STARFORCE?? Does STEAM install STARFORCE whenever it was originally used?

[RF72]

Hi, I wonder wether STARFORCE is installed with those games that originally had it. (e.g. a bunch of Meridian4 games, UBI soft, etc.)
I tried to find this info, but didn't find anything conclusive.

Is there's any conclusive/official statement by STEAM, (or any user-based research) that can bring a conclusive answer for all games, or at least for individual titles, whenever I buy & install through Steam?

The games I'm interested atm are the ones in Meridian4 sales bundles.
And for individual Meridian4 titles:
Nostradamus: The Last Prophecy
The Egyptian Prophecy: The Fate of Ramses

Also:
Black Mirror & Still Life 2 (Still Life 1 had Starforce, I read)


Since it's Weekend, I assume nobody on the game company websites would reply until the sales are over.

Perhaps others also are interested in insight this Weekend?
Thanks a ton for any helpful replies, and sry if I missed any conclusive info. I spend hours trying to find the info without true success, and my eyes are hurting... I think Steam site could include this info more openly, and making it easier to find...

[Kargor]

As always, Steam doesn't care what games do.

You'll have to research this for every game that you're interested in.

[RF72]

Great answer! Just the info I needed to make informed decisions.
Thanks a ton for the helpful reply, Kargor!

I've noticed that Starforce has been very dodgy with CD/DVD burners and system alterations.
So I'll never install a game using Starforce. I bet that's why many games are ridiciluously cheap, since they use Starforce. Seen it before.
Syberia I & II had it, and I'll check with the other Meridian4 games etc. now.

[wuddih]

what is starforce? it cant be an additional drm because that has to be mentioned on the storepage and that is the publisher/developers duty to set it.

[RF72]

Starforce is a 3rd party copy protection, that has been used in some well-known game-companies releases. Mostly in the past, that's why I was asking here, since STEAM sells several of those titles here.
It seems like STEAM & Meridian4 etc. failed to mention it at all on the game pages, just like Kargor stated.

OR was Kargor wrong, and perhaps the Meridian4 games etc. had it removed for the Steam releases??

To answer your question, wuddih:
Starforce is the copy protection that caused the most outrage from legit customers. It has been said to ruin lots of people's CD/DVD-burner hardwares. I too had severe system failures after installing an old game using Starforce, way back. And it was an original CD/DVD.
I'm old enough to recall the original "boycott Starforce movement", and to me and many others, it really seemed justified.

Still Life 2 and Nostradamus: The Last Prophecy both had Starforce in original releases too.
I assume most if not all the old Meridian4 games had it. A shame, since otherwise I'd like to buy some.

If you do a search engine search, the first page has negative views on Starforce included, such as:
http://www.glop.org/starforce/

[Spawn of Totoro]

http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_3rd_Party_DRM_on_Steam

Going by this list, it looks like there are only two titles with Starforce on Steam.

When searching for Nostradamus: The Last Prophecy and Starforce, I can find no reference to them both in the same article. From what I can find, the game is stated as DRM free on several sites.

As Starforce would have been listed on the store's page as a 3rd party DRM, I do not believe those games you listed use Starforce.

[RF72]

Hey thanks for the reply again! Very interesting
So are you're saying that DRM-free ALWAYS (amongst other things) means NOT installing ANY 3rd party copy-protection (such as Starforce, etc.)?

What I meant in my initial statements info/fact is that most of the games I mentioned ORIGINALLY used Starforce for original (boxed versions) releases, back then that is.

I had no clue whatsoever if Steam installs have removed Starforce or not.
So that's why I asked.
The first reply, made by Kargor also indicated it still was used for Steam installs. (?)
But I still can't tell, since you guys give different claims than him, it seems.

I need to be positive starforce isn't still included for Steam installs, before buying any of those games. Not trying to be disrespectful to anybody of course.

Different websites claims that e.g. Syberia I & II (or at least S2) used it, as well as multiple other Meridan4 games etc.
Some games are not included in all lists, and I don't know which one to trust most. Just because it's not listed doesn't mean it can't be there. I'd prefer any conclusive statements from Steam that it isn't, as opposed to worst case scenario - That any control and/or removal wasn't checked properly by Game publisher and/or Steam.

There are some "Boycott starforce" lists still online, I think...

oh. update: Here's another Steam forum thread about Syberia I & II (although I wasn't interested in those two games myself)
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2749029

This thread too indicates that Steam may remove the 3rd party copy-protections before offering it on the website. But I still don't regard it as conclusive.
So are you're sure it's without risk to jump on any sales that doesn't mention any DRM or 3rd part copy protection? Thoughts? Link to official Steam statement? Thanks a ton in advance!

[Spawn of Totoro]

Steam/Valve doesn't remove 3rd party DRM, that is up to the developer.

If there is 3rd party DRM, it will be stated on the store page. If there is none stated, then it won't use 3rd party DRM.

DRM-free was in reguards to other sites. It is when there is no DRM at all. I am not sure if that includes the version on Steam. Sometimes Steam does sell the DRM-free version, but they don't state it as such. Most games only use Steamworks as their DRM.

If you want to know about a specific game, it is best to ask in that game's game hub. People who own the game can tell you if any 3rd party DRM is installed.

[RF72]

Yes it's only Starforce that I'm worried about, not any other copy protection system that I know of.
This 2nd reply of yours indicates brought new important info, and makes me believe that I really should check each game individually first. Just like I suspected.
Some games removed Starforce after the first inclusion, I recall.
So for those games, I assume Steam installs will use such latest release versions. So I think your two replies are not contradicting in nature.

Thanks again for the helpful mentions!

[Kargor]

Originally posted by RF72:

The first reply, made by Kargor also indicated it still was used for Steam installs. (?)
But I still can't tell, since you guys give different claims than him, it seems.

That's because I didn't say that. I told you that Steam doesn't care what games do, and that you'll have to research it for every game you're interested in.

The Spawn more or less just did this research for you, although with a different starting point -- he tried to find out which games on Steam use Starforce, rather than checking individual games.

In general, it's impossible to state things like "All games on Steam..." or "No game on Steam...", simply because Steam doesn't enforce things one way or the other. In your example, this means that publishers can most certainly remove useless copy protection schemes when putting things on Steam -- but Steam isn't going to force them either, as they allow additional DRM to be used on games.

In fact, I remember a report about a game that was put on Steam and was actually popping up a message to insert the CD :-) That came up when Steam opened the floodgates and allowed every trash game into the store.

Of course, I only remember Starforce as being a brutal copy protection for disks, so using that on a download-title would kind of require the publisher to silence it as there is no disk. Thus, removing it might be the easier option, since any form of reasonably brutal copy protection protects against getting disabled to prevent cracks from just flipping that switch :-)

[RF72]

thanks for the new clarification, Kargor, and sry if I misunderstood your first post!
In general, Steam does seem to be more stable and customer-friendly nowadays, judging by some forums. But it was long ago since I was active on Steam, so I'm kind of a newbie these days. Best to take all measures to really ensure avoiding starforce, I felt.)

Your points make a lot of sense too though.

I agree any disk checks for a legit digital purchase would be flawed beyond words, so I could assume it never would be there nowadays (as opposed to the example you gave)
I emailed meridian4 support just now. Judging by your thread replies here, I kinda expect them to give me the green light to stop worrying about Starforce all together, since they most likely would have been wise enough to remove it from all digital releases. We'll see.

And for original boxed releases - Again, some games might be mentioned using starforce on some lists and websites, and not on other lists/websites.

I noticed some other Steam customers were worried about Starforce & Starfall (I think), only to receive some calming info in that case)

[RF72]

correction (I think)
Still Life & Syberia series were developed by Microïds, they say. Not sure why they are included in the Meridian4 bundle, or why it was called that. Meridian4 seems more like an online store rather than a game developer/publisher to me.
Not that I care that much, but I thought I should mention this to be fair.
I emailed Microïds support too now.

[HLCinSC]

Usually they are listed on the store page(at least for major ones like Uplay, GFWL, Rockstar Social Club, etc..), and if not they are almost always mentioned in the game's EULA/ToS which there should be a link for on the store page.

[Coffee]

None of those games you listed have starforce on Steam.

[RF72]

Ah yes, now I see such game warnings on a game page for the first time, so I know a bit better what I'm looking for.

So if the game page does not include any of the two kinds of warnings below, would that be an insurance that the Steam version is guaranteed to not install Starforce?

"Requires agreement to a 3rd-party EULA"
"Warning: This title uses 3rd party DRM (Rockstar Social Club)"


I read that Black Mirror series used Starforce for boxed releases for instance.
And on the Steam game page, it says:
"Requires agreement to a 3rd-party EULA"
http://store.steampowered.com/app/286480/?snr=1_7_7_151_150_1


I did a search for "Rockstar Social Club" on the Steam website (thanks for the hint), came up with Max Payne 3, and there it was:
"Warning: This title uses 3rd party DRM (Rockstar Social Club)"
http://store.steampowered.com/app/204100/

To me, DRM info and the case of Steam versions with/without Starforce is still a bit confusing... Thanks for your helpful input!