Barter Trading Tips and Tradetiquette

[r6d2]

Hello, fellow traders!

As you may be aware, Barter site lacks a proper tutorial --or primer-- for the uninitiated. There's also no list of Do's and Don'ts, or so-called Tradetiquette.

Building such a document is a major endeavour if assumed by one person alone, but maybe a crowd-sourcing effort may be more fruitful if sliced into simple tips collected over time by volunteer veterans.

I've set up this discussion to post some tips I've gathered, in the hope they will be useful to others. Please share yours as well if you think they may be of help.[1] Thanks!

*** HAPPY TRADING ***

Footnotes

[1]Even if you don't post anything, you're welcome to subscribe to this thread to be notified about future tips. Cheers!

Table of contents

1. Be serious about your trades
   

   An offer is an eventual trade, an accepted offer is a deal.

   Don't cancel accepted offers without talking to the other party first. Having no manners whatsoever and clicking agreed to cancel: Offer Failed without warning or explanation will only get you closer to another Ignore list. [Full story]
   
   
2. Get ready, but don't rush
   

   Wait for the other party to be ready before sending your key.

   Don't immediately send your key to the other party once you accept their offer. Always ask if the other user is ready to complete the trade first. This minimises the risks of getting trade disputes. [Full story]
   
   
3. Manage your tradables
   

   Disable items you cannot trade anymore.

   If you have several keys for a game and have equal number of accepted trades for it, setting Qty to 0 on Tradables will prevent other trades to take place, reducing the odds of a forced cancelled trade. [Full story]
   
   
4. Be specific
   

   The simpler your offer is, the quicker and most likely positive response you'll get.

   Don't just list a bunch of placeholder games of yours, or theirs. Use the Match feature instead. If you're a newcomer, better start small. Simple bundled for bundled 1:1 offers are the quickest and will give you experience, rep, and help you build a trading network. [Full story]
   
   
5. Be communicative
   

   State clearly what you want and also what you don't want.

   If you decline an offer, chose the most appropriate canned reason. In case you pick not worth it to me, make a comment about under which criteria you valued the offer. [Full story]
   
   
6. Manage your friends
   

   Keep as friends those whom you trade most frequently.

   But don't feel disrespected if you get removed from somebody else's friend list after a trade. It's perfectly OK to remove others from yours as well if you want to keep your list tidy. [Full story]
   
   
7. Keep your mind open
   

   Do many of the offers you get piss you off? Learn to deal with it.

   This is a trading site, not a store, so things don't have a price, but have a particular value to each person instead. If you feel you only get lowballs, you may want to re-assess your trading parameters. [Full story]
   
   
8. Game X is incorrectly tagged as "given away", what gives?
   

   Consider crowdsourced tags to be taken with a grain of salt.

   Some global tags can be applied to games by any user of the site and don't get validated. A much better indicator of a game which has been given away recently is the H:W ratio (in particular, the currently available supply). [Full story]
   
   
9. The trade could not be completed, what can I do?
   

   Whatever you do, please think it twice before failing the trade with a dispute.

   The Barter.vg community is mostly populated by friendly and honest individuals, and scammers get the boot real quick. Unfortunately, this means we all must be careful when failing a trade. When in doubt, ask a more experienced trader or post a message in the forum. [Full story]
   
   
10. I'm interested mainly on trading, not on making friends
    

    Thanks perfectly OK, don't worry. A good rule is: trade now, talk later.

    Although building a trading network is in your best interest, you're by no means obliged to do so. It's perfectly understood by most traders that not everyone has always the time or the mood to engage on small talk. To avoid any confusion, just make sure you always fulfil your trades before the chit-chat. [Full story]
    
    
11. Are there any indicators other than rep to spot a good trader?
    

    Yes, the rate of completed trades (#completed_trades / #total_offers)

    This indicator is not provided by the site but you can compute it on a 1:1 basis, and can give you a general idea of who you're dealing with. Typically, lowballers/spammers will have a very low completion rate (less than 1:10). [Full story]
    
    
12. How to spot a lowballer?
    

    By the rate of offers sent that get declined (#declined_sent / #total_sent)

    Anyone with 90% of his offers declined is probably a compulsive lowballer who does not match the community standards about what a trade offer should look like to get accepted.
    [Full story]
    
    
13. My trade partner is not available and another trader accepted the same offer. Who's got priority?
    

    Customarily, the first to accept gets priority.

    Remember not everyone is available every day and be patient. [Full story]

[r6d2]

Be serious about your trades

An offer is an eventual trade, an accepted offer is a deal.

Don't cancel accepted offers without talking to the other party first. Many things can happen, and you have every right to change your mind or even get cold feet. An accepted trade offer is not a must-comply by-any-means sort of thing.

But your reputation is on the line as well, so should the time come, try to fix the situation with the other party's agreement. Most traders will understand your reasons whatever they may be and will not give you a hard time over this, but being considerate to others always pays off.

Having no manners whatsoever and clicking agreed to cancel: Offer Failed without warning or explanation will only get you closer to another Ignore list.

[Woody]

Don't immediately send your key to the other party, once you accept their offer. Some users send out multiple offers for the same game meaning that trade might no longer be possible because they already traded it to someone else.

Always ask if the other user is ready to complete the trade first. This minimizes the risks of getting trade disputes.


(I'm not in the habit of doing that, but I know of several people who do send multiple offers for the same tradable)

[Rowtan]

If a game is no longer in your tradeables, and you aren't planning on getting more keys; either remove it from tradeables or if you're planning on getting more keys in the future, set quantity to 0. Otherwise don't keep it there.

[r6d2]

Be specific

The simpler your offer is, the quicker and most likely positive response you'll get.

Don't just list a bunch of placeholder games of yours, or theirs. This kind of let's-work-out-a-deal-among-these-lines offer may be perceived as mere laziness/cluelessness if you're a newbie, or as plain lack of professionalism if you're experienced.

Remember the other party can use the Match feature as well if he wants, so being specific generally yields best results.

Even when carefully crafted, complex n:m (many-to-many) offers tend to be a burden for the most busy traders, and they may feel the need to leave them for later or simply decline them because it's not worth their time and effort to check every game.

If you're a newcomer, better start small. Simple bundled for bundled 1:1 offers are the quickest and will give you experience, rep, and help you build a name and get friends among the community. And don't worry, one step at a time you'll get into the higher leagues sooner than expected.

[r6d2]

Be communicative

State clearly what you want and also what you don't want.

If you decline an offer, chose the most appropriate canned reason: do not want, already own, no longer have and region lock are pretty self-explanatory.

However, not worth it to me may mean anything, since value (or worth) of games is completely subjective.

Some traders value games by current Steam price, MSRP[1], lowest sale price, current site supply/demand (HW ratio), availability of achievements, if games have cards, and even the most seemingly funny criteria you can think of. And yet, as legitimate as yours.

There are probably as many trading criteria as traders, and unless the other party is a mind reader, he cannot guess your own.

So make sure you have comments enabled on your profile settings and state under which criteria you valued the offer. Conveying this information to the other party may help him make you a better one next time, saving his time as well as yours.[2]

Footnotes

[1]MSRP: Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price
[2]BTW, dull and politically correct comments like "Thanks, but I think my game is more valuable than yours" do not convey any more information than just not worth it to me. If you cannot see why, you probably need to read this tip again every few hours, until you get it.
If you definitely don't get it, then better disable offer comments. You can still trade, but you're not suited to use this site feature.

[notNSANE]

Can you update your first post with all these posts? Also make them a bit shorter. If you can't, I'll start a new "compilation" thread with proper markup but you know how to properly format posts.

I want to stress this one as my main concern: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bartervg/discussions/0/351660338682826769/#c351660338685785553

It never happened to me on SteamGifts, but here on Barter people send the key first. I even marked most of my keys as "already used" and also updated my status with "rules" but they keep sending the keys first.

[notNSANE]

I'd like to add another bartertiquette (?) -

It's OK to delete the other user when the offer is fully completed.

It's not a lack of respect, it's because some users don't like to have "Friends" that won't talk to anymore, or won't remember who they are after some weeks. In all cases, the deleted user should feel free to add the other user again in case there are concerns of any type.

[luckz]

Originally posted by NSANE:

It never happened to me on SteamGifts, but here on Barter people send the key first. I even marked most of my keys as "already used" and also updated my status with "rules" but they keep sending the keys first.

"Please try my key first, as I'm not 100% sure if it works" does the trick for me.

Alas, it's indeed also desirable to have a Steam chat confirmation that the other party wants to do the trade.

[notNSANE]

Originally posted by luckz:

Originally posted by NSANE:

It never happened to me on SteamGifts, but here on Barter people send the key first. I even marked most of my keys as "already used" and also updated my status with "rules" but they keep sending the keys first.

"Please try my key first, as I'm not 100% sure if it works" does the trick for me.

But I can't say anything to the other person until he/she accepted my Steam invite. So I add them, and they accept and send me the key instantly or something. No chance for me to comment anything.

[r6d2]

Keep your mind open

Do many of the offers you get piss you off? Learn to deal with it.

This is a trading site, not a store, so things don't have a price, but have a particular value to each person instead.

Cultural differences matter a lot in trading. Some cultures make of bargaining an art, and lowballing --or highballing, in turn-- is just the first step to a possibly fruitful business relationship.

Of course some people abuse this and have the habit of sending lowballs just in case you trip on an offer, but you'll get to know them soon enough. As a clue, they typically have a very low ratio of completed vs total offers, since most of theirs get declined.[1]

It's understandable you feel overwhelmed if you "only" get lowballs. But then again, you may as well manage living with that if you want to be serious about trading. You can always ignore those who you think are time wasters. If you suddenly find yourself ignoring too many people, re-assess your trading parameters. Maybe it's you who's being too picky about your games.[2]

Footnotes

[1]Under 10% is definitely a no-no.
[2]BTW, if you have low tolerance to frustration, anger management issues or suffer from any sort of paranoia that makes you systematically think less of others over a simple trade offer, please ask a friend to do the trades for you. You'll be happier, the rest of traders will not have to deal with your tantrums, and everybody wins.

[gorthic]

Should I send Gift Links or Steam Keys?

Indiegala:

Gala warns us to reveal keys as soon as possible. Some people have held games for years and sent gift links without problems, but I choose to reveal keys early and trade keys. Your opinion?

Humble Bundle:

On Humble, you can click either “Redeem on Steam” or click “Gift to a friend”. I think Gift is a little safer and better even though it takes an extra step for the recipient.

With gift links, the recipient can see the game name and that the key is unused, before revealing the key. If something in the trade goes wrong, the recipient can give the gift back. (When later trading that game, the gifter should explain that the key should be revealed and activated soon, since another trader still has access to the gift. See post 24.)

You can’t test a key, but if you’re careful, the gifter can check an old gift link without claiming it, to see it is still good. Be sure not to claim the gift!

With a key, if either trader makes a mistake or if Steam doesn’t work properly, it seems easier for one trader to blame the other.

A downside to giving a Humble gift link: it makes it easier for the trader to sell the game for money, which Steam, the game developer, and Humble probably don’t like. I don’t know if it could likely be traced back to you, but a few people fear losing their account. Others think selling is unethical.

[r6d2]

Thanks for your post! Your have indeed brought up several myths about giftlinks that are probably shared by most traders. Since they are many, I'l try to address them in separate posts.

Should IG keys/links be used ASAP?

Originally posted by gorthic:

Gala warns us to reveal keys as soon as possible. Some people have held games for years and sent gift links without problems, but I choose to reveal keys early and trade keys. Your opinion?

In my experience Indiegala suggests that only as a precaution, since they return the unsold keys to the publisher after the bundle or promotion has ended. Hence, their backoffice operation is greatly simplified if you have redeemed all your keys before that happens, otherwise any wrong or invalid key has to be replaced with much greater overhead.

But I feel perfectly confident keeping my keys unrevealed on Indiegala. It also serves me as a double purpose: I always know that any unrevealed key implies it has not been redeemed by me nor traded to someone else.

[r6d2]

Do giftlinks avoid region locking?

Originally posted by gorthic:

A few people think [HB's] gift links might avoid region locks in some cases.

TL;DR

It's a common belief but it does not seem to be the case.

I have tried to overcome the region locking limitation using the giftlink trick in some experiments I did with the very own Barter.vg admin, without any positive results.

HB later confirmed me via support that region locking is determined at buying time by your payment method and purchase IP address, not afterwards.

It's worthy of note that region locking is not determined by the retailer, but by the publisher instead, and the retailer must simply enforce what its agreement with the publisher states.

And we may like it or not, but the publisher has every right to apply regional policies.

In my opinion, though, the retailer is obliged to inform to the public any region locking that will be applied before the purchase is completed. BS and IG have always been straightforward about this. Unfortunately, though, HB didn't seem to consider this a consumer right until very recently.

[r6d2]

Are HB giftlinks safer than keys?

Originally posted by gorthic:

On Humble, you can click either “Redeem on Steam” or click “Gift to a friend”. I think Gift is a little safer and better even though it takes an extra step for the recipient.

TL;DR

Definitely safer for the recipient, but only 100% safe provided it's a true giftlink. Some traders give you already claimed giftlinks --probably in good faith-- but it's important to be aware of the difference.

Originally posted by gorthic:

Also the recipient can see the game name and that the key is unused, before revealing the key. If something in the trade goes wrong, the recipient can give the gift back to the gifter, who can then reveal the key to trade later.

Well, this is not completely accurate. While it can be done, it's not really safe for the original sender.

There's a somewhat subtle difference between claiming a gift and revealing a key. To understand why, let's analyse the whole process in detail:

1. User A buys a bundle. If he decides to gift a game to someone else, a special and unique giftlink for that single key is generated.
   
2. At this point User A cannot reveal the key anymore.[1]
   
3. User A shares the giftlink with user B.
   
4. User B clicks on the giftlink and fills in his email address and claims the gift.
   
5. At his point two things happen:
   - Whatever the gift's contents, it gets tied to user B's account, although user B is not able to reveal the key or confirm it belongs to the correct game yet.[2]
   - The original giftlink ceases to exist. It cannot be longer accessed by user A or user B. In fact, anyone who tries will get the infamous used-gift message.
   
6. User B gets via email a new --different-- link which, when opened, shows the name of the game and the option to reveal the key.[3]
   
7. Only at this point user B can be 100% sure he received as promised, since he has personally claimed the giftlink and verified it corresponds to the intended game. Revealing the key now does not make any difference for user B. He may as well do it later.

That's the difference between claiming a gift and revealing a key.

You can check this for yourself by noticing that the 2 URLs (giftlink, new link) differ substantially. Only user B has access to the new link, and of course anyone he shares the link with. But even if user B does this, he still retains access to reveal the key.

That's why giftlinks are 100% safe only when they are indeed giftlinks, not after being claimed.

Still, claimed-unrevealed keys have advantages over simple keys too:

• Recipient can be sure the game is from an official retailer and trusted source.
  
• Both sender and recipient can clearly see the key corresponds to the game at hand.
  
• Both sender and recipient can see the key has not fallen through some of the infamous security cracks and thus is not lost forever.

Footnotes

[1] Unless, of course, he gifts the giftlink it to himself.
[2] This page will not be accessible from the Key's menu of HB's website, but it will be listed among the links obtained with the Order Resender feature if a recovery maneuver is needed.
[3] This new link is not a giftlink. It cannot be gifted, since it has already been claimed. It can only be revealed.

[r6d2]

Are IG giftlinks safer than keys?

Originally posted by gorthic:

[...Extending previous question to IG as well...] I think Gift is a little safer and better even though it takes an extra step for the recipient.

TL;DR

Definitely not.

IMHO, IG giftlinks are far inferior to HB giftlinks, and they don't provide any additional safety for the receiving party. This is why:

• IG giftlinks don't get linked to the account of the user who claims them, so there's no way to recover them in case of need; and
  
• The original buyer always retains the possibility of revealing the key, since there's no expiration of the original giftlink or new URL generated.

BTW, all this applies to full bundle giftlinks as well, which makes IG giftlinks particularly insecure in this case.

Besides not providing additional security, IG giftlinks may become a real hassle if you're the receiving party. Attempting to reveal the keys from a giftlink while logged to your IG account may result in you to become temporarily banned from IG since the IP you're using is probably different each time.

While not an unsolvable problem, it may require you to re activate your session via a security code sent to your registered email account within IG before proceeding.