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STAR WARS™ Empire at War: Gold Pack >  Workshop > Corey Loses's Workshop > EaWX: Thrawn's Revenge 3.4 (Updated April 2nd) > Discussions
EaWX: Thrawn's Revenge 3.4 (Updated April 2nd)
Description Discussions1593 Comments13600 Change Notes
Autumn.exe Aug 29, 2023 @ 9:21am
Please make factories stop spawning infinite enemies [Solved]
This is just dumb. I love this mod, it's done wonderfully. But you took a mechanic that was already a little annoying in the vanilla version. And made it much worse.

Let me explain, in galactic conquests. There are two stages to capturing most systems, defeating the forces in space. Then landing your army to conquer the planet, the space battles are lovely. The ground battles, in my opinion. Were never great, mostly due to linear paths and pathfinding of AI that modders can't really control. Though, if the defender has built factories that build units on the planet, in-case of a ground invasion. They will continuously, infinitely. Spawn units to their factory type, barracks spawn infantry, heavy factories make tanks, so on.

Question is, why? The attacker is limited to whatever they brought with them, so should the defender, the defender should be limited to whatever is on the planet.

My most recent example, I invade the Zinj in a ground war, because the planet has a vital cloning facility that would allow me to make troops easier. The attacker has a unit cap they can increase with each capture point they take on the planet, starting with 5. I land my 5 units, take a few steps. I encounter a few enemy troops and vehicles, I kill them. More come, I kill them. I have to make my gunship retreat because there's a sudden influx of anti-air vehicles that were not labeled on the planet

More come, more, more, more, more... I'm being pinned down in my spawn-point, most of my tanks and walkers are dead, holding out with some infantry, a Sith, and a mobile turbolaser. Then they just keep spawning, so many tanks, so much infantry. Where are they coming from? I blockaded the planet, and the last time I checked. The only thing on the planet was some infrastructure and two infantry platoons. They keep coming, and coming. Until my patience runs out, I auto-resolve, lose, and ragequit.

I just ask, why. There were factories of all kinds on that planet, producing a couple of units like the vanilla version is fine. But spawning infinite units with no cost, no cooldown for the defender to use? While the attacker has a unit cap and can only bring what they brought with them?

Please, this makes no sense and is infuriating. Make factories have at least a small cap on units they produce during a ground battle.
Last edited by Autumn.exe; Aug 30, 2023 @ 10:47am
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Showing 1-15 of 22 comments
Comander-07 Aug 29, 2023 @ 1:43pm 
the ground battles are actually far superior because they have more depth, more options and the AI cant be cheesed as easily. Its way harder to prevent losses than in space and since players are used to not taking casualties they dislike ground.

You as the attacker have infinite reserves to draw from, giving you a huge advantage. In reality defenders always hold the advantage, something the game barely represents. Factories giving garrisons means defenders actually stand a chance without having to stack each planet with an army.

Also afaik only the barracks apawn infinite units and a hand full of infantry is not a huge issue.
#1
IExecutor  [developer] Aug 29, 2023 @ 3:28pm 
None of factories has infinite spawns, just barracks, for basic infantry, that's it
#2
Autumn.exe Aug 29, 2023 @ 4:55pm 
Either this is a new update, or neither have you have actually played in a while. Infinite reserves? Read the post, and all factories produce units. The planet I'm invading has two barracks, a heavy factory and a light factory, aside from a single army platoon. How else do you explain infinite waves of enemies that consist of walkers and repulser vehicles? Losses are a natural part of this game and I'm used to that, however. I don't like losing an entire army because of cheese.
#3
SNLdreamcast Aug 29, 2023 @ 5:50pm 
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
I just ask, why. There were factories of all kinds on that planet, producing a couple of units like the vanilla version is fine. But spawning infinite units with no cost, no cooldown for the defender to use? While the attacker has a unit cap and can only bring what they brought with them?

Please, this makes no sense and is infuriating. Make factories have at least a small cap on units they produce during a ground battle.

As 765 said, there are no factories in the mod that produce infinite garrisons besides barracks. It seems that factories in the new update generally produce more garrison units than before, probably to prevent snowballing in conjunction with the new infrastructure system, but nothing besides basic infantry is unlimited for the defender.

That said, the AI is typically pretty aggressive about grabbing reinforcement points for field bases which can contribute a pretty decent number of infantry themselves, so that could be part of what you're experiencing. Tough to give more of an opinion with screenshots or a video.
#4
Autumn.exe Aug 29, 2023 @ 6:10pm 
Originally posted by SNLdreamcast:
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
I just ask, why. There were factories of all kinds on that planet, producing a couple of units like the vanilla version is fine. But spawning infinite units with no cost, no cooldown for the defender to use? While the attacker has a unit cap and can only bring what they brought with them?

Please, this makes no sense and is infuriating. Make factories have at least a small cap on units they produce during a ground battle.

As 765 said, there are no factories in the mod that produce infinite garrisons besides barracks. It seems that factories in the new update generally produce more garrison units than before, probably to prevent snowballing in conjunction with the new infrastructure system, but nothing besides basic infantry is unlimited for the defender.

That said, the AI is typically pretty aggressive about grabbing reinforcement points for field bases which can contribute a pretty decent number of infantry themselves, so that could be part of what you're experiencing. Tough to give more of an opinion with screenshots or a video.

Is that true..? I'm sorry for my outburst, I just came home from woodworking in 90 degree F heat. I'll explain it in further detail, I don't have a recording software and I don't know if screenshots will be sufficient.

I'm playing as the Pentastar Alignment, I'm a bit new to the mod so I easily forget names. Bear with me, I'm beginning the conquest and I conquer a couple planets, the next planet I'm after has a cloning facility so I'll be able to build infantry better. After the space battle, I'm faced off against an infantry platoon, 2 barracks and a couple factories. Then the palace, this is the Zinj Empire by the way.

I land Jereces, a repulser lifted turbolaser gun, walkers, TIE Maulers, and infantry. The battle starts quickly with both of the other reinforcement points captured by the AI, and before I can organize the army, I'm approached by a few tanks and infantry. I fight off against them but my walkers and maulers fall quickly to their lasers. But I kill them, I can't call in more since there were still a couple left, I start moving towards the base, a few steps. I'm met again with more tanks and more infantry. I defeat them, but my vehicles are in shambles, the only thing remaining. My mobile turbolaser tower and Jereces, yet they keep coming. And coming, if this is not the case, I'm confused.

Where did the tanks come from, they didn't show in the defender's garrison. This is the second time I invaded the planet, the first time I lasted much longer, the story in the OP. It may not be infinite, but how many do the factories produce?
#5
Lahgtah Aug 29, 2023 @ 6:33pm 
Originally posted by Comander-07:
the ground battles are actually far superior because they have more depth, more options and the AI cant be cheesed as easily. Its way harder to prevent losses than in space and since players are used to not taking casualties they dislike ground.

You as the attacker have infinite reserves to draw from, giving you a huge advantage. In reality defenders always hold the advantage, something the game barely represents. Factories giving garrisons means defenders actually stand a chance without having to stack each planet with an army.

Also afaik only the barracks apawn infinite units and a hand full of infantry is not a huge issue.

It's not hard to be far superior than a dog turd, to be fair. While EAWx does improve ground battles, particularly in map design, they still feel terrible as far as most RTS goes. Even the best tactics can't survive units deliberately refusing to go where you tell them to. The only RTS I've played with worse ground unit movement behavior is Halo Wars. A big part of the reason is the lack of formation and stance control. You can't force units into a formation, neither can you force them to all move at the same pace. Try to place infantry behind heavy tanks, select all and move, and the infantry will run past the heavy tanks and get slaughtered. This is simply not the game to play for star wars ground battles; for that, you play Galactic Battlegrounds with the Expanding Fronts mod.



Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
Originally posted by SNLdreamcast:

As 765 said, there are no factories in the mod that produce infinite garrisons besides barracks. It seems that factories in the new update generally produce more garrison units than before, probably to prevent snowballing in conjunction with the new infrastructure system, but nothing besides basic infantry is unlimited for the defender.

That said, the AI is typically pretty aggressive about grabbing reinforcement points for field bases which can contribute a pretty decent number of infantry themselves, so that could be part of what you're experiencing. Tough to give more of an opinion with screenshots or a video.

Is that true..? I'm sorry for my outburst, I just came home from woodworking in 90 degree F heat. I'll explain it in further detail, I don't have a recording software and I don't know if screenshots will be sufficient.

I'm playing as the Pentastar Alignment, I'm a bit new to the mod so I easily forget names. Bear with me, I'm beginning the conquest and I conquer a couple planets, the next planet I'm after has a cloning facility so I'll be able to build infantry better. After the space battle, I'm faced off against an infantry platoon, 2 barracks and a couple factories. Then the palace, this is the Zinj Empire by the way.

I land Jereces, a repulser lifted turbolaser gun, walkers, TIE Maulers, and infantry. The battle starts quickly with both of the other reinforcement points captured by the AI, and before I can organize the army, I'm approached by a few tanks and infantry. I fight off against them but my walkers and maulers fall quickly to their lasers. But I kill them, I can't call in more since there were still a couple left, I start moving towards the base, a few steps. I'm met again with more tanks and more infantry. I defeat them, but my vehicles are in shambles, the only thing remaining. My mobile turbolaser tower and Jereces, yet they keep coming. And coming, if this is not the case, I'm confused.

Where did the tanks come from, they didn't show in the defender's garrison. This is the second time I invaded the planet, the first time I lasted much longer, the story in the OP. It may not be infinite, but how many do the factories produce?

PA is a noob trap. It's listed as "easy" yet it's probably one of the harder factions to play now after changes to their starting worlds and units; the only thing that made them "easy" before was a much more defensible starting position and a free SSD on top of some other good heroes at week 20, but those have been nerfed in 3.3. They're a carrier faction, but carriers are expensive. Likewise, they lack a good battlecruiser to tank hits. The Praetor 2C is terrible for its population cost - never worth building, as 2 secutors are better in every way conceivable.

On the ground, their infantry are hot garbage outside of their field base special infantry, but those take forever to spawn. Basically ground battles as PA is spamming nemesis gunships and abusing their fast firing artillery, maybe a couple C-10's just to be a big distraction. Use inQueastors or Jerec as a first spawn to quickly capture early on while landing in 4 gunships, then go from there.

IMO, the easiest faction to play right now is Eriadu. Their ground roster is very strong, excellent use of tanks and AT-AT's, and their space roster is easy to manage. It's a bit expensive, but they're surrounded by high-income and good trade port worlds right off the start.
#6
Autumn.exe Aug 29, 2023 @ 7:06pm 
Originally posted by Lahgtah:
Originally posted by Comander-07:
the ground battles are actually far superior because they have more depth, more options and the AI cant be cheesed as easily. Its way harder to prevent losses than in space and since players are used to not taking casualties they dislike ground.

You as the attacker have infinite reserves to draw from, giving you a huge advantage. In reality defenders always hold the advantage, something the game barely represents. Factories giving garrisons means defenders actually stand a chance without having to stack each planet with an army.

Also afaik only the barracks apawn infinite units and a hand full of infantry is not a huge issue.

It's not hard to be far superior than a dog turd, to be fair. While EAWx does improve ground battles, particularly in map design, they still feel terrible as far as most RTS goes. Even the best tactics can't survive units deliberately refusing to go where you tell them to. The only RTS I've played with worse ground unit movement behavior is Halo Wars. A big part of the reason is the lack of formation and stance control. You can't force units into a formation, neither can you force them to all move at the same pace. Try to place infantry behind heavy tanks, select all and move, and the infantry will run past the heavy tanks and get slaughtered. This is simply not the game to play for star wars ground battles; for that, you play Galactic Battlegrounds with the Expanding Fronts mod.



Originally posted by Sakura.exe:

Is that true..? I'm sorry for my outburst, I just came home from woodworking in 90 degree F heat. I'll explain it in further detail, I don't have a recording software and I don't know if screenshots will be sufficient.

I'm playing as the Pentastar Alignment, I'm a bit new to the mod so I easily forget names. Bear with me, I'm beginning the conquest and I conquer a couple planets, the next planet I'm after has a cloning facility so I'll be able to build infantry better. After the space battle, I'm faced off against an infantry platoon, 2 barracks and a couple factories. Then the palace, this is the Zinj Empire by the way.

I land Jereces, a repulser lifted turbolaser gun, walkers, TIE Maulers, and infantry. The battle starts quickly with both of the other reinforcement points captured by the AI, and before I can organize the army, I'm approached by a few tanks and infantry. I fight off against them but my walkers and maulers fall quickly to their lasers. But I kill them, I can't call in more since there were still a couple left, I start moving towards the base, a few steps. I'm met again with more tanks and more infantry. I defeat them, but my vehicles are in shambles, the only thing remaining. My mobile turbolaser tower and Jereces, yet they keep coming. And coming, if this is not the case, I'm confused.

Where did the tanks come from, they didn't show in the defender's garrison. This is the second time I invaded the planet, the first time I lasted much longer, the story in the OP. It may not be infinite, but how many do the factories produce?

PA is a noob trap. It's listed as "easy" yet it's probably one of the harder factions to play now after changes to their starting worlds and units; the only thing that made them "easy" before was a much more defensible starting position and a free SSD on top of some other good heroes at week 20, but those have been nerfed in 3.3. They're a carrier faction, but carriers are expensive. Likewise, they lack a good battlecruiser to tank hits. The Praetor 2C is terrible for its population cost - never worth building, as 2 secutors are better in every way conceivable.

On the ground, their infantry are hot garbage outside of their field base special infantry, but those take forever to spawn. Basically ground battles as PA is spamming nemesis gunships and abusing their fast firing artillery, maybe a couple C-10's just to be a big distraction. Use inQueastors or Jerec as a first spawn to quickly capture early on while landing in 4 gunships, then go from there.

IMO, the easiest faction to play right now is Eriadu. Their ground roster is very strong, excellent use of tanks and AT-AT's, and their space roster is easy to manage. It's a bit expensive, but they're surrounded by high-income and good trade port worlds right off the start.

You're not the first to say it's a noob trap, it's a shame. Really, I love their doctrine. I love carriers and defense focused units. But their ground units are so squishy and terrible maybe that's why a few factories was too much, thanks for telling me. I'll try Eriadu, I know nothing about them but I've heard good things.
#7
IExecutor  [developer] Aug 29, 2023 @ 10:33pm 
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
Either this is a new update, or neither have you have actually played in a while. Infinite reserves? Read the post, and all factories produce units. The planet I'm invading has two barracks, a heavy factory and a light factory, aside from a single army platoon. How else do you explain infinite waves of enemies that consist of walkers and repulser vehicles? Losses are a natural part of this game and I'm used to that, however. I don't like losing an entire army because of cheese.

okay, it's not new thing, I'm actually one of devs, and I'm playing mods, not too much, but still
Structures produce garrisons, yes, but again, they 're limited, there's almost none infinite garrisons in whole mod
#8
IExecutor  [developer] Aug 29, 2023 @ 10:36pm 
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
Where did the tanks come from, they didn't show in the defender's garrison. This is the second time I invaded the planet, the first time I lasted much longer, the story in the OP. It may not be infinite, but how many do the factories produce?

Tooltip will say how many units it will/can produce
Last edited by IExecutor; Aug 29, 2023 @ 10:37pm
#9
Autumn.exe Aug 30, 2023 @ 9:58am 
Originally posted by Nemesis1st:
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
Either this is a new update, or neither have you have actually played in a while. Infinite reserves? Read the post, and all factories produce units. The planet I'm invading has two barracks, a heavy factory and a light factory, aside from a single army platoon. How else do you explain infinite waves of enemies that consist of walkers and repulser vehicles? Losses are a natural part of this game and I'm used to that, however. I don't like losing an entire army because of cheese.

okay, it's not new thing, I'm actually one of devs, and I'm playing mods, not too much, but still
Structures produce garrisons, yes, but again, they 're limited, there's almost none infinite garrisons in whole mod

My apologies, I say with confidence that there was a lot of units to face when there was nothing on the planet, however. I may be crazy. It's hard to tell a dev that they know nothing about the mod, I'll check the tooltips.

Again, that blowup was unjustified. I'm sorry for being rude, you do great work with this mod.
#10
Autumn.exe Aug 30, 2023 @ 10:14am 
Speaking of which... How do I enable tooltips?

Edit: Disregard, I'm a little blind.
Last edited by Autumn.exe; Aug 30, 2023 @ 10:29am
#11
Autumn.exe Aug 30, 2023 @ 10:54am 
I'm making this last reply to say I'm dumb, I think I know what happened.

The AI 'instantly capturing reinforcement points' are the bunkers that the AI has during an invasion. Which I think spawn units? Eventually, yes. The factories stopped spawning enemies and the planet of Wayland is mine. Losing only a C-10 Siege Tower (because it refused to retreat when I told it to, funny pathfinding) and two army platoons.

You live and learn...
#12
Lahgtah Aug 30, 2023 @ 11:31am 
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
You're not the first to say it's a noob trap, it's a shame. Really, I love their doctrine. I love carriers and defense focused units. But their ground units are so squishy and terrible maybe that's why a few factories was too much, thanks for telling me. I'll try Eriadu, I know nothing about them but I've heard good things.

PA's ground units aren't terrible, just their infantry. C-10's are good tank/defense units, their artillery fires at twice the rate of most other artillery, and their nemesis gunships are probably the best air units, tied with the CSA's heavy fighter things.

Eriadu is very top-heavy in their ground roster. Lots of emphasis on AT-AT's and 1-H or 1-M tanks. They also have lancet air units which are good long-range anti-vehicle snipers. Infantry-wise, they're a bit better, with their main infantry also coming with a vehicle repair unit, and being better equipped for anti-vehicle. If you're lucky to get storm commandos as an integration, you're gonna be in for a great time, as storm commandos all have vehicle repair auras.

With either faction, you're gonna want to integrate the empire as soon as you can, as stormtroopers are tied with NR defense troopers in terms of being the best general infantry.

In space, Eriadu is a battleship faction. All about battlecruisers, like Allegiance and Praetors, having a torpedo sphere in their roster which absolutely destroys shields on other vessels. Their weakness is that they don't have many fighters or bombers to field, and their anti-fighter point defense corvette kinda sucks until a later era when they get the IPV/4.

They start near the NR, but have about 4-5 ISD heroes, with which you can easily take out the nearby NR and hugely boom your economy. They're surrounded by very high income worlds, especially good trade worlds linked by 4, 5, or even 6 lanes. In my recent playthrough with them, I had an executor, assertor, and bellator before I even started touching the core worlds.

The assertor is like an executor, but a bit more practical. It's not as tanky shield-wise, but offensively it's much better geared towards taking out capital ships and space stations. Also has better firing arcs, being wider. Bellator is more like a slightly upgraded Praetor 2 rather than a full on SSD.
#13
SNLdreamcast Aug 30, 2023 @ 3:28pm 
Originally posted by Sakura.exe:
Originally posted by Nemesis1st:

okay, it's not new thing, I'm actually one of devs, and I'm playing mods, not too much, but still
Structures produce garrisons, yes, but again, they 're limited, there's almost none infinite garrisons in whole mod

My apologies, I say with confidence that there was a lot of units to face when there was nothing on the planet, however. I may be crazy. It's hard to tell a dev that they know nothing about the mod, I'll check the tooltips.

Again, that blowup was unjustified. I'm sorry for being rude, you do great work with this mod.

Glad we sorted it out, and thank you for cooling off and apologizing!
Last edited by SNLdreamcast; Aug 30, 2023 @ 3:28pm
#14
Autumn.exe Aug 31, 2023 @ 8:24am 
Last! Update, but I figured it out.

Moff Palaces spawn units, a lot of them, alongside factories. That explains a lot.

It may be a noob trap, but I'm making PA work, I'm getting used to their ground units. If I use them correctly, they're not half bad at all. I'm steamrolling The Empire with my latest fleet, a Secutor anchoring it. It's hard to rebuild an army with 600 credits per-cycle (that fleet made a lot of upkeep costs) but I'm managing.

Mod is fun, PA is fun, I like the shooty-shooties in space.
#15
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