Steam shouldn't suggest installing itself in Program Files

[Zaflis]

Of course advanced users will know how to set it to C:\Steam\ or other path, but it's less obvious for less computer minded people. "Program Files" is Windows' special admin rights hell where you really don't want anything that matters to you most. There are games that even install user data in game directory! Troubleshooting many game problems often result in requiring editing shortcuts to allow admin rights etc... Seriously, don't put games in Program Files ever! Steam, this issue stands on your shoulders the most because you're the one recommending that crappy practise!

[Spawn of Totoro]

Program Files (and Program File x86) is the recommended (by Microsoft) and default location for any program to be installed. It has no special rights from just being in that folder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_Files

[wuddih]

you have issues with your windows installation.
Steam operates normally and as intended in progfiles.

[Satoru]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Program Files (and Program File x86) is the recommended (by Microsoft) and default location for any program to be installed. It has no special rights from just being in that folder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_Files

Actually program file along with users/documents and settings/ my documents are special folders in windows. You can’t rename them and if you try to do “clever” things with them, like trying to map documents and settings to a mounted partition Windows will have seizures.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Satoru:

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Program Files (and Program File x86) is the recommended (by Microsoft) and default location for any program to be installed. It has no special rights from just being in that folder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_Files

Actually program file along with users/documents and settings/ my documents are special folders in windows. You can’t rename them and if you try to do “clever” things with them, like trying to map documents and settings to a mounted partition Windows will have seizures.

We are talking about programs with in the ProgamFiles directory and if them being put there gives them special permissions (admin rights, by the OP) and it doesn't.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

We are talking about programs with in the ProgamFiles directory and if them being put there gives them special permissions (admin rights, by the OP) and it doesn't.

First of all; programs in Program Files do kind of behave slightly differently.
For executables launched from inside that folder a few of the Windows API calls flow through some additional indirections that allow the OS to hook in patches for legacy OS version behavior.

One game which subtly misbehaves when you install it in Program Files (through having Steam there, along with the main game library) is e.g. Roller Coaster Tycoon 3. It gets screwy with some special folder redirection and refuses to pick up a few custom assets from special folders, iirc.

Secondly, Program Files is special because needs administrative privileges for write permission.
Many video games, also modern ones - esp. bad console ports -, still need things like config files to be written into the game directory inside Program Files. Thus they will break when launched from Program Files under a regular user account or under a non-UAC elevated token-split admin account.


As Steam always creates the primary game library below its own install location, it is indeed a best practice to not install Steam itself in Program Files.

Maybe if Valve offered the option to not force creation of the default library location below the Steam application folder itself, this advice could change...

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by RiO:

First of all; programs in Program Files do kind of behave slightly differently.
For executables launched from inside that folder a few of the Windows API calls flow through some additional indirections that allow the OS to hook in patches for legacy OS version behavior.

One game which subtly misbehaves when you install it in Program Files (through having Steam there, along with the main game library) is e.g. Roller Coaster Tycoon 3. It gets screwy with some special folder redirection and refuses to pick up a few custom assets from special folders, iirc.

Secondly, Program Files is special because needs administrative privileges for write permission.
Many video games, also modern ones - esp. bad console ports -, still need things like config files to be written into the game directory inside Program Files. Thus they will break when launched from Program Files under a regular user account or under a non-UAC elevated token-split admin account.


As Steam always creates the primary game library below its own install location, it is indeed a best practice to not install Steam itself in Program Files.

Maybe if Valve offered the option to not force creation of the default library location below the Steam application folder itself, this advice could change...

And yet, not an issues as ALL games default to that directory. I don't mean Steam games either. Every service defaults to ProgramFiles and even stand alone games default there. If there was an issue with doing so, then they wouldn't be doing as such and for so long.

I still don't see a reason for ProgramFiles to not be the default directory. One thing that Valve has said in their FAQs is that it is not suggested to give admin privileges to Steam, so as long as one isn't do that, there should be no issues.

And do you have any links to sources for what was, so I can read up on it?

[Tharon]

Steam automatically transfer admin privileges to all the executables it launches. This is why the Steam service exists.

Even if the user don't have admin privileges, Steam Service will give them to the game it launches, bypassing UAC.
So there is no problem for games installed in Program Files.
Of course this can (and should) rise a lot of questions about the rights of Steam to stealthy tamper with the computer security, but this is another matter.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Tharon:

Steam automatically transfer admin privileges to all the executables it launches. This is why the Steam service exists.

Even if the user don't have admin privileges, Steam Service will give them to the game it launches, bypassing UAC.

No it doesn't. The Steam client even prompts UAC for admin permissions to install redistributables.

What the Steam Service does is update Steam itself and 'repair' the permissions set on folders within the Steam folder, without needing UAC. It does this by running under the SYSTEM account, which gives it full system-wide access to anything and everything bypassing the entire Windows security model. (Which is a whole other problem and another case of Valve bungling.)

The Steam client only launches games with admin permissions if you launch Steam itself as an administrator.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

I still don't see a reason for ProgramFiles to not be the default directory. One thing that Valve has said in their FAQs is that it is not suggested to give admin privileges to Steam, so as long as one isn't do that, there should be no issues.

Yeah, so here's the thing: this type of problem with write permissions occurs when a launched game does NOT have the write permission that follows from administrative privileges. So games affected by this specifically have issues when they are NOT launched from an admin-elevated Steam client.

Usually its just a bit of configuration which refuses to save properly (I.e. resolution settings; controller input settings; etc.) but if such a game is coded poorly and does not catch exceptions that may be thrown from attempting to write to the file, it might just crash the entire game at start-up.

Plenty of older titles which have this problem. And some newer ones as well.
Like I said; mainly poor console ports, but there are probably some exceptions.

You may also be able to identify them because of a deterministic failure to pass Steam's file verification checks, needing to re-download a single file (the affected config file) each time.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

I still don't see a reason for ProgramFiles to not be the default directory. One thing that Valve has said in their FAQs is that it is not suggested to give admin privileges to Steam, so as long as one isn't do that, there should be no issues.

Yeah, so here's the thing: this type of problem with write permissions occurs when a launched game does NOT have the write permission that follows from administrative privileges. So games affected by this specifically have issues when they are NOT launched from an admin-elevated Steam client.

Usually its just a bit of configuration which refuses to save properly (I.e. resolution settings; controller input settings; etc.) but if such a game is coded poorly and does not catch exceptions that may be thrown from attempting to write to the file, it might just crash the entire game at start-up.

Plenty of older titles which have this problem. And some newer ones as well.
Like I said; mainly poor console ports, but there are probably some exceptions.

You may also be able to identify them because of a deterministic failure to pass Steam's file verification checks, needing to re-download a single file (the affected config file) each time.

Sounds like an issue the developers need to fix. One can always give permissions to the program as well, though yes, that does require a bit more knowledge then the average users.

And it seem few are effected, so again, I don't see why Steam should suggest a directory out-side the Program Files folder. The directory is there for a reason and is more of a standard for any program being installed.

[Zaflis]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

We are talking about programs with in the ProgamFiles directory and if them being put there gives them special permissions (admin rights, by the OP) and it doesn't.

No the opposite. Making any modifications in anything inside Program Files requires admin priviledges. Steam does not have admin priviledges but apps may or may not have some priviledge to edit their own files.

Some games do use "My Documents" or Appdata to store their saves and config files, but some do not. It makes bad situations for users.

One example is having an outside tool that would manage mods for example for a game installed in program files\steam\. It might need special admin rights to do anything, or Windoze might consider it an outside attack towards system files.

We can also say that file access issues are one of the most common problems related to steam gaming, and this is the only reason to it.