Slay the Spire

Slay the Spire

Relica
Walux  [developer] Jan 10, 2024 @ 3:16pm
Infusion Mechanic Discussion
Discuss here how the infusion mechanic can be further improved.
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
Walux  [developer] Jan 10, 2024 @ 3:18pm 
Experiment with two new relics, only granted through Infusion.
These relics require copies of Bite and Apparition.
Last edited by Walux; Jan 10, 2024 @ 3:18pm
Sagil Jan 10, 2024 @ 8:43pm 
Being able to swap out the new starter relic at Neow is nice, though my feeling is that it isn't all that useful, certainly not early on. I like the idea, but In two runs with it I've never added a single "relicard" to my deck. Could maybe strengthen it to upgrade a newly added card if you already have a copy of it. Or instead it could ensure that card rewards contain a copy of a (non-starter) card you already have (if possible).
Last edited by Sagil; Jan 10, 2024 @ 8:49pm
Sagil Jan 10, 2024 @ 8:50pm 
Creating curses when infusing common cards mainly has the effect that you don't add common cards to your deck anymore, unless either the card or the relic is exceptionally good (e.g. hourglass - not sure why the card is common when the relic is uncommon). So a change to mechanics where infusion curses aren't tied to rarity might be preferable.
Walux  [developer] Jan 11, 2024 @ 5:36am 
I agree with the idea that a starter relic should provide an immediate bonus. Thank you Sagil. Look forward to changes that make it easier to satisfy the requirement of Relicards and infusions.
Last edited by Walux; Jan 11, 2024 @ 5:37am
Walux  [developer] Jan 11, 2024 @ 10:41am 
First addition to help aquiring Relicards, inspired by Calling Bell :

Added a new curse : Mark Of The Bloom and a new boss relic : Blooming Seed.
This boss relic makes 3 random cards in your deck become Relicards (by providing their corresponding relics) in exchange for a powerful curse.

For the future, expect a new keyword that some random card drafts can get, allowing them to require one less copy for infusion or not deleted from deck after infusion !
Last edited by Walux; Jan 11, 2024 @ 10:41am
Walux  [developer] Jan 11, 2024 @ 5:32pm 
Experiment with the new Eternal keyword ! Copies having this keyword are not removed after infusion !
Sage the Drifter Jan 12, 2024 @ 1:02am 
I noticed that i felt very little urge to gather cards for transfusing. Botttled storm (as an example) didnt really work in my deck, but would be nice as a relic. I could get 2 copies at once, but didnt because waiting for the 3th card meant 2 bloating cards in the meantime. I feel like saving up cards to turn them into a relic (with sometimes getting cursus aswell) and then using up a bonfire for it is very expensive for just 1 relic.

In short. i believe that transfusing is just to costly atm.
I tohught about a possible rebalance that might be more cost friendly: you can turn 1 upgraded card into a relic. If its not upgraded + 1 curse, if its comon +1 curse, if its both +2 curse.
I realise that this does drift away from the original concept to some degree, but it's just a thought :)
Otherwise, i would reccommend that you at the very least make the transfusing a free action at the bonfire
Sagil Jan 12, 2024 @ 1:11am 
Agreed that getting transfusions working seems pretty difficult. Maybe instead of giving curses based on difficulty, allow transfusions with either 2 or three cards, but add a curse when done with two? And the starter relic could make transfusions a free campfire action.
Sage the Drifter Jan 12, 2024 @ 1:23am 
Yeah just thought of that as well!
How about this:
1. transfusion takes 2 cards.
2. 1 curse per UN-upgraded card used
3. transfusion is a free action

With 2 cards its more realistic that you are even able to do transfusion. And by gaining cursus as a result of unupgraded cards the starter cards are basically off-limits whilst making common card transfusions in later game more advantageous! In addition a nice call back to the ancient egg relic (unupgraded gives cursus, but cards after the relic give upgrade :D)
Also you cant do campfire actions after smithing, so that still makes it slightly more difficult despite it being a free action.
The idea of starter relic making transfusion free is also quite interesting!
Last edited by Sage the Drifter; Jan 12, 2024 @ 1:27am
Walux  [developer] Jan 12, 2024 @ 4:54am 
Originally posted by Sage the Drifter:
I noticed that i felt very little urge to gather cards for transfusing. Botttled storm (as an example) didnt really work in my deck, but would be nice as a relic. I could get 2 copies at once, but didnt because waiting for the 3th card meant 2 bloating cards in the meantime. I feel like saving up cards to turn them into a relic (with sometimes getting cursus aswell) and then using up a bonfire for it is very expensive for just 1 relic.

In short. i believe that transfusing is just to costly atm.
I tohught about a possible rebalance that might be more cost friendly: you can turn 1 upgraded card into a relic. If its not upgraded + 1 curse, if its comon +1 curse, if its both +2 curse.
I realise that this does drift away from the original concept to some degree, but it's just a thought :)
Otherwise, i would reccommend that you at the very least make the transfusing a free action at the bonfire

Interesting take.
For the time being, expect the infusion mechanic to become a Free action soon.
Last edited by Walux; Jan 12, 2024 @ 4:54am
Walux  [developer] Jan 12, 2024 @ 5:00am 
Originally posted by Sage the Drifter:
Yeah just thought of that as well!
How about this:
1. transfusion takes 2 cards.
2. 1 curse per UN-upgraded card used
3. transfusion is a free action

With 2 cards its more realistic that you are even able to do transfusion. And by gaining cursus as a result of unupgraded cards the starter cards are basically off-limits whilst making common card transfusions in later game more advantageous! In addition a nice call back to the ancient egg relic (unupgraded gives cursus, but cards after the relic give upgrade :D)
Also you cant do campfire actions after smithing, so that still makes it slightly more difficult despite it being a free action.
The idea of starter relic making transfusion free is also quite interesting!

In addition to the free action idea, I will most likely make Infusions generate one less curse for each upgraded card about to be removed. But infusions will still prioritize unupgraded copies over upgraded ones.
Walux  [developer] Jan 13, 2024 @ 7:24am 
Patch is live for Infusion being now a Free Action !
Last edited by Walux; Jan 13, 2024 @ 7:24am
Sage the Drifter Jan 18, 2024 @ 2:22pm 
the current mechanic still feels rather unrewarding. Like mentioned before, getting 3 copies can be quite though, but seen as common cards result in a curse, there are very few situations where infusing has more benefits than downsides.
Sagil Jan 26, 2024 @ 11:55pm 
With 3 eternal copies of a card, you can gain an infinite number of copies of the matching relic. A little problematic in term of balance, to say the least. Some possible solutions:
(a) Don't allow infusing of relicards.
(b) Require at least one non-eternal copy when infusing.
Walux  [developer] Jan 27, 2024 @ 11:51am 
Originally posted by Sagil:
With 3 eternal copies of a card, you can gain an infinite number of copies of the matching relic. A little problematic in term of balance, to say the least. Some possible solutions:
(a) Don't allow infusing of relicards.
(b) Require at least one non-eternal copy when infusing.

About time someone successfully got 3 copies of Eternal :D
I guess it is not too rare to make it happen after all @Sagil :steammocking:

Let's explore both options you mentionned :
(a) Reasonable, although the idea of having relic effects stack (especially with Stackable relics mod) seems too fun to pass up.
+ : This strongly motivates players to collect Eternals and Relicards.
(b) It would be too much convoluted text to explain that. The priority of copies used by Infusions : Eternal => Unupgraded => Upgraded, can already be confusing for players giving the mod their first run.

The workaround I'm thinking of pushing soon is simple :
The Free action of infusing is not infinite.
Basically, in campfires, you can infuse once + any other option.

This would still keep the (hard-to-get) 3 copies of Eternals rewarding, while not breaking balance too hard. Let me know what you think @Sagil , also thank for being my most supportive subscriber.
Last edited by Walux; Jan 27, 2024 @ 11:51am
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