Steam Community, and Review Bombing. Something needs to be done.

[DefectiveByDesign]

I'm not saying you should remove user reviews. Sites like YouTube embed anti-misinformation fact check links directly into conspiracy videos. If you implemented a similar policy, there's no way misinformation could spread and rile up hate mobs.

Case in point: Doom Eternal.
"Many have unfortunately related the performance and stability issues introduced in Update 1 to the introduction of anti-cheat. They are not related."
Directly from Marty himself.
People were flat out lying that the anti-cheat was causing problems, when it wasn't, and if Steam posted a "fact-check" on every review bomber's post, this would not have gone anywhere.

I know you guys have existing review bomb mitigation, but this clearly does not counter misinformation, and allows liars to infect the playerbase like a virus. Moderation is too inefficient and a waste of resources. Counter the problem directly at it's source, with the most efficient method, which is an automated fact check embedded into every review bombers negative review.

You also should limit each game forum to actual owners upon any review bomb. The forums should not be abused by outsiders, since they don't even own the game.

Otherwise, the entire site will continue to be plagued with nonsense, every time something happens. If people want to complain, then it should be done by actual game owners, and people who have legitimate complaints. Not liars. That needs to be stopped.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Report incorrect reviews.

Game hubs can be restricted to owners only IF the game devs/pubs wish. It is not a job for Valve to lock it down.

[Crazy Tiger]

Nguyên văn bởi DefectiveByDesign:

People were flat out lying that the anti-cheat was causing problems, when it wasn't,

Cause it possibly cannot be that Marty was lying, right?

Game developers can lock all but 1 subforum to owners of the game only. Most don't, that's their choice.
Measures against review bombs are already in place.
Reviews are opinions. People have the right to wrong opinions.

We get it, you don't like what happened. However, one-siding things is always a bad move.

[DefectiveByDesign]

Nguyên văn bởi cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Report incorrect reviews.

Game hubs can be restricted to owners only IF the game devs/pubs wish. It is not a job for Valve to lock it down.

:qr:

Ok, this is good to know, but the incorrect reviews are a separate issue that would take way too much effort to manually report every single review. There should be some sort of public "official response" when this happens, since a lot of these bombs are based off misinformation, and some simple info boxes could put a huge damper in the momentum.

From what i've seen, a large part of this was due to poor communication from the devs, not to mention lack of any forum control on their part. The communication part could at least be addressed with some info boxes.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Nguyên văn bởi DefectiveByDesign:

Nguyên văn bởi cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Report incorrect reviews.

Game hubs can be restricted to owners only IF the game devs/pubs wish. It is not a job for Valve to lock it down.

:qr:

Ok, this is good to know, but the incorrect reviews are a separate issue that would take way too much effort to manually report every single review. There should be some sort of public "official response" when this happens, since a lot of these bombs are based off misinformation, and some simple info boxes could put a huge damper in the momentum.

From what i've seen, a large part of this was due to poor communication from the devs, not to mention lack of any forum control on their part. The communication part could at least be addressed with some info boxes.

The developer can respond to the reviews, if they wish to do so.

[Ishan451]

Nguyên văn bởi DefectiveByDesign:

Steam Community, and Review Bombing. Something needs to be done.

Nothing needs to be done about review bombing, other than stop calling it Review Bombing, because they are usually not organized efforts, but instead a bunch of consumers expressing their negative opinion of a change or title.

Just like was in the interest of consumers to know about companies using childlabor or working with blood diamond sellers, it is in the consumers interest to be informed about anything involving a title. And if these people feel like they cannot recommend a game, or feel like people shouldn't be giving money to a company because of X.. then that should be their right.

If you can demonstrate that they flat out lie in their reviews, then report them, otherwise click the "not helpful" button and let the good reviews rise to the top.

As annoying as it might be for a fan to see a lot of people to give it a negative review, it should remain their right and ability to do so.

[Lightning Wolf]

usually review bombing happens for a reason. and I for one tend to listen when it happens. because usually the company who made the game f***ed up in some way to earn a bombing.

[Travis the Moonstar]

Your review on Steam for any game is "Would you recommend this game?"

A negative review is just the person saying "Don't buy this! Here's why..."

So yeah, I guess game developers/publishers can get over it? I don't see a problem with a bunch of people reacting to something by saying "Hey, don't buy this."

Also, the publisher that gets user reviews taken away will also be the one that goes bankrupt. The Streisand Effect will destroy anyone foolish enough to ignore it.

[Travis the Moonstar]

"...stopped at all cost" is what most people have a problem with. There isn't a good way to do it because any solution will sweep up everyone.

If there is a coordinated effort, that's very important, to drop negative reviews on a game without merit, that part is important too, then you can say there is a review bomb of a game.

It's as the person said earlier:

Nguyên văn bởi Ishan451:

Nguyên văn bởi DefectiveByDesign:

Steam Community, and Review Bombing. Something needs to be done.

Nothing needs to be done about review bombing, other than stop calling it Review Bombing, because they are usually not organized efforts, but instead a bunch of consumers expressing their negative opinion of a change or title.

Just like was in the interest of consumers to know about companies using childlabor or working with blood diamond sellers, it is in the consumers interest to be informed about anything involving a title. And if these people feel like they cannot recommend a game, or feel like people shouldn't be giving money to a company because of X.. then that should be their right.

If you can demonstrate that they flat out lie in their reviews, then report them, otherwise click the "not helpful" button and let the good reviews rise to the top.

As annoying as it might be for a fan to see a lot of people to give it a negative review, it should remain their right and ability to do so.

Most of the time reviews are earned. I see no reason to stifle that. A bad decision should tarnish the image of the product and the company.

[Laptop]

I've seen incorrect reviews in the past stay up, the rules seem to be so long as you aren't directly flaming / threatening the developers then you can write whatever you want, silly really.

[Edifier]

Nguyên văn bởi davidb11:

I agree with you, but every review bomb so far has been an attack against the company. Hence the use of the word Bomb in it's name.

I've never seen a review bomb that is valid at all. Ever.

If you can provide me with a single bit of evidence, please do so.
I'd love to see a valid attack on a company's profits.

And fair enough, not at all costs, but it is not impossible to tell between a valid review and a review bomb.

Look at Ion Fury.
Why won't people listen to me when I bring up Ion Fury?
THat review bomb alone proves why people cannot be taken seriously with review bombing.

The issue with Doom Eternal game and the Anti cheat was that on another Linux based OS it literally made the game crash for them constantly. Even in SP.

People who play on that OS got rightfully mad and would give the game a downvote review.

Bethesda has already taken action in the way that they removed the Anti cheat they put in but they will put it back later and make it so that it isn't used in SP.

People had legit reasons to be mad.


Another review bomb I've seen was GTV5 and Rockstar lawyers issuing a DMCA or lawsuit to a mod owner that only worked in SP but the lawyers thought it worked online too.
GTA5 got about 20k+ negative reviews for this behavior.


There are reasons why people will give negative reviews and to claim ALL review bombs are done unfairly is ridiculous. Game developers doing stupid things that hurt/insult the costumers in some way will feel the wrath of review bombs.
If they stop doing these stupid things they won't get review bombs.

[wuddih]

Nguyên văn bởi Edifier:

The issue with Doom Eternal game and the Anti cheat was that on another Linux based OS it literally made the game crash for them constantly. Even in SP.

People who play on that OS got rightfully mad and would give the game a downvote review.

Bethesda has already taken action in the way that they removed the Anti cheat they put in but they will put it back later and make it so that it isn't used in SP.

People had legit reasons to be mad.

the game is not supposed to run on linux.
if an update breaks the game running in a simulated windows environment on linux, that is not a rightful reason to be mad.

[Edifier]

Nguyên văn bởi wuddih:

Nguyên văn bởi Edifier:

The issue with Doom Eternal game and the Anti cheat was that on another Linux based OS it literally made the game crash for them constantly. Even in SP.

People who play on that OS got rightfully mad and would give the game a downvote review.

Bethesda has already taken action in the way that they removed the Anti cheat they put in but they will put it back later and make it so that it isn't used in SP.

People had legit reasons to be mad.

the game is not supposed to run on linux.
if an update breaks the game running in a simulated windows environment on linux, that is not a rightful reason to be mad.

The game ran okay on Linux, the anti cheat broke it entirely.

Bethesda themselves felt that this was wrong and have reversed it so that they can let their Linux fans play it again.

Nguyên văn bởi davidb11:

Right. Now that's a good point.
Also, Denuvo themselves provided a way to fix it, IIRC.

Because hey, "Screw the customer!" is the right way to go in this situation right?

Also where would you draw the line between review bomb and normal negative reviews? Seeing that a game that worked but got broken with an update isn't a good enough reason for you.

Also how many reviews before it's seen as bad?
No Mans Sky had the highest amount of negative reviews of all time. Was that review bombing even though they lied about so much?

[Edifier]

Nguyên văn bởi davidb11:

Well, you killed your credibility by claiming Sean Murray of No Man's Sky lied.
That is wrong, and has been wrong since 2016. Literally by the definition of the word.
First off, His interviews ARE NOT BEHOLDEN TO THE FINISHED PRODUCT. No interview is BEHOLDEN to the finished product. NO DEMO is beholden to the finished product.
Also, they had a damn flood and lost a lot of progress.
In essence, nothing Sean said is valid in his interviews, beyond him HYPING IT aLL UP.
You're trying to punish him for not being good at self-control. :P


You lose all my respect for spreading one of the biggest lies in recent history. There are fewer things worse than crapping on a game over something that never happened.
Can't believe people are spreading nonsense still. It's been 4 freaking years. Get over No Man's Sky. Seriously.

In an interview a guy asked him "Will you be able to meet each other in the game?" The answer was "Yes, but the odds of that was so small it would never happen." It happened within the first few days of the game and was proven wrong in mere hours.
This was pretty close to launch of the game too.

The trailer used as "Ingame" graphics was hand made and the gameplay was nothing like that. The creatures seen in it where hand made too because you could find them if you did some digging in the games folder.

I can not believe anyone would actually defend the lies of Sean Murray. But hey you're the person who think people who had their game broken by a patch have no good reasons to leave a negative review.

[Darren]

Nguyên văn bởi davidb11:

Wow. You're still wrong. Good job.
First, don't use the stupid line about being able to meet people. He's not really good at answering questions. :P
Second, it's been 4 years, only evil people still hate Sean Murray. Let alone spread hate and vitrol against him.
Third, the trailer IS NOT LEGALLY BINDING as I already explained. Therefor, CANNOT BE USED.
One of the large creatures in the trailer was actually found in game.
Fourth, THEY WERE LITERALLY RUSHED BY SONY.
Fifth, Again, that happened 4 years ago, build me a bridge, and drive the hell over it!
Sixth, making up stuff about an event 4 years ago while also attacking me will destroy your credibility in full.
Only truly evil people hate Sean Murray 4 years later, after he's literally turned the GAME COMPLETELY AROUND.

Well at least some people haven't given the game a second chance since the initial disappointment. I haven't played it since a few days after it was initially released. So if they hated Sean Murray then yeah they probably would still hate him now.

Me I never hated him, I was just disappointed that he couldn't live up to his big promises and didn't bother updating people that yeah those things that we said in those interviews not actually what the case is in the 1.0 version. From what I hear what they have now is actually pretty close to what those big promises were. Maybe I'll load it up at some point in the future (when I run out of other things to play) and see how much it's improved.

[Edifier]

Nguyên văn bởi davidb11:

Wow. You're still wrong. Good job.
First, don't use the stupid line about being able to meet people. He's not really good at answering questions. :P
Second, it's been 4 years, only evil people still hate Sean Murray. Let alone spread hate and vitrol against him.
Third, the trailer IS NOT LEGALLY BINDING as I already explained. Therefor, CANNOT BE USED.
One of the large creatures in the trailer was actually found in game.
Fourth, THEY WERE LITERALLY RUSHED BY SONY.
Fifth, Again, that happened 4 years ago, build me a bridge, and drive the hell over it!
Sixth, making up stuff about an event 4 years ago while also attacking me will destroy your credibility in full.
Only truly evil people hate Sean Murray 4 years later, after he's literally turned the GAME COMPLETELY AROUND.

He was asked a simple question before release and he lied about it. Making excuses won't work in this case. He could have said "It's in the works" or "Not yet" but he didn't.

I went back to check on the game after they had done plenty of patches. The base game is still bad. There wasn't much that they added that made a difference for me. It has been uninstalled since then. A Mediocre space mining game is what it is.

But you keep bringing up credibility is getting rather silly. Seeing that you're able to excuse anything No Mans Sky did back at release. I don't. I have some standards.


But this topic is about reviews and review bombing.

What would be an acceptable reason to give a negative review for?

Lies and games being seems to none of them so far.

What would the acceptable number of negative reviews be allowed for it to be a review bombing?

Would you just draw a line and go if there are X amount of negative reviews any that comes after it are review bombing?