Hello, thank you so much for making this mod. This mod's existence is the only reason I play Kaiserreich anymore! I do have a couple questions about Germany's starting navy with the rework, however.

Even before WW1, Germany IRL had decided that 11" and 12" guns were insufficient in light of the British 13.5" and 14" guns. As such, I don't understand why Germany keeps the Helgoland Class around, especially after selling SMS Württemberg, one of her few 15" armed ships, to the Ottomans(Especially with how their relations cooled with the Turks after the war and in light of the latter's genocides). In my opinion, they would probably have kept Württemberg, sold one or two of their older 12" armed ships to the Ottomans, and either scrapped the Helgolands entirely or shunted them off into some forgotten African port. They were simply too outclassed in every regard by every battleship in construction at the end of WW1, let alone once the dreadnought race kicked back into gear and especially once tensions with the Union got hot again.

As well, I noticed that their ship classes tend to be scattered all over the place. German doctrine highly encouraged the entire class to be kept together and act as a single unit. This wasn't always the case, like how when showing the flag got SMS Goeben isolated in the Mediterranean Sea at the outset of WW1, but it was something they always tried to keep to.

In case all the above wasn't done in the name of balance, my suggestion would be to:
1. Return the 4th Bayern to Germany in exchange for one or two of either the Kaiser/Konig Class ships Germany starts with.

2. Give all 4 of both the Bayern and Mackensen classes to German East Asia. GEA's Siegfried and Yorck Classes would be given back to Germany proper. To bulk up the numbers, the remaining Kaiser/Konig Class ships could also be given to GEA.

3. The two Derfflinger Class battlecruisers would be given to Mittelafrika to compensate for the loss of their older ships.

4. All 11" armed or otherwise hopelessly obsolete ships would be scrapped (IE: Nassau, Helgoland, and pre-Derfflinger battlecruisers)

This would rationalize Germany's fleets by keeping her strongest units in Northern Europe to counter the resurgent Internationale, maintain a good force in East Asia to counter Japan whilst not being overpowering and requiring the German player to reinforce them eventually, and provide Mittelafrika two flagships to base an east and west fleet around.

Of course, this is your mod to do with as you please, and I'll keep playing with this mod anyways. These are just a couple thoughts I happened to have whilst playing. Thank you very much for making it!

@Gorbian
Hi, thank you for writing down so many suggestions.

I bet you haven't checked my latest update yet, that reflects some of your lines. From this patch, the German navy has a fresh look with four major fleets around the globe. They are Hochsee Flotte, Nordsee Flotte, Ostsee Flotte and Ostasien Flotte, and there are also some small squads deployed in strategic locations.

1. The German fleet still adopts a battle fleet plus scouting fleet pattern as they were in WWI. So you will see their ships grouped in Schlachtgeschwader and Aufklarungsgruppe based on their speed. Like the battle fleet are mostly composed of slow (or relatively slow) battleships, and scouting fleet, battlecruisers and fast battleships.

2. Regarding concentrate ships of one class, I will give you a rough order of battle in 1936.
Schlachtgeschwader I (Nordsee, Home): 1 Schleisien + 4 Preußen
Schlachtgeschwader II (Nordsee, Home): 1 Schleisien + 3 Bayern
Schlachtgeschwader III (Nordsee, Home): 1 Kaiser Wilhelm + 4 Siegfried
Schlachtgeschwader IV (Ostsee, Home): 2 König
Schlachtgeschwader V (Singapore, Ostaisen): 2 Brynhild (sub class of Siegfried modified for infrastructure in Singapore, though they still bear the title of Siegfried class)
Schlachtgeschwader VI (Singapore, Ostaisen): 2 König
Aufklarungsgruppe I (Nordsee, Home): 2 Blücher + 1 Mackensen
Aufklarungsgruppe II (Nordsee, Home): 3 Yorck + 1 Mackensen
Aufklarungsgruppe III (Ostsee, Home): 1 Mackensen
Aufklarungsgruppe IV (Singapore, Ostasien): 2 Yorck + 1 Derfflinger

Other ships are scattered around the world in special service fleets, with the most obsolete ones, such as Helgoland, all based in reserved fleet, Königberg. Armored cruisers are all put to colonial fleets. Germany has one in Mediterranean and two in Sri Lanka.

Mittleafrica, on the other hand, only has three oldest battlecruisers because they don't have any threat in South Atlantic or Indian Ocean, but still need faster and cheaper ships to project influence in that region.

But yeah, I will definitely consider your advice.

I don't know, but this looks like satisfactory for me

Bit late to the thread, but in my personal Opinion, here's how I see it, the Nassau's would be gone from the Main German Navy, I think two would be sold to Denmark and Norway, one to Denmark and one to Norway, a Third would be offered to either of them, but is rejected leaving Germany with two of them left.

Now there are two Options they can do here, option one is simple, they scrap them both, but option 2 is more interesting hand them over, along with the two most modern of the Deutschland-Class Pre-Dreadnoughts to the Baltic States, as more of a deterrent to Russia and you keep the balance between Finland, Sweden and the Baltic States.

As for the Helgoland's well simple really, give one of them along with a Kaiser Class to Belgium and the remaining three, along with the three oldest Battlecruisers to the MAF Navy, and maybe perhaps five the remaining two Deutschland Class pre-dreadnoughts to them or Sell those off to Qing China.

Now as Gorbian noted yeah it feels a bit weird for the Ottomans to have been given one of German's precious 15-inch armed battleships and should have received one or two of the Konig or Kaiser Class instead, however the one thing I do not agree with, is the Bayerns going to GEA, they're in my opinion too slow and short ranged to be effective in the Pacific against the Japanese, so they should stay with Main Imperial German Fleet where they can be better put to use against the similarly aged ships of the Republican Navy and Communal French Navy.

In addition i would like to put fourth that Aufklarungsgruppe III should be comprised of Two Mackensens and Aufklarungsgruppe IV should be Comprised of 1 Mackensen and the two remaining Derfflingers, as the two Yorcks from Aufklarungsgruppe IV would be swapped out for the two Mackensens in the Nordsee and would be reinforced by the other suriving Derfflinger Class, leaving numbers the same but GEA would be weaker in terms of firepower, but that two me would make a bit more sense for Germany to keep the modern Yorcks for themselves.

And as Gorbian said, its your mod I just wanted to give my two cents on the matter

Nassaus are already gone though Major. One in Belgium, second in Qing while three other are mothballed with Qing having option to get at least one more. Still though I kinda miss DH version of Kaiserreich where all Nassaus were part of Qing Navy. Regarding Pre-Dreadnoughts, I honestly don't see much of a point of them being still around. They are blatantly outdated and only reason sole Germany had them in OTL was because they were denied having even Nassaus. Baltic states would rather have more destroyers or proper coastal battleship like Sverige class or Ilmarinen. Add to it they are so old that they should be given older and weaker battery that's actually available in game.

So yeah, I think pre-dreadnoughts would only bring illogical oversaturation, especially since there are actual dreadnoughts still around like mentioned Nassaus. The only reasonable role they could serve would be as training ships, and those wouldn't be visible in game.

Going back to dreadnoughts, 4th Bayern was already brought back to Germany, leaving at the moment Ottomans with Goeben and 2 other dreadnoughts (returned by Britain I presume). Now we have problematic trio of Helgolands, Kaisers and Konigs which all are more capable than Nassaus but also blatantly outdated when compared with newer ones, starting with Bayerns.

Helgolands? Either reserve in which they already are or exports to Qing, Belgium, etc. But I honestly think there are enough Nassaus for that so Helgolands are already perfect where they are.

Konigs? I would agree with Gorbian that they should be together, question where though, given both spots where they are now are valid. Still, Schlachtgeschwader VI in Ostasien seems to be most reasonable given Konigs are the best out of these three while Asiatic theater is more dangerous.

Which leaves Kaisers, which in such case should be all in Ostsee/Baltic Sea, which makes perfect sense. Ostasien fleet face IJN, Ostsee fleet meanwhile Russians, kinda obvious which foe is more dangerous.

Battlecruiser wise? I will disagree with Major. While Ostasien shouldn't be given as much of Kaiserliche Marine like base Kaiserreich mod does, it still should be large enough to pose reasonable threat to Japan. Also, Germany doesn't really need Yorcks that much, since it's already having 2 (+2 in production) Bluchers which are proper fast battleships. 3 oldest battlecruisers are where they possibly belong outside scrapyard (maby give Moltke to Ottomans but I will come back to that later). I am only not sure what to do with Iron Dogs. I first thought both of them should be in Ostsee in place of single Mackensen which would be sent to Ostasien. Problem is though that stats wise, Borodinos/Izmails eat Derfflingers. Lore wise though? Honestly I think Derfflinger and Hindenburg would be proper direct response on Baltic against Borodino and Izmail, especially since Hochseeflotte could easily reinforce Baltic. So yeah, I think Hindenburg could be switched with Furst Bismarck and both Derfflingers would be part of Aufklarungsgruppe III.

Now then, Ottomans and exports for last. I talked with MrPunk regarding 4th Bayern, and I proposed that in order to both bring it back to it's class but also don't rob Ottomans, they could be given instead another warship of such capabilities (so no Nassau/Helgoland/Kaiser). And amusingly enough, there actually was perfect candidate. That being Salamis. While initially meant for Greece, WW1 happened but hull was still in place to be finished, like Bayerns or Mackensens were in Kaiserreich. And while giving it to Ottomans in place of 4th Bayern is one option, it honestly is one of many. From what I seen in files, MrPunk wanted to give it to Qing given it's GFX name. Just as much it can be still sent to Greece for normalization of German-Greece relations, though that might be a stretch given such move would piss off actual German allies in the region. Spain, Argentine, Republic of Italy. Many picks for such warship. Though I think Ottomans would be best one, both for mentioned replacement argument but also irony that warship which was meant to fight Ottomans, was given to them instead.

If not, also possiblity to give them Moltke. They already have experience with Goeben, all while Mittelafrika could manage with single battlecruiser per side of Africa, that being West and East.

Having read over Spartanish, I will concede the idea that Pre-Dreadnoughts are hopelessly obsolete, however that doesn't mean that they're worthless, as the Qing have two plus Salamis, that being said they're not so obsolete that a second rate navy, such as Say, the Princely Federation or the Baltic States wouldn't have use for them, as with older patches and still newer ones, the Russian's have an interesting mix of ships including pre-dreadnoughts, so a small fleet in the Baltic States centred around the Nassau plus two Pre-dreadnoughts would at the time the German Empire decided to create the Baltic State navy, would deem Good enough to act as a deterrent, or maybe they will all be sold off to the Qing, as two already have been, the Princely Federation to keep up their numbers against the remnants of the Raj and the up and coming Commune to their east or as a wild card to Peru, due to the threat of the Socialist Chile to their south and their large navy.

As for the problematic Trio: The Helgolands, Kaisers and Konig's I'll have to disagree with you on the Kaisers and Helgolands.

Firstly, The Helgolands are crippled by their layout just like the Nassau's as they share the very dubious and outdated layout, of that similar to Semi-Dreadnoughts, though unlike the four Nassau's which were further hobbled by their power plants not being Turbines but old Triple-Expansion engines, I believe they would be phased out just as quickly as the Nassau's and Pre-Dreadnoughts from the Main German Fleet, as you said one is already in Belgium, that was my mistake for not remembering that tid-bit, but I stand by them not being staying in the main German Fleet and instead handed over to the Imperial Mittleafrikan Navy.

Secondly, the Kaisers, the Kaisers are edging on too old and hampered by their Layout Similar to the Moltke's, yet I don't see that being as big as an issue like the Nassau's the Helgoland's or any of the Pre-Dreadnoughts, so with the exception of Kaiser, which I believe is with the Belgiums, they should be in the Ostsee Flotte along with the two of the Konig's to deter the Russian's

As for the Battlecruisers, I stand by the fact the Imperal Mittleafrikan Navy should keep the three oldest Battlecruisers for their Western part of the Navy, to deter the Brazilian's, Argentine and possibly the Chilean Navies in check, whilst for their Eastern Navy they should have the Three remaining Helgolands there.

As for the Mackensen's, Yorck's and Derfflingers, I personally stand by my previous point, it at least to me, doesn't make much sense for Germany to Mix and Match their Scouting forces, as I believe they would of taken the lesson's they learned at the 1st Dogger Bank to heart, and parcelling out their precious 15-inch gun armed ships to the GEA wouldn't make sense when you consider the Republican Navy, has built a very fierce scouting force, so I could honestly see Germany handing over the Mackensen's and Derfflingers to the GEA along with most if not all of the Pocket-Battleships, or better yet OTL Scharnhorsts with six 15-inch guns are built to reinforce the GEA Scouting forces to give the GEA Navy a bit of a boost

As for the Ottoman's honestly, I don't really know what to do with them, other than maybe hand them them one of the Konig's and given them two additional ships, in the for of MAAAYBE the Lord Nelson Pre-Dreadnoughts, which whilst yes are Pre-Dreadnoughts, they're some of the most modern ones ever built and given what the Ottoman's have to face, I don't see them having two Pre-Dreadnoughts as too much of a breaking from reality.

@Spartanish @The Major Grand Nope
Thank you for your detailed writings, they are very helpful to me.

Regarding battleships, I have removed all Nassaus from active service. One of them was sold to Qing as a replacement of Salamis because I think the latter had no reason to be continued after 5-6 years of suspension when Germany needed dockyards its own shipbuilding programs. Helgolands mostly serve in reserved fleet.

I see no reason why Nordic countries would ever choose to buy obsolete dreadnoughts. First of all it's too expensive for their economy, secondly dreadnoughts don't fit in their coastal navy, just purchasing a fleet flagship is really unnecessary. Konigs and Kaisers should be add to Ostsee fleet or Ostasien fleet without doubt.

Regarding battlecruisers, I agree they should be concentrated by class. Only 2 Blucher and 3 Yorck are not enough for German Home Fleet, so I still believe a pair of Mackensen or Derfflinger will remain in Germany.

As for African squadron, it doesn't really need dreadnought. To project influence in South Atlantic and Indian Ocean, it needs cruisers.

Also Question, What happened to the Three 13.5 inch Battlecruisers of the Royal Navy, Lion, Princess Royal and Tiger? Were they scrapped at some point before the British Revolution, because I know Tiger or Lion is technically in Canada and Serbia can buy her, but honestly I would like to see them on the map in say the Pacific squadron.

Originally posted by The Major Grand Nope:

Also Question, What happened to the Three 13.5 inch Battlecruisers of the Royal Navy, Lion, Princess Royal and Tiger? Were they scrapped at some point before the British Revolution, because I know Tiger or Lion is technically in Canada and Serbia can buy her, but honestly I would like to see them on the map in say the Pacific squadron.

most likely scrapped