No Guts No Glory 2 hours ago
I want to ask about compatibility with Prisoner Harvesting mod. I dont really like getting malus at all and since your mod doesnt have options for some reason so people could actually adjust values to their liking i have to use another mod to fix this problem (unless ofc i want to dig into files which i dont)

So in order for Prisoner Harvesting overwritting your mod, do i have to load it before or after your mod?

Rainbeau Flambe 1 hour ago
@Guts: First, as to your specific question, if you want one mod's values to overwrite another mod's values, load the mod with the values you prefer, last. It's pretty basic. The later load overwrites the earlier load.

As to the rest of your message....

The mod doesn't contain any options because it's an XML mod, not a C# mod. Without actual coding, options menus can't be created.

But more importantly, the whole point of the mod is to rebalance the buff and debuff values to better simulate a realistic survival environment. The intent of the mod is to create a specific "mood," not to allow users to simply adjust the values to whatever suits their fancy. This isn't a "problem" that needs to be "fixed"; it's a deliberate design choice.

If all you want is an "easy mode" mod that will eliminate mood debuffs so you never have to worry about pawns being unhappy, well, you're looking in the wrong place.

No Guts No Glory 1 hour ago
@Rainbeau Flambe i never said that i want easy mod. All i said is that i want to be malus-free from butchering stuff, including people. They attacked my colony and at that moment they lost human rights (not like any human rights exist at the Rimworld to begin with) so i dont see any good reason for my colonists to be upset/sad/mad from butchering other people who are not from my colony.

Thanks for the loading order tip though.

⚝SheiFoxy⚝ [author] 3 minutes ago
@No Guts No Glory This mod does not aim to give users unlimited control over how to tweak every one of the options they might want to tweak. If they/you want to do that, you can literally just do what I did, and change a value in the xml. No problem.

This mod's value lies in a careful rebalance made by a woman who has a genius mind for game balance and who has over two decades of experience balancing games, and has even written her own fully-functional RPG system, twice.

We decided to balance butchering as we did because even if someone comes in and tries to kill you, kills your friend, your family... You may kill them. May want them dead. But that doesn't mean that mutilating a corpse doesn't distrub you.
Most humans react negatively to mutilating a corpse, even if they don't like the person, or the person was dispicable.

In fact, most humans recoil from even seeing a mutilated body. Plus there are elements you don't seem to be thinking about. The smell. Smelling a dead body is horrifying. Touching, cutting flesh and bone? Most people, untrained in such things, would vomit.

And not sure if you're out to feed these bastards to the dogs or eat them, but honestly, either one would freak the common folk right out.
Watching dogs tear a human's body bits apart would be horrifying. And going cannibal... tends to take either generations, religion, or extreme starvation.

So ultimately, we chose that there was still a malus.
As we wrote it, the entire population won't just stack their hatred of the butcher sky-high when they're butchering up a guy who killed their wife.

But the butcher will get disturbed her/himself.

Because that is not pleasant business.

⚝SheiFoxy⚝ [author] 2 minutes ago
And if you don't enjoy that decision, yes just load another mod that fixes it below this mod. By all means, enjoy the game as you wish to! I'm not saying my mod is the best way. I am saying it was carefully balanced to create a feel we wanted in the game, a situation we felt was realistic based on our experiences with a lot of survival content, and a lot of personal research (again, we're authors. An author's second job is research.)

This mod won't make everyone happy, no matter what we do. So if you want something changed, I encourage you to change it. Use another mod, or overwite a value. Make your own mod! You can pull out the def with the value you want changed and just change it. Xpath that and package it up and put it over this mod.

But I'm not changing this mod to suit individual requests unless they happen to strike me and my Wifey as a better balance idea than that which we've already put out.

Also, I can't code in C## so I can't make mod menus.

So I hope that answers your questions on why we did things the way we did.

Cheers and happy Rimworlding!

Originally posted by ⚝SheiFoxy⚝:

⚝SheiFoxy⚝ [author] 3 minutes ago
@No Guts No Glory This mod does not aim to give users unlimited control over how to tweak every one of the options they might want to tweak. If they/you want to do that, you can literally just do what I did, and change a value in the xml. No problem.

This mod's value lies in a careful rebalance made by a woman who has a genius mind for game balance and who has over two decades of experience balancing games, and has even written her own fully-functional RPG system, twice.

We decided to balance butchering as we did because even if someone comes in and tries to kill you, kills your friend, your family... You may kill them. May want them dead. But that doesn't mean that mutilating a corpse doesn't distrub you.
Most humans react negatively to mutilating a corpse, even if they don't like the person, or the person was dispicable.

In fact, most humans recoil from even seeing a mutilated body. Plus there are elements you don't seem to be thinking about. The smell. Smelling a dead body is horrifying. Touching, cutting flesh and bone? Most people, untrained in such things, would vomit.

And not sure if you're out to feed these bastards to the dogs or eat them, but honestly, either one would freak the common folk right out.
Watching dogs tear a human's body bits apart would be horrifying. And going cannibal... tends to take either generations, religion, or extreme starvation.

So ultimately, we chose that there was still a malus.
As we wrote it, the entire population won't just stack their hatred of the butcher sky-high when they're butchering up a guy who killed their wife.

But the butcher will get disturbed her/himself.

Because that is not pleasant business.

I work as a doctor so sight and smell of mutilated or dead body is nothing new to me. Cant really say it is that disgusting though but people in my area of expertise are often little bit morbid. It is not pleasant business sure but honestly i can tell that people who atleast once per life butchered any animal or atleast seen some more serious injury can usually stand the sight and smell of mutilated body.

Cutting through bone is bit unsettling especially if pacient is not happy with that and is actively resisting despite the fact that you are trying to save his life, but one gets used to it.

It is true though that i will never forget the guy who tried to kill himself by pouring acid into his throat. Half of his face and neck was just melted and even when we all knew he was done for and we couldnt do anything to save him we had to prolong his suffering for another 43 minutes before his organs finally said "♥♥♥♥ it" and stopped working. Laws about this are simply stupid.

Treating gunshot wounds or stabs/cuts is either easy or one of the worst things you can do. It all depends on the weapon used. Seriously ♥♥♥♥ the guy who invented 5.45x39mm calliber, that thing is almost untreatable. Once you get hit by that bullet it will not go through you, instead it will start spinning, tearing flesh and then it will stop on other side of your body. And you have to somehow save a guy who have tunnel 3cm x 3cm through his chest. Same goes to old-style bayonets with triangle tip, extremelly hard to stich up. Or even better, serrated blades. Just lovely playing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Tetris with time limit and blood pouring all over the place.

But all in all, it is not that disgusting. One can get used to it fairly quickly.

Dude, I don't envy you or your job. I could never do it.

But I will say from a lot of personal experiences and research, not everyone can do that ♥♥♥♥. In fact, a large amount of the population recoils from it because it is horrifying.

Everything you just described was horrifying.

It's not just disgust. It's horror.

And that's why we chose the malus to occur as they do.

Thank you for being a doctor. You do a job I could never do. I appreciate your willingness to work in such a field.

From quick searching, I think about 3% of the population are doctors? Even up to 10%, out of your 10 colonists, 1 can handle that ♥♥♥♥ (and in some cases, gotta realize you just made them the doctor because you had to have one and they learned it from there. Doesn't mean it's easy on them.)
At 100 colonists, you have 10 people who've fortified up enough to handle that stuff.

Your butchers deal with dead bodies all the time. They can handle animals. But humans might freak them out.

Some people will handle it better than others, sure. But I sadly don't have the coding abilities to make it affect different people differently. That's outside the realms of altering vanilla values which is all I can do.

And yes, the ♥♥♥♥ you said about bullets.. those are some awful weapons. My wife heavily and extensively researches fighting and weapon wounds. When I read your post to her, she was nodding her head before I finished reading the caliber numbers, talking about how bad that ♥♥♥♥ is. She understands that and appreciates your views on it. (She also presumes you speak of the bayonet from some history or research? And if not, wonders where you're from that you've had to deal with those.)

Regardless, we are not able to balance this to everyone's liking. We did our best, and it's where we want it for now. Thank you for your suggestions. We will keep them in mind for the future.

I have contemplated a darker version of this mod with even more grim and gritty themes, but it's not on the plate at the moment. If I DO make it, it'll probably be with your idea in mind.

Do layer the other mod over this one for what you want. It should layer fine.

Cheers!

Originally posted by ⚝SheiFoxy⚝:

Dude, I don't envy you or your job. I could never do it.

But I will say from a lot of personal experiences and research, not everyone can do that ♥♥♥♥. In fact, a large amount of the population recoils from it because it is horrifying.

Everything you just described was horrifying.

It's not just disgust. It's horror.

And that's why we chose the malus to occur as they do.

Thank you for being a doctor. You do a job I could never do. I appreciate your willingness to work in such a field.

From quick searching, I think about 3% of the population are doctors? Even up to 10%, out of your 10 colonists, 1 can handle that ♥♥♥♥ (and in some cases, gotta realize you just made them the doctor because you had to have one and they learned it from there. Doesn't mean it's easy on them.)
At 100 colonists, you have 10 people who've fortified up enough to handle that stuff.

Your butchers deal with dead bodies all the time. They can handle animals. But humans might freak them out.

Some people will handle it better than others, sure. But I sadly don't have the coding abilities to make it affect different people differently. That's outside the realms of altering vanilla values which is all I can do.

And yes, the ♥♥♥♥ you said about bullets.. those are some awful weapons. My wife heavily and extensively researches fighting and weapon wounds. When I read your post to her, she was nodding her head before I finished reading the caliber numbers, talking about how bad that ♥♥♥♥ is. She understands that and appreciates your views on it. (She also presumes you speak of the bayonet from some history or research? And if not, wonders where you're from that you've had to deal with those.)

Regardless, we are not able to balance this to everyone's liking. We did our best, and it's where we want it for now. Thank you for your suggestions. We will keep them in mind for the future.

I have contemplated a darker version of this mod with even more grim and gritty themes, but it's not on the plate at the moment. If I DO make it, it'll probably be with your idea in mind.

Do layer the other mod over this one for what you want. It should layer fine.

Cheers!

Thanks for the reply and support, it means alot.

I completely agree with your comment. My first comment was made like 10 minutes after discovering your mod and i admit that i posted it without any deep thought. Your explanation makes perfect sense (plus i shouldnt really be commenting about this topic because i am obviously changed by my job when it comes to this)

I just realised i must sound like total psychopath without any emotions. I am sorry about that.

And where i had to deal with bayonet wound? Afghanistan. People here kill each other with anything availaible.
They dragged the poor guy in, i think he was British because the uniform he was wearing, blood all over him. I expected that he had to be full of bullets and when i asked "Where they shot him?" i was told that someone jumped from behind the corner with some antique rifle, maybe even musket and instead of shooting he just stabbed him with fixed bayonet. And the worst part is that nobody does teach nowadays how to treat such wound. I had to improvise with only theory based on some documentary about American Civil War i saw years ago. Luckily it worked in the end.

I always said that if one wants to be good and experienced doctor, just go to any warzone which have any fighting currently going on. Nothing can suprise you after treating wounds caused by another human because sadly, humans were always very innovative in ways of killing each other. "Conflict is judge of evolution" was the saying i believe? Very accurate when it comes to humans.

Sadly there is price for this kind of experience. In best case, memories you never forget with occassional nightmare like Humvee full of pieces of its crew after it was hit by an RPG (once again thanks Russia for cheap-ass weapon that is easy to use and kills people VERY effectively)
In worst case PTSD, injury or even death. Afterall having to deal with injured people when bullets are flying above your head does teach you how to work fast with maximal effectivity.
Alternatively if one is civilian doctor they can just volunteer for Red Cross so they dont have to risk getting shot (atleast not that much) and still get the experience from warzone.

I look toward your grimdark version of this mod, love this mod already, you have done amazing job! :-)

See, all that? Horror.
I am so sorry you've had to experience all of that.
Fun fact: I have PTSD. I have it from severe childhood abuse, and an experience made it worse when a straight-line wind (think tornado that doesn't spin) hit my home and put a tree through it in two places. One of the trees landed on me. My daughter was almost killed by the other, and when I got up to check on them, I yelled as loud as I could and got no answer. So I thought they were dead.

Long story short.. I understand PTSD. I still consider myself lucky my PTSD isn't from war. Both are awful and cause long-term problems. But I still don't envy anyone out in the middle of such awful war.

You don't sound like a psychopath. You sound like someone who has experienced the burdens of a doctor. Now I totally understand why.

Do you live in Afganistan? If you don't mind.

A friend of ours had a brother who died in a Humvee to an RPG. It was a closed casket funeral and it was a terrible time for all of us who knew him. I didn't know him well. Had only met him once or twice, but his brother was so lost. We were all so shocked that he had been in a convoy one minute (on his way home) and dead the next.

My wife says the IEDs are the scariest to her. Those things are just horrifying and they kill so easily.

I do think based on this, your experiences definitely color your views. I have a friend who is a butcher. He LOVES his job. He really enjoys learning the cuts and he loves taking home a steak he cut himself and eating it. (I couldn't do this. I am squeamish af.)

But we had a convo once about zombie apocalyse stuff for fun, and I said he would be in charge of carving up the jerks when they tried to kill us and we had to kill them first. He said even he wouldn't handle that well. Cutting up a human would be way harder than an animal. He said he knew, ultimately, the animals had souls and feelings too, but we're inured to it as humans because we've been eating animals for millenia. But we're not okay with eating other people.

Like I said, generational, religious, or *extreme* starvation.

And I think that's different from digging into someone to SAVE them.

But! Ultimately, Rimworld is a gritty place, and I am convinced I'll probably make a grimmer version when I have time. Maybe after my next book launch on Halloween. :) Going to try to update all my other mods then too.

Anyway, best to you and thank you for the conversation. My wife and I love interacting with people with such real-world experience. Not just for book research. We just enjoy learning about others' experiences. We have a fan in South Africa who is a trainer in the military police and he sends us vids of their training and gun tests and stuff and it's really awesome. But they're not on the frontlines, so it's a very different tone.

Anyway, again, thanks. Good luck and happy Rimworlding!

:)

Originally posted by ⚝SheiFoxy⚝:

See, all that? Horror.
I am so sorry you've had to experience all of that.
Fun fact: I have PTSD. I have it from severe childhood abuse, and an experience made it worse when a straight-line wind (think tornado that doesn't spin) hit my home and put a tree through it in two places. One of the trees landed on me. My daughter was almost killed by the other, and when I got up to check on them, I yelled as loud as I could and got no answer. So I thought they were dead.

Long story short.. I understand PTSD. I still consider myself lucky my PTSD isn't from war. Both are awful and cause long-term problems. But I still don't envy anyone out in the middle of such awful war.

You don't sound like a psychopath. You sound like someone who has experienced the burdens of a doctor. Now I totally understand why.

Do you live in Afganistan? If you don't mind.

A friend of ours had a brother who died in a Humvee to an RPG. It was a closed casket funeral and it was a terrible time for all of us who knew him. I didn't know him well. Had only met him once or twice, but his brother was so lost. We were all so shocked that he had been in a convoy one minute (on his way home) and dead the next.

My wife says the IEDs are the scariest to her. Those things are just horrifying and they kill so easily.

I do think based on this, your experiences definitely color your views. I have a friend who is a butcher. He LOVES his job. He really enjoys learning the cuts and he loves taking home a steak he cut himself and eating it. (I couldn't do this. I am squeamish af.)

But we had a convo once about zombie apocalyse stuff for fun, and I said he would be in charge of carving up the jerks when they tried to kill us and we had to kill them first. He said even he wouldn't handle that well. Cutting up a human would be way harder than an animal. He said he knew, ultimately, the animals had souls and feelings too, but we're inured to it as humans because we've been eating animals for millenia. But we're not okay with eating other people.

Like I said, generational, religious, or *extreme* starvation.

And I think that's different from digging into someone to SAVE them.

But! Ultimately, Rimworld is a gritty place, and I am convinced I'll probably make a grimmer version when I have time. Maybe after my next book launch on Halloween. :) Going to try to update all my other mods then too.

Anyway, best to you and thank you for the conversation. My wife and I love interacting with people with such real-world experience. Not just for book research. We just enjoy learning about others' experiences. We have a fan in South Africa who is a trainer in the military police and he sends us vids of their training and gun tests and stuff and it's really awesome. But they're not on the frontlines, so it's a very different tone.

Anyway, again, thanks. Good luck and happy Rimworlding!

I am sorry you had to go through this. PTSD is terrible, no matter where it comes from.

IED´s are no longer the problem they used to be. Sure they are still increadibly dangerous for infantry but ever since NATO here started using MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicles it got much better. Fun thing is that Americans were the last to start using them en masse.

Whenever one takes a look at statistic you will pretty much always see American and British casualties are by far ahead of rest.
"Ohh but they have more soldiers than rest of NATO active in warzone" one might say.
Yeah they do but main problem is their gear. America spend crazy money on their military but the distribution is really bad. Sure buy new warship with top-notch tech but give your Marines better gear? Nah. Poor guys were wearing "bulletproof" vests that were tested against 9mm bullet when they are getting shot at by guys using AK-47 and AK-74, both terribly effective. And even better they were using (and still use) 5.56x45mm which is just bad. One might argue that the bullet is "humane" and it is "modern and effective" but no it is not. You need to hit a dude atleast three times to kill him unless you score vital hit or headshot. And they (jihadists) are not wearing vests, in Syria you can see what happens when they start wearing them. NATO forces getting destroyed by 1:1 or 1:2 despite training and gear advantage. But the jihadists who are basically guys in shirt with an AK-47 or AK-74 need to hit only once thanks to the bullet they are using to either kill or knockout soldier from combat.

I recall how several US SF´s came to soldiers from my country and traded their pimped M4´s with attachements etc. everything easily worth several thousand dollars for our Vz.58´s which is old yet perfect weapon, never jams, dont care if you drop it or tank drives over it. It will simply keep working. And it also uses 7.62x39mm which is much more effective than 5.56x45mm in terms of raw power, range and penetration. And they did so simply because they were fed up with their weapons constantly jamming from sand and not bein able to penetrate walls.

And as you can probably say by now, no i dont live in Afganistan. Althrough cant say i am happy to be from Czech Republic when all one hears after he gets back from mission is stuff like "filthy mercenary" and "die scum". Not everyone is like that but even 1 out of 10 is more heard than the rest when it comes to this.

My wifey will be super interested to hear that about the IEDs. She follows these things pretty intently due to her interests, but apparently she hadn't learned that yet.

I'm American, and I know about the supplyline issues. :c
I absolutely hate how our soldiers are abandoned and used as fodder.
If I had the power to change things...
Well, I vote and it still doesn't change things, and sadly that's most of what I can do. I advocate. I sign petitions. But ultimately, individuals without great amounts of wealth hold very little power in America.

I don't know as much about the Czech Republic as I'd like. Lovely language. I am really sad people treat you that way there. They are so ignorant.

All vets should be treated with honor and given the care and payment they need for supporting all our peace, safety, and freedoms.

If you want, friend me. I think we get on well. :)

Also, after all this, I definitely understand your views on the Grim Reality settings. I do think it's because you've endured things most people never have or will. Perhaps our survivors would be such in a few years or generations... But not at first. And I wish now I could code a progression.
Maybe the more raids, the more these things change. I don't know a way to do it though.

Maybe someday someone will make that mod. I'd play it.

Regardless, Cheers!

@Paladin
There are entire tribes who sleep on the ground all the time their entire lives and it doesn't turn them into raging lunatics willing to set their own home on fire.

Unfortunately there's not a separate system for "i like this" and "this thing may cause me to go on a killing spree". There's also not a separation between tribals and industrialists. You have one value for all.

So our balancing factors for things like this were based more on whether or not it should send you into a murderous rage, or if it's just a thing you don't like. Also, priorities while trying to survive.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the mod!

Suggestion:

1) Remove malus for Tribal culture pawns eating insect meat, but double it for Glitterworld culture pawns.

Good thought. Not sure how possible it is with XML. But I can check.