armor, learn about Dog.
    4. Start roaming around.
      • Find Mr. Johnson, get Apartment Key.
      • Find Apartment, Get Sunglasses and Sassie's Number, Find out about Drake, Find out you can't make calls without a Credstick.
      • Find bar, give patron Iced Tea, he thanks you but doesn't say what's got him down.
      • Get kicked out of The Cage, find out you need Tickets to enter.
    5. Talk to Bar Patron again, find out about Grinder and Lone Star.
    6. Buy a Lone Star badge from the Businessman.
    7. Return to Morgue, get Credstick and Tickets.
    8. Find a phone, Call Sassy, find out about Glutman.
    9. Call Glutman or go to his Office, find out he's at The Cage.
    10. Go back to The Cage, talk to Glutman, get taken to Caryards.
  • And here's how it plays out on an actual SNES cart:
    1. Wake up in Morgue, inspect drawer, get matchbook and note.
    2. Leave morgue, talk to and follow Decker to alleway.
    3. Get gun, kill ganger, get armor, learn about Dog.
    4. Start roaming around.
      • Find Mr. Johnson, get Apartment Key.
      • Find Apartment, Get Sunglasses and Sassie's Number, Find out about Drake, Find out you can't make calls without a Credstick.
      • Find bar, give patron Iced Tea, find out about Tickets, Maria, Lone Star, and Grinder.
    5. Buy a Lone Star Badge from the Businessman.
    6. Return to Morgue, get Credstick and Tickets.
    7. Find a phone, Call Sassy, find out about Glutman.
    8. Call Glutman or go to his Office, find out he's at The Cage.
    9. Go to The Cage, talk to Glutman, get taken to Caryards.

Believe it or not, I'm not keen on either of those scenarios, story-wise, after having listed the events. The first one requires Jake to go well out of his way to get kicked out of The Cage before he has any reason to know he needs to get in there, and neither gives any indication of the reason you need to get at Grinder's personal belongings. Basically, it boils down to this: Jake needs a Credstick so that he can find out about The Cage to get kicked out and find out he needs Tickets, but he needs to know he needs the Tickets before he can get the stuff needed to get the Credstick.

With that in mind, I'd like to propose a change here: Take the Credstick out of Grinder's posessions and put it on the Ganger you kill in the alley, along with the armor (or somewhere else in the alley if you prefer). This would make it so that you can call Sassie as soon as you find her number, thus putting events in motion for you to (eventually) get sent to the Caryards. The downside to this would be that the alleyway events are no longer skippable (lotta completionists used to skip that to get the zip gun and then go back and get the baretta).

In other news: I've been running into the "Neutral Loop" a lot in the Tenth Street area. It always seems to happen when I get into combat there, and then when combat ends there's about a 50/50 chance of going into a Neutral Loop. Intentionally allowing Combat to go a round or 2 seems to help, but doesn't completely eliminate the problem.

Finally, I noticed that the weapon selection at Vivian's (the first time you visit, if it matters) hasn't changed since the last time I played. While I haven't re-run much past there, those 2 revolvers still seem awfully powerful for that shop, as do the top 2 shotguns.
ledeir  [developer] Apr 30, 2017 @ 6:38pm 
Originally posted by arek75:

#4 differences - I'll have to check the script. For your SNES playthrough, are you sure you didn't talk to the wandering girl before going to the bar? She also gives the "tickets" keyword. With respect to plot conversation we tried to stick close... So I am trying to figure out how they got out of sync.

I also agree it seems silly to force the player to get kicked out of the cage... I think looting the credstick early makes sense... The question is... will our followers riot at an obvious change like that? (I should probably just do it and see)

Regarding Vivian's shop... What I need to do is properly set the shop up to have level appropriate gear...

I hate the neutral turn. I really do. I am taking next week off from work to work on the mod so hopefully I can finally hunt it down and kill it. (literally, as the solution may simply be to kill all the spawners on combat end)
arek75 Apr 30, 2017 @ 10:55pm 
I don't know if I've ever talked to that girl on prior playthroughs, but I do know this: When you mentioned you thought you needed to go to The Cage to get the Tickets keyword I actually did a quick test on an emulator where I simply ran from the Morgue to the Grim Reaper, grabbed the Iced Tea, gave it to the Bar Patron, then talked to him to test. The reason you might not have known about this is that you don't get the keyword from another keyword. After he says "Cheers chummer, my favorite too", don't use "Ask about", use "Talk" - basically, by just listening to him for a moment, he'll break down and spill the beans about the tickets.

The problem with that whole scenario is this: Why are you risking the wrath of Lone Star to get the Tickets from the Morgue at that point? Just to be a nice guy and give the Bar Patron the Tickets he paid for? Or to use the Tickets to go see Maria Mercurial yourself? Remember: You have amnesia and a bunch of gangers are trying to kill you. Additionally, at that point, you might not even know about Sassie yet, so you don't even know you need a Credstick, much less the Tickets.

Moving the Credstick somewhere where it can be gotten without the Grinder and Lone Star keywords fixes that. Putting it on that ork ganger makes sense, as he kinda looks like one of the guys that tried to kill you in the Prologue (meaning that he may have looted it off of you to begin with), but there may be other places, possibly even better ones, to put it. Mr. Johnson probably has a Credstick, for example. :)

As for the weapon shops...Yeah, that needs to happen. :)

One last thing: I ran into a bug at the end of the Stilettos run: The first time I cleared it this run I saved the Gang Leader for last. He had 30 HP, and when I hit him for 28 damage he "fell", but didn't count as being "killed", so I couldn't talk to him or get the password. After resetting, I made sure and killed him before the rest of his goons were dead, and it went fine. Not sure whether it was saving him for last or not doing enough damage to "kill" him that triggered the bug, tho.
Last edited by arek75; Apr 30, 2017 @ 11:13pm
arek75 May 1, 2017 @ 10:48pm 
Got through Drake Tower/Volcano today. Looking at the weapon stores up to that point...what a mess - With the (rather arguable) exception of the Heckler & Koch Assault Rifle, there's absolutely nothing in the Dark Blade shop worth buying (except grenades and maybe the melee weapons), tho I didn't get to check the place after finishing Drake Volcano (I need to re-run it, see below).

First up, Drake Tower: There's still no warning on the disguises. I may try a stealth run at some point, but I wasn't interested in one today. The same issue exists to a lesser extent in the Volcano, but the disguise location is obvious (and easy enough to avoid), and the keycards seem to add some flavor.

Now, a couple of bugs:
First, I ran into the "New Actor" bug (where Kitsune turns into "New Actor"). This is likely due to me attempting to give her my Fireball spell (my build doesn't have enough magic power to equip it), as it happened after reviewing my stash to see if the darned thing had popped back in there after disappearing off of Kitsune. In any case, that simply means that my Stash is inaccessible now (nbd, really, tho I'll miss the Armor spell if I don't get my mag up enough to equip it before getting it). Note that rolling back to before I attempted to give her the spell is not really an option, since I did that almost as soon as I got the spell, and would have to redo everything from Bremerton onwards, at least.

Second (and more important, really, at least to me), After finishing the Volcano and talking to Pushkin, I was given the options of either going immediately to Aneki Tower or returning to the Docks. I decided to return to the Docks, since I needed to grab the Armor spell anyway. Unfortunately, at that point, Kitsune was removed from my party for some reason. Now, to see if I can salvage that situation, I need to do another Volcano run (as I didn't manually save during the Volcano at all).

Finally, the Drake fight: Drake was not targetable with *any* magic spell, including Powerbolt, when I fought him. This means that poor Kitsune had nothing to do when her Heal and/or Manaball spells were on cooldown. I get that this may have been done to prevent cheesing the fight with Blindness and/or Petrify, but it also rendered Jester helpless (he just stood there while I blasted away at Drake with my Shotgun and Rifle). Note that Drake can still be hit by AoE magics that don't directly target him, so Manaball works...as do Drake's own fireballs, so go stand next to him while you're blasting him...he'll kill himself trying to kill you. :)

There are still, ofc, the aggro issues in there, particularly where you aggro the turrets one at a time in the first turret room on the Sub 4 (others as well, but that one's pretty glaring still).

Can't wait to see what you did with Aneki Tower. :)

--arek75
Last edited by arek75; May 1, 2017 @ 11:02pm
ledeir  [developer] May 2, 2017 @ 9:45am 
Originally posted by arek75:
1. Got through Drake Tower/Volcano today. Looking at the weapon stores up to that point...

2. First up, Drake Tower: There's still no warning on the disguises...

3. Now, a couple of bugs:
First, I ran into the "New Actor" bug (where Kitsune turns into "New Actor"). This is likely due to me attempting to give her my Fireball spell (my build doesn't have enough magic power to equip it), as it happened after reviewing my stash to see if the darned thing had popped back in there after disappearing off of Kitsune.

4. Second (and more important, really, at least to me), After finishing the Volcano and talking to Pushkin, I was given the options of either going immediately to Aneki Tower or returning to the Docks. I decided to return to the Docks, since I needed to grab the Armor spell anyway. Unfortunately, at that point, Kitsune was removed from my party for some reason. Now, to see if I can salvage that situation, I need to do another Volcano run (as I didn't manually save during the Volcano at all).

5. Finally, the Drake fight: Drake was not targetable with *any* magic spell, including Powerbolt, when I fought him.

(Edited your text to make it easier to reply)
1. I need to revisit weapons and gear. That will happen when I do a balancing run (which requires me fixing a bunch of stuff first).

2. Thanks for the reminder. Completely forgot I planned to add warning on disguises.

3A. New Actor Bug - That should finally be squashed when I push out an update later this week. I have been completely reworking the hired runner mechanics and logic. That being said, who knows what knew bugs will be created by this as it will need to be thoroughly tested once its pushed out.

3B. That's one design decision I need to work on. People want to give the hired runners gear but I need to make it persist somehow. The hired runner mechanics don't support it currently and any gear given will be lost on scene change.

3C. If you managed to break the game state somehow, and need manual intervention to restore it, let me know.

4. Kitsune being removed from the party should be fixed in the next patch as well. I believe she should also return when you switch maps to Downtown. If she doesn't, I can investigate more...

5. This one surprises me. You can shoot Drake, you should be able to spellcast at him too... My guess is a box is checked somewhere which shouldn't be.

As usual, thanks for the comments.
Geeked  [developer] May 2, 2017 @ 10:17am 
3B i dont think even HBS figured out persistant gear given to runners by player ; It would have to be mission by mission - so - maybe the trick is to make sure player gets the gear back at mission end - or it goes to stash?
ledeir  [developer] May 2, 2017 @ 10:39am 
Originally posted by Geeked:
3B i dont think even HBS figured out persistant gear given to runners by player ; It would have to be mission by mission - so - maybe the trick is to make sure player gets the gear back at mission end - or it goes to stash?

The problem is they reset every scene load... Ideally I would like to disable the ability to give them gear outside of scripted conversation windows...
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