on the edge of getting banned from refunds

[chunky]

ok i know this seems like im abusing the steam refund system but i promise im not. i am very bad at making decisions and i purchase things without properly thinking. recently i refunded like 5 games in 4 months 3 of those games being because my system met the minimum specs but not recommended (the graphics sucked). i got a warning from steam underneath my last refund saying something along the lines of 'you have been doing a lot of refunding recently, please read reviews or other info about the game before purchasing'. would steam let me refund another game without taking away my refund permission? the warning i got was only 2 weeks ago although it never mentions that i could get banned.

[Satoru]

Цитата допису Sour Dz:

How long do refunds take? I am waiting on a refund to wallet, which i assumed would be instant once approved, as it would by any 'competent' company. But this is Steam.

Refunds to wallet take longer because the underlying funds must be verified before they’re made available since only wallet funds can be used on the market. It’s a fraud verification mechanism.

Also note that refunds to credit cards take several days to clear no matter where you do a refund or what store you’re using. If you’re using a debit card your actual funds won’t be usable for several days. This isn’t a steam thing it’s a bank thing.

[The Oncoming Storm]

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

The fact that you're not WISHING to abuse the system does not mean you aren't. Intent means NOTHING.

I suggest you change your ways, and research BEFOREHAND because if you continue in your ways you will be looking at a refund ban, and you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

I'm going to give you a bit of advice by anecdote here.

I'm an old git in his fifties. I've been enamoured with games since the mid 1970s, Apart from one brief period in the 80s, I NEVER sell games. I have thousands and around 80 working consoles and computers.

And you know what else? I haven't bought a single game where I didn't know EXACTLY what I was getting into in DECADES.

So if I can do it, you can.

I would guess your biggest problem is patience. I guess you see something new, and make an assumption of what it's about from the limited initial data, and you jump in without waiting.

THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

It takes nothing to adapt your style to similar to what I do. I have a nose through the store usually weekly, to see what's on sale and so on (I generally only buy digital games on sale). I scribble down any that interest me on face value.

When I've been through the store, I then take that list and Google reviews. Start at Metacritic and move on from there. If unsure about certain aspects of the game, I also include Youtube reviews.

In extreme cases, I can go even further, but those two steps above should be enough to halt the mistakes you're making.

Once you've got into a routine with this, you will not be making those mistakes again.

Trust me here, the only person who#s going to suffer by using the refund feature to essentially demo games is you.
Lastly, please do not take offence at my comments. I'm trying to help you, not have a bash at you. If you need any more advice or think I can help you change from some more tips or tricks about buying games, I can happily point you in the right direction. I've got years of experience from buying rare records and collecting books too. There's tricks that are VERY similar.

Hey man... Don't forget, back in the 80s and 90s when everything was based on magazine reviews, we used to get to play demo's before buying the game. A luxury the modern gamer doesn't have. They have a 2 hour window, during which time the timer starts even if the game won't. A demo would let you do a level or get to a certain point. If steam allowed their games to be played like that, shutting down the game after the time elapses, or developers start doing demos again. Let's not forget that the company aren't the victim here. It's the Consumer, once again, nibbling at the crumbs the corporation sprinkle down so we squabble amongst ourselves. Once upon a time the consumer was in charge. They were old days, but they were the golden age. More demos before purchases I think.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Цитата допису The Oncoming Storm:

Hey man... Don't forget, back in the 80s and 90s when everything was based on magazine reviews, we used to get to play demo's before buying the game. A luxury the modern gamer doesn't have. They have a 2 hour window, during which time the timer starts even if the game won't. A demo would let you do a level or get to a certain point. If steam allowed their games to be played like that, shutting down the game after the time elapses, or developers start doing demos again. Let's not forget that the company aren't the victim here. It's the Consumer, once again, nibbling at the crumbs the corporation sprinkle down so we squabble amongst ourselves. Once upon a time the consumer was in charge. They were old days, but they were the golden age. More demos before purchases I think.

I recall those magazines costing $10 and may have had the disk stolen from it.

They were also paid by the developer/publisher, so their reviews couldn't be trusted.

The demos (if you even got the disk) were rarely true to the game (if you even purchased it) and more often then not, I just played the demo over and over, with out even considering purchasing the game.

As a consumer, I am happier now then back then. I can do more research into what kind of game it is and aspects that I like or don't like (too many different endings is a not for me). I can see what the advanced mechanics are like. I can know about bugs past the time a demo would allow me to play and what other users think about the game. Far more information at my fingertips then having to play a demo for a game I may no even buy.

When gaming moved form a nich to mainstream, we knew it would be treated like any other mainstream product. That is what we have Indi developers for these day, yet people demand AAA games, so they get the AAA experience.

I consider now to be more of a golden age. Demos were not the best thing for me or the industry. There is a lot more one could focus on from back then that was far better then demos.

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису The Oncoming Storm:

Цитата допису crunchyfrog:

The fact that you're not WISHING to abuse the system does not mean you aren't. Intent means NOTHING.

I suggest you change your ways, and research BEFOREHAND because if you continue in your ways you will be looking at a refund ban, and you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

I'm going to give you a bit of advice by anecdote here.

I'm an old git in his fifties. I've been enamoured with games since the mid 1970s, Apart from one brief period in the 80s, I NEVER sell games. I have thousands and around 80 working consoles and computers.

And you know what else? I haven't bought a single game where I didn't know EXACTLY what I was getting into in DECADES.

So if I can do it, you can.

I would guess your biggest problem is patience. I guess you see something new, and make an assumption of what it's about from the limited initial data, and you jump in without waiting.

THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

It takes nothing to adapt your style to similar to what I do. I have a nose through the store usually weekly, to see what's on sale and so on (I generally only buy digital games on sale). I scribble down any that interest me on face value.

When I've been through the store, I then take that list and Google reviews. Start at Metacritic and move on from there. If unsure about certain aspects of the game, I also include Youtube reviews.

In extreme cases, I can go even further, but those two steps above should be enough to halt the mistakes you're making.

Once you've got into a routine with this, you will not be making those mistakes again.

Trust me here, the only person who#s going to suffer by using the refund feature to essentially demo games is you.
Lastly, please do not take offence at my comments. I'm trying to help you, not have a bash at you. If you need any more advice or think I can help you change from some more tips or tricks about buying games, I can happily point you in the right direction. I've got years of experience from buying rare records and collecting books too. There's tricks that are VERY similar.

Hey man... Don't forget, back in the 80s and 90s when everything was based on magazine reviews, we used to get to play demo's before buying the game. A luxury the modern gamer doesn't have. They have a 2 hour window, during which time the timer starts even if the game won't. A demo would let you do a level or get to a certain point. If steam allowed their games to be played like that, shutting down the game after the time elapses, or developers start doing demos again. Let's not forget that the company aren't the victim here. It's the Consumer, once again, nibbling at the crumbs the corporation sprinkle down so we squabble amongst ourselves. Once upon a time the consumer was in charge. They were old days, but they were the golden age. More demos before purchases I think.

Erm, no. Not quite.

We did indeed have that back then, but only on FEW games. It's quite the opposite. It was FAR harder back then to evaluate a game.

If you were lucky and the game was a massive triple A endeavour, then sure, a demo may well be out there. But there were FAR, FAR more games that not only didn't get demos, but never got a mention in the magazines either, so ALL you had to go on was either what it said on the box or a friend's recommendation.

So no, it was far worse back then.

Nowadays even with games that don't have demos, how come I have been able to not buy a single game that I didn't know EXACTLY what I was letting myself in for? If this is the case, then the tools I have right now are adequate in any case.

As for your comment about the consumer having power, well that depends on where you are in the world. Here in Britain, our consumer rights are pretty damned good. In America though, I understand it's far worse. But again, that ain't a game industry thing - that's a government thing.

So no your conclusions are completey twisted.

[Jack Schitt]

Цитата допису cheeseplease420:

ok i know this seems like im abusing the steam refund system but i promise im not. i am very bad at making decisions and i purchase things without properly thinking. recently i refunded like 5 games in 4 months 3 of those games being because my system met the minimum specs but not recommended (the graphics sucked). i got a warning from steam underneath my last refund saying something along the lines of 'you have been doing a lot of refunding recently, please read reviews or other info about the game before purchasing'. and i know i should have listened to that but i couldn't help myself and i purchased a game called dino run dx because i remembered playing it as a kid. unfortunatly the games runs threw adobe air which is known for not being trustworthy and i also saw a post of someone getting a trojan virus threw the game. would steam let me refund the game without taking away my refund permission? the warning i got was only 2 weeks ago although it never mentions that i could get banned.

Here are steam's official Refund Policies:

https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

ABUSE
Refunds are designed to remove the risk from purchasing titles on Steam—not as a way to get free games. If it appears to us that you are abusing refunds, we may stop offering them to you. We do not consider it abuse to request a refund on a title that was purchased just before a sale and then immediately rebuying that title for the sale price.

Read that page thoroughly.

It would be of great benefit to you to do all you can to evaluate a game before buying it. Your best option is to gain control over yourself and quit allowing yourself to make impulse purchases without thoroughly thinking before doing; read reviews, go to youtube and find videos of gameplay, videos of reviews of the game, do an internet search for issue reports and reviews and read them (there are a ton of gaming sites that post very detailed game reviews). If you want to keep the ability to request and get refunds in the future it is your only option to do those things.

That said it is fact that Steam personnel are very lenient and understanding. People make mistakes, they're not going to whack at you for trying out a game you think you might like to see if your system is able to run it or not. In most cases if a refund request is denied by the automated system if a person contacts support and has a reasonably good reason for wanting the refund they grant it.
"In most cases". I'm not sure they will still do that if you do end up getting yourself flagged as 'no more refunds'.

So study and look in to them before buying. Otherwise you may end up spending a ton of money on a ton of games you never play. I might have a total of 200 PC video games between my 2 steam accounts and store-bought cd's. I really only play a handful of them. Granted, I'm not a hoarder but I also don't throw much of anything out. I keep all of the original boxes for all of my gadgets (in case I move), and especially for things like games I don't throw them out because you never know. I might want to play them some day or maybe, some day, having the original orange box will be a high-priced collectors item I can sell on eBay and retire wealthy from selling 20 years from now. lol!

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису cheeseplease420:

thanks everyone for the info! its clear that i had the wrong idea about how refunds work morally and i should probably think of every game i buy as unrefundable. ill try to do more research into games beforehand as all the games i ended up keeping where games i put a lot of research into. ill only refund games when they constantly crash or have viruses. also sorry about not being able to respond to everyones reply's i was sleeping and i just woke up.

Not a problem. You're being very understanding and that's a good thing.

Just to add to what I said before, Metacritic is a great starting point, but I would NOT take any notice of their review scores, as scores tell you almost nothing.

What I mean by starting there is to look up a game on there, and it'll list various publication's reviews (I wouldn't bother with user reviews as they're always hyperbolic and ridiculous on the whole). Just have a nose at the publication's reviews and soon enough after checking a number of games out, you'll start to see which publications jibe with what you want to know.

The same really applies for Youtube. Searching for say "Skyrim review" will lend you a whole host of repsonses, and again after checking a few games out, you'll likely find reviewers who gel with you.

What I would also add is that you should also try to find reviewers that are complete OPPOSITE of your views as they are equally helpful. Many a game I've drawn as inconclusive before, but a reviewer who dislikes what I like has swayed my decision.

Basically, it's going to be a bit of extra work at the start until you begin to build up a pool of places you trust.

And as always, never overlook the simplicity of a pen and paper. Dead easy to just note down good reviewers for future reference.


Good luck.

[Muppet among Puppets]

Цитата допису cheeseplease420:

its clear that i had the wrong idea about how refunds work morally

I would say technically.

As you choosed to refund it, you were not about to buy it in reality.
The only factor you caused is action to revert your action.

Цитата допису cheeseplease420:

i should probably think of every game i buy as unrefundable.

And therefore wait for the right price. While you look and make sure.
This prepares you in general.

[SpawnCap]

I felt bad for refunding two purchases in one day, even though I have made hundreds of purchases over the past decade. I refund to my wallet because it isn't an issue that I need the money back for something else, I will still buy games with it. One was because of sale a day after I purchased at full price, and another was I was just expecting too much out of my i5 2500 processor.

I am not going to make a habit of it though, i usually talk my self out of making purchases I don't need, like another game added to my library of 1000 games (library of console and PC games combined)....? Well, maybe I'm wrong after looking at my Steam account... :D

[The Giving One]

Цитата допису cheeseplease420:

ill only refund games when they constantly crash or have viruses.

That should not really be a very commonly seen issue, games having "viruses" unless you are doing things to allow your computer to become infected with them.

You can't and don't get viruses from Steam downloads of games, and this also makes me think you don't have real time scan exceptions for your games, as well as Steam, in your antivirus program.

That can also maybe cause crashes. So that's two huge red flags right there to your apparent problems of having to refund games, and both of those are easily solvable if so.

[crunchyfrog]

Цитата допису SpawnCap:

I felt bad for refunding two purchases in one day, even though I have made hundreds of purchases over the past decade. I refund to my wallet because it isn't an issue that I need the money back for something else, I will still buy games with it. One was because of sale a day after I purchased at full price, and another was I was just expecting too much out of my i5 2500 processor.

I am not going to make a habit of it though, i usually talk my self out of making purchases I don't need, like another game added to my library of 1000 games (library of console and PC games combined)....? Well, maybe I'm wrong after looking at my Steam account... :D

That's absolutely the right approach.

You felt bad about doing it, which means you didn't want to but had exhausted possibilities. That's very much what it's for. Not only that, I seriously doubt you'd fall foul even with refunding twice in one go. Simply based on the fact you have over 1000 games and you don't do this often.

Of course, we can only speculate somewhat on that part as we're never going to know what metrics and formulae they use, but I seriously doubt they'd do so for you, or we'd get an awful lot more angry posts on here.

For myself, I have some 1100 games, at least half of which were bought directly on Steam (the rest through Humble Bundle and such). I have refunded once, I think, but it may have even been twice. I just can't recall.

On that occasion it was Block n Load (if I've got the name right) - a game I was looking forward to, bought almost on release as it was discounted, and I played it once before it would no longer work. Turned out it didn't like 64 bit systems and would just run that one time and that's it.

Not wanting to wait to see if they fixed it, I refunded. Funnily enough, that was before the refund policy was a thing.