Prometheans and Furores are both proto-Anarchs. Prometheans want to restore Carthage, not something the Ventrue who dominate Via Regalis are fond of. Since its a path that is opposed to the Masquerade and otherwise very lax, its very different from Road of Kings, Humanity and Heaven. Thats why we put it in the Road of Sin, like Via Adversarius.

In DAV, Prometheans are not represented as a separate road/path. We made it its own faith. What it regards as criminal and shunned is quite different from Regalis. Many characters in the lore listed as Humanity have been changed to faiths we made for the mod.

Making a new "non-caitiff" hating faith for Caitiff sounds like a fun idea.

I get that the mod is still in an early phase but there are some key issues that need to be sorted out eventually.

Mainly its that the mod is trying to do stuff that the base game was never made for.

As an example, the base games puts a huge emphasis on culture/religion. This is still present in the mod as vanilla game mechanics. The problem is that per WOD, culture/religion matters very little to vampires at this point and mortals in a province shouldn't even know you exist, let alone what path you follow.

So when you take the characters from the lore and put lots of different culture/religion characters in the same spot, you get massive unrest and your starting vassals instantly join a faction against you because of the culture/religion penalties, which make no sense lore wise and makes certain countries a pain to start as.

I mean, imagine starting as any country in vanilla CK3 and your country implodes within the first year because everyone is a mix of culture/religions and all your counties are rebelling. That wouldn't be very fun would it?

The problem is that its such an integral mechanic to the base game that removing it leaves a huge hole left. So for example, lore wise, culture/religion doesnt matter much for vampires, so suddenly things like converting counties and councillors dont matter, nor does making sure you have vassals of the right culture to rule over foreign lands. But making it matter like in vanilla means that many countries implode at the start due to the foreign culture + religion penalties.

Some of the other key mechanics that are problematic when adapted into the mod :

-Alliances being tied to marriages, this makes no sense for vampires obviously, especially since you have to embrace children JUST to make alliances...which causes a hefty piety penalty for some religions. And embracing shouldnt give a piety penalty at all, it should cost some other resources or provide some other drawback, but losing devotion because you embraced someone just makes no sense lore wise. Very few cainites, especially the elders, considered embracing to be "evil". In this era, embracing was considered a gift even and is even alluded to as such in some of the event text.

-All rulers being immortal cause problems because many game mechanics assume the rulers will eventually die of old age, causing alliances to end and their heirs to take over. In the mod, if you get a 0 stewardship vassal, you are stuck with him forever unless you murder him, and it turns into a micromanagement game where you re-roll vassals till you get one with good skills that you dont want to kill. Theres no way for them to get better in terms of skills (other than a few random events) because the base game assumes the rulers dont live long enough to do so. The base games assumes that over the course of the 600 years of the game, the skill levels of your vassals will average out as they constantly die, but this doesnt work with immortal vassals and trying to move vassals around to more appropriate roles gets everyone pissed at you.

-Similar to the above, marriage and dynasty mechanics are a huge part of the base game, but in the mod its totally irrelevant because all rulers are immortal and you cant have your children inherit another country's throne the normal way. Succession laws are also irrelevant because everyone is on oldest inherit + feudal elective.

-Educating your heirs, childhood events and choosing a ward/guardian for your heir are also irrelevant. So is arranging a marriage and trying to pass down good traits, many house/dynastic mechanics also don't really work. Dynasty heads can only be chosen from house heads, and after losing their land, your house head can wander all the way from Spain to Persia and since he's immortal, you have no way to take over as house head or even form a cadet branch because he's alive. Kinslaying as well, you get kinslayer if you execute a character from the same clan, which doesnt make sense for vampires. You should only get kinslayer if you kill your sire or your direct siblings.

-The AI doesn't seem to know how to deal with all the infertile rulers either. Most of my vassals either marry mortals (and then never re-marry after they die) or sit there with no spouse forever. This is very inefficient because the base game assumes that they will have spouses assisting them for skill bonuses. The AI rulers that do marry other vampires seem to be top realm rulers only who are doing it for alliances.

-Knights being super powerful are cool...but the AI doesn't realise this, they don't look for high prowess knights or spam the invite knight decision. Once the big empires deplete their starting pool of high prowess knight, they can't get them back the way players do and they start sending mortals in as knights because the AI doesnt think its doing anything wrong. Many times, they end up assigning high prowess characters as indirect vassals so they end up fighting for a duke instead of the emperor.

-There doesnt appear to be many intrigue options either. Murder schemes are (mostly) irrelevant because you cant murder your way to a throne and let your heir inherit. Most characters have secrets that cant be used for blackmail so its pointless to investigate them.

-Keeping vassals happy after you max out the "long reign" modifier is a piece of cake. Its like +50 or more? In vanilla, your ruler would eventually die and the new ruler would get hit with a -20 short reign penalty and thats when kingdoms become stable. But in the mod, everything is perfectly stable after the early game. Theres no partition to cause problems in the early game either.

If I had to describe what my experience has been like...its like EU4 blobbing except with immortal rulers and vassals. When you see people talking about CK3 stuff, like partitions, kingdoms breaking up, murdering for thrones, getting good heirs, vassals declaring independence wars, inheriting thrones, etc...its totally absent from the mod's gameplay. I just end up declaring wars every 5 years when a truce expires to grab more land because theres nothing else to do.

I was hoping to get a discussion going with more users of the mod, but there doesnt appear to be much discussion going on in the forums here sadly.

Might be more discussion in the Paradox Plaza User mod forums. Some of the issues you bring up we are trying to address.

Blood Marriages/Vermillion Weddings are a thing in VTM. In V5, the Vermillion Wedding allows the preservationist Banu Haqim to join the Camarilla despite the protests of the (fractured) Tremere clan.

Ghouls and Herds will reopen the breeding game for vampires.

" Kinslaying as well, you get kinslayer if you execute a character from the same clan, which doesnt make sense for vampires. You should only get kinslayer if you kill your sire or your direct siblings."

Kinslaying crime varies based on faith. Kinslaying as a sin is inherent to the Caine/Abel mythos.

"The AI doesn't seem to know how to deal with all the infertile rulers either. Most of my vassals either marry mortals (and then never re-marry after they die) or sit there with no spouse forever. This is very inefficient because the base game assumes that they will have spouses assisting them for skill bonuses. The AI rulers that do marry other vampires seem to be top realm rulers only who are doing it for alliances."

Some of our faiths have marriage. Some have a special "no marriage" doctrine. AI rulers still marrying for alliances is great. Some AI marrying mortals spouses for a slight skill bonus is fine. I don't see the problem. There has been some work done in our dev build to make marriages easier for vampires.

"trying to move vassals around to more appropriate roles gets everyone pissed at you."

As a vampire, you have even more ways than mortals to deal with opinion management.

"And embracing shouldnt give a piety penalty at all, it should cost some other resources or provide some other drawback, but losing devotion because you embraced someone just makes no sense lore wise. Very few cainites, especially the elders, considered embracing to be "evil". In this era, embracing was considered a gift even and is even alluded to as such in some of the event text."

Thats just like your opinion. ;) Vampires have variable beliefs. Many regard their condition as literal "damnation". We have variable penalties depending on faith. If your faith has a conscience tenet, then there is a piety cost for killing mortals. Embrace does kill mortals.Not only are you killing them, you are dooming them into becoming a monster.

We are eliminating a lot of independence revolts against vampires.

Originally posted by Sparc:

Ghouls and Herds will reopen the breeding game for vampires.

First, let me save how much I am enjoying your work :D

Quick question if I may, are ghouls already included as a feature or are they planned?

One of the first things I did was start mortal breeding pairs (couldn't help myself :D) with the view to having a pool of beautiful genius divine pureblood mortals to embrace in the coming centuries.

It still works with just mortals, I will embrace them before they get wrinkly and then crossbreed their progeny :D

Ghouls are planned, not yet in the mod.

Originally posted by Sparc:

Ghouls are planned, not yet in the mod.

Looking forward to it, it gets inconvenient when your juicebags loyal mortal servants up and die on you!

Quick P.S. Any chance you could add in Prias in Cagliari? :D