STAR WARS™ Empire at War: Gold Pack

STAR WARS™ Empire at War: Gold Pack

EaWX: Thrawn's Revenge 3.4 (Updated April 2nd)
Mr. Calcium Dec 25, 2019 @ 3:38pm
Novatroopers
Apparently Novatroopers are supposed to be available to the imperial remnant, but I can't seem to find them. Anyone know anything about this?
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Ordo Dec 25, 2019 @ 4:08pm 
Novatroopers have been removed for now
Mr. Calcium Dec 25, 2019 @ 4:48pm 
Are they going to be brought back?/Was any reason given?
Ordo Dec 26, 2019 @ 1:44am 
Will see, they were just stormtroopers with black armour.
Mr. Calcium Dec 26, 2019 @ 8:52am 
I thought they had better stats, would be useful as Shocktroopers to lead assaults, better than normal STs, not as effective as light vehicles
chrisma Jan 1, 2020 @ 12:56pm 
"(...) they were just stormtroopers with black armour."
No, they weren't. They had different statistics, were limited in numbers and were a hallmark of the Remnant faction, removing a unit or feature without replacing it with something similar to look forward to in a campaign is quite annoying (e.g. 'Imperial specialists').
What's next ? Stripping battles, because they are 'unfair' towards the AI ? (a polemical exaggeration, I hope)
Last edited by chrisma; Jan 1, 2020 @ 12:57pm
Ordo Jan 1, 2020 @ 4:10pm 
I'm talking about their ingame status, not lore background.
Mr. Calcium Jan 1, 2020 @ 6:46pm 
I think there was a use for them as a heavy infantry shock unit, backed up by stormtroopers, but I dunno, its up to them, I do hope they bring them back for the Remnant, even if its for certain eras.
chrisma Jan 1, 2020 @ 11:33pm 
"I'm talking about their ingame status"

If You would have checked the game files Yourself, You wouldn't bother to 'white knight' flawed decission making with flawed facts.
The files still show the original values, except for 'damage' statistics which apparently have been 'buffed' for 'Stormtroopers' from (<Damage>9</Damage> as it is still the value of medium squads, deployed by AT-ATs, I think) to the elite unit level of 'Novatroopers' (<Damage>18</Damage>) ...without 'buffing' their health.

Only a moron who doesn't know how to use 'I think', 'I believe' or 'if I'm not mistaken' would make the statement "(...) they were just stormtroopers with black armour."...


NOVATROOPER

-<GroundInfantry Name="Novatrooper">

<Variant_Of_Existing_Type>Stormtrooper</Variant_Of_Existing_Type>

(...)

<Tactical_Health>13</Tactical_Health>

-<GroundCompany Name="Imperial_Novatrooper_Squad">

(...)

<Damage>18</Damage>

(...)

<Build_Cost_Credits>150</Build_Cost_Credits>


STORMTROOPER

-<GroundInfantry Name="Stormtrooper">
(...)
<Tactical_Health>8</Tactical_Health>

-<GroundCompany Name="Imperial_Stormtrooper_Squad">

(...)

<Damage>18</Damage>

(...)

<Build_Cost_Credits>110</Build_Cost_Credits>

Last edited by chrisma; Jan 2, 2020 @ 12:10am
Ordo Jan 2, 2020 @ 2:04am 
I don't see how any of that challenges the fact that for ingame purposes they are essentially just black stormtroopers, but sure call people morons, that will definitely get you places.
chrisma Jan 2, 2020 @ 2:54am 
"I don't see how any of that challenges (...)"

That means that You are either blind or a moron, since You have nothing to say on the given evidence within the XML code.

"(...) sure call people morons, that will definitely get you places."

Not everyone needs to get places, some can openly call out things for what they are.
Being a moron isn't a matter of morals, it is not Your doing, it just explains why I and Mr. Bones and everyone who wondered why faction units suddenly became less diverse, disagrees with Your statement.
chrisma Jan 3, 2020 @ 4:47am 
@ Mr Bones:

I edited the respective entries in

'GroundCompaniesEmpire.xml' (harddrive:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\32470\1125571106\Data\XML\ICW)

and changed the tech level of 'Novatroopers' back to '1' from '99' (I set the 'E-web' blaster cannon for immediate recruitment and 'resurrected' the 'Imperial Specialists', I'd never seen in-game, despite the tech-tree pointing to them for years, the same way).
When playing, You will now realize that without any 'plex-soldier' squads within the 'Novatropper' company, You won't use them in battle anymore, since they can't fight vehicles, turrets and aircrafts (as all non-plex infantry in 'Vanilla') as effectively as the recently 'buffed' 'Stormtrooper' companies.

What 'Ordo' could have replied is:
(...) that due to the beginning rework of ground battles, 'Stormtroopers' have been 'buffed' beyond the degree of 'Novatroppers', turning the latter redundant for now (except parading on 'Coruscant' or 'Byss' for glossy propaganda screenshots...).

I do support the integration of 'plex-soldier' squads into infantry companies as it gives the limited population cap during the initial phases of invasions more depth .

Lorewise, however, I feel that 'Stormtroopers' are now effectively 'Shocktroopers', sporting heavy equipment, and should replace the former 'plex-soldier' roster slot that still shows in the in-game tech-tree as 'Shock Soldiers' (including a limitation in the number of recruitable squads to increase their value to the player) - and finally be given a flamboyant 'Shocktrooper' texture and icon. They could receive twice the plex-soldier squads they have now (possibly even an 'E-web' squad and some sort of 'Flametrooper' or 'Magmatrooper' squad - 'buffing' their anti-infantry capabilities with already existent in-game features), turning them de-facto into another 'minor hero' for the 'Imperial Remnants' (for balancing: if e.g. a 5 squads army can't be countered by vehicles anymore then their recruitment limits should be as low as three or two - as raising their population cap wouldn't prevent players from stacking planets with them).

Anyway, that the 'Imperial Remnant' faction can still mass recruit unlimited 'Stormtroopers' during a civil war doesn't look immersive to me. There's a thread about that as well...
Last edited by chrisma; Jan 15, 2020 @ 9:09pm
Mr. Calcium Jan 3, 2020 @ 9:30am 
I sometimes just personally replace the stormtrooper units with army troopers for the extra difficulty, seeing as army troops were just conscripted from subject populations, which is more inline with the imperial remnant, though I also heard the remnant and other warlords simply gave army troopers stormtrooper armor, which could be an explanation for the ability to mass recruit "Stormtroopers"
Last edited by Mr. Calcium; Jan 3, 2020 @ 9:30am
chrisma Jan 3, 2020 @ 2:37pm 
Originally posted by Mr. Bones:
I sometimes just personally replace the stormtrooper units with army troopers for the extra difficulty, seeing as army troops were just conscripted from subject populations, which is more inline with the imperial remnant, though I also heard the remnant and other warlords simply gave army troopers stormtrooper armor, which could be an explanation for the ability to mass recruit "Stormtroopers"

I don't think of myself as well versed in lore beyond the screen and some 'Wookiepedia' (e.g. reading novelizations or comics), but I feel immersed when lore adds up by taking inspirations from real life.

The longer wars last, the worse the quality of equipment (e.g. stamping sheet metal instead of milling) and personnel (recruits, either too young or too old for military service) gets and this should be reflected in a story on war.

'Star Wars' lore is inconclusive in general to me, the Galactic Empire is supposed to impose a totalitarian threat, yet 'Stormtroopers' are as effective as child-soldiers without any training given (which after Sun Tzu is like 'throwing them away' in a battle).
In the 'Clone Wars' the sole purpose of military conflict was to grant Senator Palpatine dictatorial powers, both sides of the conflict were orchestrated by the same person, so the shifting of frontlines was not a contest of fighting troops (e.g. at the 'Battle of Geonosis'). The galactic civil war however, appears to be existential to keep Palpatine and his policy of a 'New Order' in power against an experienced military opposition, so 'Stormtroopers' should be well fed and excercised, rather representing an elite force, Emperor Palpatine refers to as his 'legions' (all references to historical Rome). But that's not how they are remembered from the movies or video games - which completely breaks immersion (like invading a country that doesn't have a proper airforce as if it were involved in 'rocket science').
To limit the numbers of 'Stormtroopers' (as in the 'Mandalorian') makes them appear to be more in demand - to mass clone them on 'Wayland' on the other hand gives their cheap 'quantities a quality of it's own' (simply autoresolving land battles with stacks). The latter however, feels unrealistic - like conjuring mechanical devices or spaceships without limits (like the ancient 'Rakata Starforge' of the 'Old Republic') - but maybe that's what the 'Dark Empire' is supposed to stand for ?

In regard to game design, I think one needs to follow either one doctrine or the other, the 'Imperial Remnants' e.g. should be either elitists with superior material in limited supply or portraying a 'levee en masse', 'zerging' the galaxy with primitive conscripts. If the roster reflects the respective doctrine in detail then it is good game design to me.

For this mod, I may limit their recruitment to urban centers like Coruscant (as in the 'Old Republic' ?) to actually feel impressed when they disembark a shuttle...

('501st' by Lucas King)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NA-hl37C6M
Mr. Calcium Jan 3, 2020 @ 3:05pm 
I do know that the reason the stormtroopers seemed so inept on the death star is because they were expressly ordered to let the rebels escape, so the death star could find the rebel base and destroy it, I think the actual skill level of most stormtroopers is shown when they board the Tantive IV, taking few casualties.
chrisma Jan 3, 2020 @ 4:06pm 
"the actual skill level of most stormtroopers is shown when they board the Tantive IV, taking few casualties"

I've seen a video, analysing the scene by counting laser bolts fired... but I'm convinced that to George Lucas this 'doesn't look like anything'...

Historically, there is a tendency to idealize beaten opponents to make oneself look more heroic - but that doesn't make sense when telling a fictional story on war (e.g. reflecting on how propaganda distorts reality, not creating propaganda as if the fictional adversaries exist... although some seem to believe the franchise to be a form of social activism...).

(skillful editing by the 'Auralnauts')
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU_Jdts5rL0&t=2m38s

In games there needs to be a challenge, therefore I tend to want 'Stormtroopers' to be awe-inspiring - which works best with obscure variants like 'Blackhole Stormtroopers' (or 'Shadow Troopers' in 'Force Unleashed' and the 'Battlefront' games). I figure, it would be easy to implement them into the mod, but their stealth ability would make 'Noghri assassins' redundant (unless both would be limited in numbers, forcing the player to conserve them).

With all that said, I quite miss the gameplay depth of 'Rebellion' and it's 'mission' system (granting named characters experience and traits)...

(en francais, s'il vous plait...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aUbyP5J5zc
Last edited by chrisma; Jan 3, 2020 @ 6:24pm
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