Stellaris

Stellaris

Technology Ascendant
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
starchitec  [developer] Aug 5, 2018 @ 1:40am
Balance, Weights, and Numbers
This mod is going to take some time to get the balance right on. Please post your thoughts and experiences here, particularly how many breakthroughs have youve seen, and by what year. Ill take all this into account as I shift things around moving forward.

The Numbers
Below are some of the behind the scenes things that govern how breakthroughs appear, if you are like me and enjoy staring at numbers, keep reading its your lucky day. That said, the mod is probably more fun without minmaxing your chances too much.

First off, the base chance of a tech appearing comes from 3 main sources, Your empires ethics, traditions and perks. This is the settings file (subject to change):

#Base Factors
@research_philosophy = 2
@research_philosophy_max = 4
@philosophy_penalty = 1 #Research Philosophy decreases chances for breakthroughs in opposing fields
@ethic_boost = 4
@fanatic_ethic_boost = 10
@gestalt_boost = 2 #Universal boost since they have no specific ethics boosts
@tradition_boost = 6 #Applied once for Starting, and again for Finishing a tradition
@perk_boost = 10


#Multipliers
@scientist_genius = 1
@scientist_maniacal = 1
@scientist_inquisitive = 1
@scientist_specialist = 4 #increases 2 per additional level
@scientist_focus = 2 #increases 1 per additional level
@spynetwork_boost = 3 #spynetwork with any science asset in country with breakthrough
@research_agreement_boost = 2
@techAscendant_perk = 1

#Additive boosts (applied after multipliers)
@similar_boost = 5 #other breakthroughs in same category
@neighbor_boost = 10

@base_difficulty = 6000 #Chance of no breakthrough
@cumulative_penalty = 1.5 #multiplies base difficulty for each breakthrough known

#Breakthrough Chance is half the head researcher level + Base Factors, Multiplied by the sum of all Multipliers (minimum 1), Plus Additive Boosts

Research philosophy is the policy (so if you have one that gives +2 engineering and -1 soc/physics you will have a higher chance of engineering breakthroughs). Matching ascension perks or a fanatic ethic are the single biggest boosts (a tradition is also pretty big since you get it twice). All of the matching ethics/traditions/perks are listed in the situation log (once someone has the breakthrough). You can also reveal all the numerical chances in the situation log by putting "event TechAscendant.3" in the console

Those base factors get multiplied by by stats from the council and other empires. Each level of genius/maniacal/inquisitive increases the multiplier by 1. Levels of a matching specialization increases the multiplier by 4, and 2 for each additional level. A research agreement adds 2, and a spynetwork adds 3.

That total is divided by the difficulty (6000x1.5 per other breakthrough, + the total chance for every other breakthrough) It usually ends up a number between 0.2% and 4% if you have a lot of matching factors. You roll that everytime you increase in tech.

Example, lets say you are going for Grand Strategy Simulations. You are a Fanatic Militarist, have completed supremacy traditions, and have a level 6 head researcher with two levels of the military theory specialization, and another councilor has spark of genius. You enable a +2 society research policy to really boost your chances. You should get:

3 (half research level) +4 (philosophy) +10 (fanatic ethic) + 12 (start and finisher of tradition) = 29

Multiply that by 6 (Two levels of Specialization) + 1 (genius) = 7

29x7 = 203. Your divide that by the difficulty. If this is your first breakthrough, 6000. The chances of other breakthroughs will be added here too, which should be lower since they wont have as many matching factors, lets say the total chance of all other breakthroughs is 97 to make a round number

Final chance: 203/6300 = 3.3% chance per tech researched. That is high, you should get that reasonably quickly. Then of course future breakthroughs will will 1.5x more difficult, and you will need different perks/specializations/traditions to maximize your chances for those. Each vanilla ascension perk boosts exactly 1 breakthrough, and each breakthrough is boosted by 2 traditions and 1 ethic.
Last edited by starchitec; Jun 4, 2023 @ 8:42am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 69 comments
starchitec  [developer] Aug 5, 2018 @ 1:33pm 
Update: Changed the modifiers to below. Mostly made things slightly rarer. Also, the Hard cap for spawning breakthroughs (but not getting them through spread) has changed from 6 to 4.

@ethics_boost1 = 2 was (2.5)
@ethics_boost2 = 3 (3.5)
@ethics_boost3 = 3.5 (4)
@scientist_level = 1.5 (2)
@scientist_maniacal = 2 (2.5)
@scientist_genius = 2.5 (3)
@scientist_specialist = (4)
@tradition_boost = 2
@perk_boost = 3 (2.5)
@hiverobot_boost = 1.5 (2)
@hostile_neighbor = 5
@friendly_neighbor = 10
@specialization_penalty1 = 0.75 (.8)
@specialization_penalty2 = 0.7 (.75)
SpaceRice Aug 12, 2018 @ 3:56pm 
Do you happen to have numbers of the breakthrough spread chances? I want to know how fast it would take for a breakthrough to spread to you if you border a number of friendly empires.
starchitec  [developer] Aug 12, 2018 @ 4:09pm 
@SpaceRiceBowl Right now you get a 10x modifier to spread chance whether it is 1 friendly neighbor empire with the tech or 5. As for the chance, that depends on how many other above conditions you meet, and also what other techs you have in your pool. Early game you likely will have a lot of relatively high weight techs, so it will take a long time. The further into a game you get, the fewer other techs there are to pick, so the more likely you are to draw a breakthrough, even if it still has a low chance. Generally, if you have a friendly neighbor with a tech, I would expect it to show up within say 20 years. But its random, so it could be a lot less or a lot more, and ethics, traditions, and ascension perks will modify the chance.
devex3 Sep 1, 2018 @ 1:38am 
I keep getting every few months the 'Tactical Knowledge Lost' popup from a neighbouring Empire ... why is that happening? I feel it is not supposed to. Is this a known bug?
starchitec  [developer] Sep 1, 2018 @ 8:42am 
@devex3 That event comes from loosing neighbor status with an empire that has a breakthrough you dont, or they take the enigmatic engineering perk. I had a similar bug report when I first released the mod but I have fixed it since then. 1st, make sure the mod is updated, second try using the neighbors map mode to see if you can tell which empire is causing the change. I have seen some rare times in vanilla where a nation will sometimes randomly change whether it is a neighbor or not, invalidating rivalries and such. As far as I know its a vanilla bug. But if you settle or conquer a system or two from that country it seems to figure out you are really neighbors after all.
Than Tastic Sep 24, 2018 @ 6:56am 
Is there somewhere a list of the new technologies?
starchitec  [developer] Sep 24, 2018 @ 9:10am 
Engineering- Organic Silicon Processing, Living Starships, Nanofabrication, Inertialess Drive
Physics- Predictive Quantum Mechanics, Contained Singularity, Temporal Shielding
Society- The Final Frontier, Universal Translators, Genetic Recoding, Grand Strategy Simulations, Psychohistory
starchitec  [developer] Nov 8, 2018 @ 11:57am 
Specialization penalties have been creeping up in the last few updates as I test balance. Now, if you have researched all breakthroughs of a single field you are about 1/5th as likely to discover a breakthrough from a different field

@specialization_penalty1 = 0.65 (.75)
@specialization_penalty2 = 0.56 (.7)
Last edited by starchitec; Nov 8, 2018 @ 11:57am
starchitec  [developer] Dec 10, 2018 @ 3:30pm 
2.2 Weight modifiers

@ethics_boost1 = 2
@ethics_boost2 = 3
@ethics_boost3 = 3.5
@scientist_level = 1.5
@scientist_maniacal = 2
@scientist_genius = 2.5
@scientist_specialist = 4
@tradition_boost = 2
@perk_boost = 3
@hiverobot_boost = 1.5
@hostile_neighbor = 2
@friendly_neighbor = 8
@specialization_penalty1 = 0.5 (0.65)
@specialization_penalty2 = 0.4 (0.56)
@hiverobot_cumulative_penalty = 0.7 *new

*Hives and robots get a smaller cummulative penalty with each new breakthrough, they do not otherwise get the higher specialization penalties that only effect fields you do not have breakthroughs in.
starchitec  [developer] Dec 11, 2018 @ 7:56pm 
@specialization_penalty1 = 0.45 (0.5)
@specialization_penalty2 = 0.35 (0.4)
@hiverobot_cumulative_penalty = 0.55 (0.7)
starchitec  [developer] Dec 15, 2018 @ 7:10pm 
@perk_boost = 2 (3)
@cumulative_penalty = 0.85 (new)

Cumulative penalty applies for every breakthrough you take, regardless of field or specialization
I think there should be an AP or something for late game that gives you a random tech option for a breakthrough you don't have.
starchitec  [developer] Dec 20, 2018 @ 9:35pm 
Hmm. Yeah, I could see that. Up till now Ive been more worried about players getting too many breakthroughs than too few. But if the repeatables are really doing their job and there are quite a few breakthroughs you just wont get by the end of a playthrough because of the miniscule chance, an ascension perk might be a good idea
CrazyZombie Dec 22, 2018 @ 8:23am 
Question about balance: how can I get additional breakthroughs in case I play as non-diplomatic empire? i know, it is not the most science-focused build, but is there any opportunity for reverse-engineering such tech in a war (conquered planets and such)?

starchitec  [developer] Dec 22, 2018 @ 9:52am 
Not reverse engineering, that would make it far too easy to get them. You do get a slightly increased chance simply from being adjacent to an empire with a breakthrough, even if they hate you, this is to represent spying and such. And last, using a level 5 scientist who specializes in a field want a breakthrough in is one of the largest single modifiers you can get to chance
< >
Showing 1-15 of 69 comments
Per page: 1530 50