Concerning behaviour of certain developers - is this money laundering?

[crunchyfrog]

I'm not aware anyone has posted this, but SidAlpha has recently made a VERY intersting video about these games which could indeed be attempts to money launder.

Of course, you're not liable to find out clear empirical evidence, but it is HIGHLY suspicious for these Chinese developers to offer games for 200 dollars a pop with no apparent publicising to speak of (quite the opposite).

These are hallmarks of money laundering, and I bring it up to hopefully bring it to Steam's attention, if they haven't seen it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2wyY1s1PuA

[Three English Letters شازام]

I'll give it a watch! Thanks!

[Jazz]

I've always wondered about those games

[cinedine]

These titles exist for some time now. Even if it were, that's not a Steam problem, so why post it in suggestions?

What does the price point has to do with anything even? I can just as well use Steam to launder money with a five dollar game.

[Black Blade]

It's an interesting idea, but I think there are a few problems with it
One if there is for money laundering I think they were likely to just spend some amount more just to get a little more decent game out, then an asset flip, that way it can stick out less then it is

Also, this system as he said sounds really really slow, and that will be bad for them overall, I mean they get a pretty big cut overall, doing a lot of work, and on top of all that they have to do it really really slowly to not jump the red flag

Gift cards as much as I know can be canceled and pretty sure I heard on someone that got a card from some 3rd party site for them to lose the game as the gift card was revoked later on
I mean the gift card idea is nice, but that means they had to go to a store, get some gift cards for a legit business, and then use it to pay for there own game, the gift card if its illegal can be canceled and that overall should start rising a red flag when there is some amount of users buying the same overpriced game with gift cards that were canceled

It's possible, but I honestly find all this being a little of a stretch, the only case I can see it being used is maybe some really small money laundering or just someone hoping to get some fools to buy their BS, maybe collectors or the like, I mean 200$ can be a lot of money for a private person in china, and just a few buyers, can make nice side money for almost no work even if there only like 3 buyers

I think that is more likely as it fits for the low effort compere to just hiring some developer to make a very standard game that I think more likely a money laundering group will do

Edit

Beyond that for asset flips it likely be a better money laundering trick to just make a 2$/5$ game that is an asset flip then just do a huge giveaway to give out
It will stick out much much less, and you can buy a lot in a short time

Edit 2

Also checking up now, I can see the game here
If they want to be trying to remain discreet I think they will only sale it in one or two regions, not work to put the prices everywhere (even you can do it by default)

[cinedine]

Początkowo opublikowane przez fauxtronic:

Początkowo opublikowane przez cinedine:

These titles exist for some time now. Even if it were, that's not a Steam problem...

Any person or business conducting a financial transaction that occurs wholly or partially in the United States is obligated under the criminal laws of the United States to avoid transacting in criminal proceeds.

So if Valve knows its platform is being used for money laundering, it is a Valve problem. Otherwise, it is not. I think digital platforms such as this are granted Safe Harbour Provisions provided they file Suspicious Activity Reports when they suspect money laundering.

For all we know, Valve is aware of the developers concerned and has filed said reports. Presumably it's then up to the government to act if money laundering is really taking place.

And that's where fraud protection mechanisms come in play. Valve has them. There is no way to determine for Valve where the money comes from.

There are other stupendous expensive articles on Steam. I also remember some bloke posting his game creator software files on itch.io for a whooping USD 1000 for the whole pack. That is without any stand alone executables. But they put it on constant sale for 99.99 % off.

I think it's a big rich for Clickbait Alpha to say "I have no evidence" and than accuse them of criminal actions. He has nothing to base this accusation of. Nothing at all.
The games might just as well be priced that high to extort money from stupid Westerners who buy anything for a 99 % off with trading cards and stuff. We have seen other "Developers" do it before.

So, not a Valve problem. They do their dues.

[Start_Running]

No this is not money laundering. It'd be a rather ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way to do so given you lose 30% off the top., and that's before applicable taxes.

It's likely just some publisher doing it for the lols or simply hoping to find a few easy whales.

Nothing illegal there. You can sell anything for just about any price you want. Or more accurately you can ask anyprice you want for something you're selling. Thats the right of the retailer. Just like a worker may choose what wage or salary they will work for.

The better question is .. who the heck is buying the games.

[Black Blade]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Start_Running:

No this is not money laundering. It'd be a rather ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way to do so given you lose 30% off the top., and that's before applicable taxes.

It's likely just some publisher doing it for the lols or simply hoping to find a few easy whales.

Nothing illegal there. You can sell anything for just about any price you want. Or more accurately you can ask anyprice you want for something you're selling. Thats the right of the retailer. Just like a worker may choose what wage or salary they will work for.

The better question is .. who the heck is buying the games.

To be completely honest 30% is not that bad for money laundering overall, I mean there doing something unlegal, so losing 30% is really not all that bad

[Brian9824]

Początkowo opublikowane przez fauxtronic:

Początkowo opublikowane przez cinedine:

These titles exist for some time now. Even if it were, that's not a Steam problem...

So if Valve knows its platform is being used for money laundering, it is a Valve problem. Otherwise, it is not. I think digital platforms such as this are granted Safe Harbour Provisions provided they file Suspicious Activity Reports when they suspect money laundering.

You hit it on the head. IF Valve knows, which there is no way to in this case. Their isn't a single shred of evidence its occuring, just conjecture and guessing on someone's part.

There is actually MORE of a crime with people ACCUSING them of doing it then there is with them doing it.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Black Blade:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Start_Running:

No this is not money laundering. It'd be a rather ♥♥♥♥♥♥ way to do so given you lose 30% off the top., and that's before applicable taxes.

It's likely just some publisher doing it for the lols or simply hoping to find a few easy whales.

Nothing illegal there. You can sell anything for just about any price you want. Or more accurately you can ask anyprice you want for something you're selling. Thats the right of the retailer. Just like a worker may choose what wage or salary they will work for.

The better question is .. who the heck is buying the games.

To be completely honest 30% is not that bad for money laundering overall, I mean there doing something unlegal, so losing 30% is really not all that bad

30% is unbelievably bad, they could launder money far easier just buying gift cards slightly over face value and re-selling them for instance.

[Black Blade]

Początkowo opublikowane przez brian9824:

30% is unbelievably bad, they could launder money far easier just buying gift cards slightly over face value and re-selling them for instance.

The change is here you are talking about digital, no physical stuff involved, but ya, guess other ways are likely to roll much better and easier then this

[Start_Running]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Black Blade:

Początkowo opublikowane przez brian9824:

30% is unbelievably bad, they could launder money far easier just buying gift cards slightly over face value and re-selling them for instance.

The change is here you are talking about digital, no physical stuff involved, but ya, guess other ways are likely to roll much better and easier then this

Whether its digital or not is irrelevant to the equation. It's an accounting entry.
Besides the real sweet spot for money laundering is crypto currency.

[KeplersConjecture]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Start_Running:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Black Blade:

The change is here you are talking about digital, no physical stuff involved, but ya, guess other ways are likely to roll much better and easier then this

Whether its digital or not is irrelevant to the equation. It's an accounting entry.
Besides the real sweet spot for money laundering is crypto currency.

Actually its 'art' but crypto is a close second.

[ElvisDeadly]

I'm sure there are easier ways to launder money....

It's just youtube clickbait

[Sleepy Yoshi]

We know laundering has occurred on Steam in the past. Valve has blatantly said as much and the changes to CS:GO keys were a direct result of that. It's not far fetched to think it still occurs in some capacity. I'd imagine that steam tracks games like these though.

At the very least earlier this year they removed numerous $150+ games from the store, albeit this could be for a wide variety of reasons. I don't think laundering can be dismissed entirely, but he doesn't really consider any other possibility and that's what always bothers me about his videos.

The last part of his video I disagree with entirely though. His claims that Valve "wouldn't care about this" and Valve "would be none the wiser" are unfounded. These accusations strike me as odd, as he is holding a company accountable for a crime, that he openly admits he has no evidence has even occurred.

[crunchyfrog]

Początkowo opublikowane przez cinedine:

These titles exist for some time now. Even if it were, that's not a Steam problem, so why post it in suggestions?

What does the price point has to do with anything even? I can just as well use Steam to launder money with a five dollar game.

Simple, because it's not the price point in itself that is the problem. It's shining al ight on what could be a potential money laundering problem.

And why it is a problem for Steam is patently obvious - can you imagine the ♥♥♥♥ that would attract if it were the case? The authorities would undoubtedly be keen on going through Valve's business if this got found out.

That's the whole point.

[crunchyfrog]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Black Blade:

It's an interesting idea, but I think there are a few problems with it
One if there is for money laundering I think they were likely to just spend some amount more just to get a little more decent game out, then an asset flip, that way it can stick out less then it is

Also, this system as he said sounds really really slow, and that will be bad for them overall, I mean they get a pretty big cut overall, doing a lot of work, and on top of all that they have to do it really really slowly to not jump the red flag

Gift cards as much as I know can be canceled and pretty sure I heard on someone that got a card from some 3rd party site for them to lose the game as the gift card was revoked later on
I mean the gift card idea is nice, but that means they had to go to a store, get some gift cards for a legit business, and then use it to pay for there own game, the gift card if its illegal can be canceled and that overall should start rising a red flag when there is some amount of users buying the same overpriced game with gift cards that were canceled

It's possible, but I honestly find all this being a little of a stretch, the only case I can see it being used is maybe some really small money laundering or just someone hoping to get some fools to buy their BS, maybe collectors or the like, I mean 200$ can be a lot of money for a private person in china, and just a few buyers, can make nice side money for almost no work even if there only like 3 buyers

I think that is more likely as it fits for the low effort compere to just hiring some developer to make a very standard game that I think more likely a money laundering group will do

Edit

Beyond that for asset flips it likely be a better money laundering trick to just make a 2$/5$ game that is an asset flip then just do a huge giveaway to give out
It will stick out much much less, and you can buy a lot in a short time

Edit 2

Also checking up now, I can see the game here
If they want to be trying to remain discreet I think they will only sale it in one or two regions, not work to put the prices everywhere (even you can do it by default)

Nah, that doesn't follow because they simply wouldn't bother with more effort because that's not the goal. All they need to do is ENOUGH - enough to make it unnoticeable and somewhat valid as a game.

Have you ever looked at bootleg games, records, movies, etc? Some of them are really well done, but they ALWAYS have small problems whether an incorrect colour palette, or lack of gold lettering, or mispelling somewhere or something else. And it's because it just has to be good ENOUGH.


But in any case, you could be right. The whole point of this post is that it CANNOT be proven by us, but it absolutely should ring alarm bells and be reported so that Valve can look into it further.