$10K? $100K? $500K? $1M? It's the data we want.

Direct is not bad, greenlight was not bad. its the crack down on keys,coopins, and algorithm changes that was the lose for indies. Most of us can't see that.

If Steam no give you traffic, you no get sales, unless you drive own traffic, then steam give you traffic to get 10k in two weeks. ( snowball )

Originally posted by Progorion:

You answer no questions on the forums, you do not communicate with us only when you just really have to because a post on Reddit or Twitter is just too big. Then you say an excuse or a copy-paste something and leave us alone yet again until the next potential scandal.

Every single time I have ever sent an email to Valve/Steam support they have replied promptly and effectively. I dont start threads and forum discussions to get things done, Thats not effective in here. I just politely send an email to Valve and its handled. Every time. No questions from them if it is within the rules. How can you say they dont talk to us? That is simply not true. They cant answer every single post on every single thread. Thats unrealistic.

The glory days of "just getting on Steam and them sending you customers" are long gone thats all there is to it.

The ONLY thing you should EXPECT from Valve/steam is an APP ID #. The rest is up to you. You should only be looking for valve for Distribution..... Not marketing. Thats your job. The %30 percent is the cost of being on the easiest, most robust, adaptable digital distribution system ON THE PLANET.

Just my $0.02

Originally posted by Nevin:

Direct is not bad, greenlight was not bad. its the crack down on keys,coopins, and algorithm changes that was the lose for indies. Most of us can't see that.

If Steam no give you traffic, you no get sales, unless you drive own traffic, then steam give you traffic to get 10k in two weeks. ( snowball )

If your not willing to drive traffic to your own game... Then why should Steam? They are a partner. Not a rich Uncle for giving impressions.

They are looking to make a profit. So they push games that have pushed themselves. If you were Steam....who would you invest your money and time into? A company that doesnt do any of their own marketing or a company that has set up all the channels of community and marketing?

Originally posted by devotid:

Originally posted by Nevin:

Direct is not bad, greenlight was not bad. its the crack down on keys,coopins, and algorithm changes that was the lose for indies. Most of us can't see that.

If Steam no give you traffic, you no get sales, unless you drive own traffic, then steam give you traffic to get 10k in two weeks. ( snowball )

If your not willing to drive traffic to your own game... Then why should Steam? They are a partner. Not a rich Uncle for giving impressions.

They are looking to make a profit. So they push games that have pushed themselves. If you were Steam....who would you invest your money and time into? A company that doesnt do any of their own marketing or a company that has set up all the channels of community and marketing?

For marketing needs sales tracking.
Steam could also allow curators to resell games for a certain percentage.

Very interesting, thank you Steam team.

Originally posted by GraphXGames:

Originally posted by devotid:

If your not willing to drive traffic to your own game... Then why should Steam? They are a partner. Not a rich Uncle for giving impressions.

They are looking to make a profit. So they push games that have pushed themselves. If you were Steam....who would you invest your money and time into? A company that doesnt do any of their own marketing or a company that has set up all the channels of community and marketing?

For marketing needs sales tracking.
Steam could also allow curators to resell games for a certain percentage.

Thats a really good idea. Give a little to wet their beak for all their hard work. It would be cool to go into nicely curated stores with certain themes.

The data shown here is great... but, it could be better.

You should do a survey for each game that devs can opt in to. $20k can be great, if I spent a few months working on the title. However, if it took a few years, I would consider that devastating! '^^

"Steam could also allow curators to resell games for a certain percentage." <- THIS!!!

Originally posted by devotid:

Originally posted by Progorion:

You answer no questions on the forums, you do not communicate with us only when you just really have to because a post on Reddit or Twitter is just too big. Then you say an excuse or a copy-paste something and leave us alone yet again until the next potential scandal.

Every single time I have ever sent an email to Valve/Steam support they have replied promptly and effectively. I dont start threads and forum discussions to get things done, Thats not effective in here. I just politely send an email to Valve and its handled. Every time. No questions from them if it is within the rules. How can you say they dont talk to us? That is simply not true. They cant answer every single post on every single thread. Thats unrealistic.

The glory days of "just getting on Steam and them sending you customers" are long gone thats all there is to it.

The ONLY thing you should EXPECT from Valve/steam is an APP ID #. The rest is up to you. You should only be looking for valve for Distribution..... Not marketing. Thats your job. The %30 percent is the cost of being on the easiest, most robust, adaptable digital distribution system ON THE PLANET.

Just my $0.02

Sorry, but what I wrote is "simply true". We have sent them (developers following bigger threads about problems I mentioned) tickets several times and we got back the same copy-paste answers telling nothing WHEN we actually got an answer in a few weeks - this after announcing something and doing the exact opposite - cutting back traffic with huge percents.

I do market my game. You know nothing about my efforts just make assumptions while simply deny my argument.

BTW it is an open secret, that one rarely can make a financially successful game IF the steam algorithms are not picking up its title. And you making a homepage and even putting into your release a lot of money or getting coverage on youtube etc. are unfortunately NOT a guarantee for that. If now you come saying that "oh I had success" it also won't prove it otherwise, sorry.

Kickstarters are a very good way to give an initial push, but it is not available from many countries and the alternatives are unusable. Back in the day the Greenlight system at least gave eyeballs to your project, but we have lost that, too.

"The glory days of "just getting on Steam and them sending you customers" are long gone thats all there is to it."

True. But their "research" kind of tries to sell the opposite. Why is that true? Because what I wrote in my previous post.

"The ONLY thing you should EXPECT from Valve/steam is an APP ID #. The rest is up to you. "

Sure then how is their 30% cut justified? That's what I was talking about.

Just my $0.02

Originally posted by devotid:

Originally posted by GraphXGames:

For marketing needs sales tracking.
Steam could also allow curators to resell games for a certain percentage.

Thats a really good idea. Give a little to wet their beak for all their hard work. It would be cool to go into nicely curated stores with certain themes.

On humble that's the case. Creators have links to use and get 5% of the price. The problem is that those sales do not move the algorithms of steam.

Not having a simple Facebook pixel on steam is also a huge problem (I've tried to do it via itch.io which works tho). But still putting marketing money into that is not working, because itch sales won't affect the algorithms on steam. Also, to do that you need a high enough price tag on your game which is unlikely with small indie games.

But it is a long topic and I'm not interested in talking about it here that much. I stand by my earlier post.

Hello, First, I Introduce my self,
I am solo developer, started to make games since 3 years ago,
and I'm middle-aged and have enjoyed playing games since 1987 using my Apple II+ 8bit computer,
and I'm not good at English, pardon me.

I think here is many Indie game developers, I read all of this discussions.
If my thinking is right, steam will think about these Indie developers, so steam would like to help them more,

If so... Let me suggest some ideas.

before then, I should tell my developer story honestly.
my game is poor. I know it. but I made this one game during 2 years.
In my country, there are several good social funding groups.
but I don't like such a free money, because I am not young, I think about the 'cost'(moral cost) if I failed, and so on..
and I worked part-time job during make games,
and I bought many things for make games, for example, graphic assets, many other assets, apps, tools...
and I participated Indie conference and one big game expo in my country as one of Indie groups,
and I've learned many things from there, even made some pans of my game!
but I didn't do any Ads that needs money, and of course I published this game own my self.
So in conclusion, I don't do any advertising.
I had studied programming in my younger days, but I am learning about make games, until now!

I think many many Indie developers doing these life. I saw, and met, and talked with them too!

And I have suggestions to support these hard life Indie developers.

First is make Ads effect.

Many games launching everyday, we know.
and most of the games are quickly pushed off the list and can no longer be seen.
so New Released Indie game 'tab'(only game, must seperated DLCs tab) needs one,(or Indie tab plus Indie company tab)
(or If possible, seperates Indie tab and normal small company tab(companies that pays employees salaries))
That way, many games will be able to maintain more exposure during their first release.
naturally, I think developers should be able to choose their own game as one of the indie games, at option menu
if seperates New Released tabs, and show All of them equally, perhaps, all Indie developers and normal companies will satisfied.
also, users will have discernment, not discrimination.(there are many good users in the world)

Second is Ads effect maintain.

But how can users see my game later?
so I suggest after some month, Indie game enables to select options for join in Indie bundles, that can in sight of users.(steam's bundle for Indie developers)
this is because indie developers need more users, more than money that in front of them.
also, they need time to make patches for their games.
so, like discount period, needs it for several times in year.

Third is feedback

I know there are some feedback sites, I received e-mail there, but they needed my game uploads for free for feedbackers.
how can I accept this?
so I suggest encouraging Indie bundle users to comment on the indie games they bought,
of course, in the comment space of that game.
And Steam will be able to reward that comment in many ways...without expenses.
but if necessary, if I, can offer another my game cd-key to users of that comments

I think these suggestions can do many things for Indie developers,
and steam can appeals about these things to many good users, I think.

Last one problem is, someone will think this, Indie tab games almost in bundled at later, and I will not buy till then,
yes, I would think so too, so it would be better to do the bundle a long time later from launching.
I think it should do 6 month or 1 year later.

And another solution is the 'Indie study dev tab'.(another Indie tab)
and all I suggested is to apply only to this tab(Indie bundle and feedback).
so all Indie developers can choose this tab for their games at option menu...even at a later date after launched
and this option can go back to normal state(Normal Indie tab) too.

I think we can revive many good games that had shining ideas and worked hard to produced.
Thanks for reading.

I have mixed feelings about all those numbers and posts.

As it is always good to see more numbers, it always seems that Steam is hidding data that they really shouldn't. Like a report by game releases by price tag and sales. We have to figure that out on other sites or just guesswork, and that is not good.

As a Steam user, I find really hard to find something to buy when all it is shown to me are AAA titles and current Indie successes. I usualy resort to youtubers and onther media to find something on >>STEAM<<. I want to spend money on your store and you just go "Meh, figure that out yourself". This is wrong.

As a developer, It's good to have a platform to publish my games. As someone said here, I beg to disagree in on a higher fee, I really don't see how it could help anyone (but the elite). Steam should do a little more to get 30% of what we sell and present more (clear) infos on SteamWorks too.

All of this will be nicer is steam will take 7% or 10% instead of 30%!

Originally posted by Progorion:

Sure then how is their 30% cut justified? That's what I was talking about.

Copied from my earlier post.....
The %30 percent is the cost of being on the easiest, most robust, adaptable digital distribution system ON THE PLANET.


Example: Go to Game Stop and see if they will sell your game and not take any percentage... They will not.

You must pay a cost to be on the biggest platform in the world.

I have actually ran my own website a long long time ago and distributed my games through my own website. It was a absolute nightmare. Payment gateways, Returns, uploads, updates, community forums, Emails subscriber lists, bugs reports, No depot systems, No Achievements, No Steam Workshop......etc etc. Steam takes care of all that. You think they are going to let you host on their servers and do all of that for free? No way.

I am in no way saying this to be mean. I am just stating my experience over the last 8 years on Steam. Sorry if it came off that way.