After the new update i get a BSOD error every time i launch steam.

[Akkryon]

Steam worked just fine this morning until i updated it and started getting a BSOD error about a file called "atikmdag.sys". I initially thought it was because of GPU acceleration as other discussions suggested, but i'm running other apps that use GPU acceleration without any problems.

[crunchyfrog]

sandis eredeti hozzászólása:

OK after a few days of fiddling, re-installing Windows I got it fixed (now who's fault is this??).

The fix was to right click C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vulkandriverquery.exe and C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vulkandriverquery64.exe and go to properties and compatibility tab.
Then select Change settings for all users and check the checkbox Run as Administrator for both of the files.

To my opinion this is a total Steam failure.
Support replies that we should contact Microsoft support, which is of course an absolute joke.
Everything was working for many people before the update form 29th of August.
I registered 3 steam updates since 29th of August and none fixed the issue.
No reply from Steam support since yesterday, where I asked them to stop telling me to ask Microsoft for support and get me to 2nd level Steam support (I asked nicely).
I totally blame Steam here as this is FOR SURE their fault.
Not a driver issue. At all. Changing properties on their own executables to make this work is solely pointing to the fact, that this is Steam's fault.
Get me wrong in this.

That doesn't demonstrate it's a Valve failute at all, not in the slightest.

As others have said on the many threads over this, it's merely because of not supporting old out of date stuff. That's it.

There is no evidence it's Valve's fault specifically. YOu wold need to do a FAR better job to demonstrate that.

[sandis]

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

sandis eredeti hozzászólása:

OK after a few days of fiddling, re-installing Windows I got it fixed (now who's fault is this??).

The fix was to right click C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vulkandriverquery.exe and C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vulkandriverquery64.exe and go to properties and compatibility tab.
Then select Change settings for all users and check the checkbox Run as Administrator for both of the files.

To my opinion this is a total Steam failure.
Support replies that we should contact Microsoft support, which is of course an absolute joke.
Everything was working for many people before the update form 29th of August.
I registered 3 steam updates since 29th of August and none fixed the issue.
No reply from Steam support since yesterday, where I asked them to stop telling me to ask Microsoft for support and get me to 2nd level Steam support (I asked nicely).
I totally blame Steam here as this is FOR SURE their fault.
Not a driver issue. At all. Changing properties on their own executables to make this work is solely pointing to the fact, that this is Steam's fault.
Get me wrong in this.

That doesn't demonstrate it's a Valve failute at all, not in the slightest.

As others have said on the many threads over this, it's merely because of not supporting old out of date stuff. That's it.

There is no evidence it's Valve's fault specifically. YOu wold need to do a FAR better job to demonstrate that.

Well provided, that vulkandriverquery.exe is an executable created by valve, that casues BSODs, then whose fault is that? Nvidia? Microsoft? If I - as you say use old stuff, where is a list of hardware that is actually supported by the steam clent for Windows? I did not find any. Maybe I failed searching such compatibility list, please post a link if such thing exists.

[Elucidator]

@crunchyfrog
It seems you missed the point on 'old out of date stuff'
Windows 8 and 8.1 have no newer drivers. They're not outdated, they just stopped renewing and updating them unlike 7 and 10, due to their lower userbase and at microsoft's request. To 8 and 8.1, these older drivers are the most recent. Microsoft oddly however still supports 8 and 8.1, though they stopped supporting Windows 7.

When a driver doesn't update their API remains the same, meaning support should be available for years without any issues.

The executables make the system crash, therefore it is the executables which are at direct cause.

Is it because of programming? You can only determine that after checking system file integrity, hardware integrity, latest drivers. Then everything should be according to as-is. So- with an API remaining the same, latest drivers, latest updates, no system fails, no errors anywhere, executable launch causes a crash, no doubt it's because of flawed programming.

Everything else has been checked.
Turning 'run as admin' flag up causes Steam to skip force executing these optional feature executables, because Steam has no administrative rights and can therefore not execute them.
If you run them manually the system fails.

How and why? Because they try to use Vulkan. Vulkan is a deep level GPU support API. They try to access and load stuff in the Hardware preserved section of Windows RAM manager using both windows kernel shell API commands and Vulkan API. However the assigned sections shouldn't be accessed. Windows gets confused or the driver it uses gets confused. It doesn't think anything wrong happens till Kernel Windows eventually sees a fail, which is when a soft reset or soft crash happens, closing the stuff before more serious stuff happens. (depends on the system which it is)

I don't need to prove anything.
but here, stuff to quickly scroll through: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/user-mode-and-kernel-mode
https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/
Any error reporter (even windows's internal one) will say "its vulkandriverquery.exe causing the problem"
Do you want to know the exact address in ram it wants to access? "0xFFFFFFFF" (-1) and "0x00000000" (0).
Here's a simple explanation https://troydhanson.github.io/virtual_memory.pdf

Once you have eliminated other possibilities:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gde6pmteG7s
Then only valve's bad decision making remains.

I could indeed still be wrong, but I would need to see why then if so.
In the mean time, make sure vulkandriverquery's aren't run automatically (and not manually) or move to epic games store, who apparently asks for less money from developers to publish stuff. So you may do them a favor.

Edit: I note again that they are optional. The feature they add is something optional, meaning they shouldn't run at all in the first place, but they do. They're part of the launch sequence now. Even if you exclude the driver problem / system fails, they shouldn't start up when you specifically tell the Steam Client that you don't want to participate in the Shader precaching thing, but it starts them up anyway.
(never mind that GPU providers precache shaders as well. Its a feature that just asks for problems and conflicts. Some users who have Windows 10 and updated everything reported memory issues because Steam kept downloading and loading in the same shader over and over... )

[crunchyfrog]

Elucidator eredeti hozzászólása:

@crunchyfrog
It seems you missed the point on 'old out of date stuff'
Windows 8 and 8.1 have no newer drivers. They're not outdated, they just stopped renewing and updating them unlike 7 and 10, due to their lower userbase and at microsoft's request. To 8 and 8.1, these older drivers are the most recent. Microsoft oddly however still supports 8 and 8.1, though they stopped supporting Windows 7.

When a driver doesn't update their API remains the same, meaning support should be available for years without any issues.

The executables make the system crash, therefore it is the executables which are at direct cause.

Is it because of programming? You can only determine that after checking system file integrity, hardware integrity, latest drivers. Then everything should be according to as-is. So- with an API remaining the same, latest drivers, latest updates, no system fails, no errors anywhere, executable launch causes a crash, no doubt it's because of flawed programming.

Everything else has been checked.
Turning 'run as admin' flag up causes Steam to skip force executing these optional feature executables, because Steam has no administrative rights and can therefore not execute them.
If you run them manually the system fails.

How and why? Because they try to use Vulkan. Vulkan is a deep level GPU support API. They try to access and load stuff in the Hardware preserved section of Windows RAM manager using both windows kernel shell API commands and Vulkan API. However the assigned sections shouldn't be accessed. Windows gets confused or the driver it uses gets confused. It doesn't think anything wrong happens till Kernel Windows eventually sees a fail, which is when a soft reset or soft crash happens, closing the stuff before more serious stuff happens. (depends on the system which it is)

I don't need to prove anything.
but here, stuff to quickly scroll through: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/gettingstarted/user-mode-and-kernel-mode
https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/
Any error reporter (even windows's internal one) will say "its vulkandriverquery.exe causing the problem"
Do you want to know the exact address in ram it wants to access? "0xFFFFFFFF" (-1) and "0x00000000" (0).
Here's a simple explanation https://troydhanson.github.io/virtual_memory.pdf

Once you have eliminated other possibilities:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gde6pmteG7s
Then only valve's bad decision making remains.

I could indeed still be wrong, but I would need to see why then if so.
In the mean time, make sure vulkandriverquery's aren't run automatically (and not manually) or move to epic games store, who apparently asks for less money from developers to publish stuff. So you may do them a favor.

Edit: I note again that they are optional. The feature they add is something optional, meaning they shouldn't run at all in the first place, but they do. They're part of the launch sequence now. Even if you exclude the driver problem / system fails, they shouldn't start up when you specifically tell the Steam Client that you don't want to participate in the Shader precaching thing, but it starts them up anyway.
(never mind that GPU providers precache shaders as well. Its a feature that just asks for problems and conflicts. Some users who have Windows 10 and updated everything reported memory issues because Steam kept downloading and loading in the same shader over and over... )

I realise my wording is clumsy, but you say it far better.

That IS what I was getting at.

[Frozz]

you re wrong

[sandis]

I at least hope, that the workaround will be seen by people who have this issue and apply it themselves. No matter where the cause lies (Valve, AMD/Nvidia, ...)

[Elucidator]

You know, I posted the work around in this thread even before you replied to it.
and I posted about it in several other locations.
I can't do much else... so hope is accurate.

Frozz eredeti hozzászólása:

you re wrong

very scientific.
no one is "right" indeed. (and its partly because of the language we use, which is often not accurate.)
but its out of context on this thread or my last post without any bases (on what), and looks like spam more or less. Again "I would need to see how.".

[sandis]

Elucidator eredeti hozzászólása:

You know, I posted the work around in this thread even before you replied to it.
and I posted about it in several other locations.
I can't do much else... so hope is accurate.

Frozz eredeti hozzászólása:

you re wrong

very scientific.
no one is "right" indeed. (and its partly because of the language we use, which is often not accurate.)
but its out of context on this thread or my last post without any bases (on what), and looks like spam more or less. Again "I would need to see how.".

Did not see the workaround, all kudos go to you of course ;)

[thlaylie]

Just upgrade to Windows 10. I won't lie, it was the worst upgrade I've ever done. From black screen with cursor to missing hard drives, be ready for anything and everything. I still don't know what fixed it, I walked away to pet my Cat for awhile. Then I went downstairs to attempt a Windows reversion and it had fixed itself. Steam now works like nothing was ever wrong. Sometimes you don't get a choice.

[The Giving One]

thlaylie eredeti hozzászólása:

Just upgrade to Windows 10. I won't lie, it was the worst upgrade I've ever done. From black screen with cursor to missing hard drives, be ready for anything and everything. I still don't know what fixed it, I walked away to pet my Cat for awhile. Then I went downstairs to attempt a Windows reversion and it had fixed itself. Steam now works like nothing was ever wrong. Sometimes you don't get a choice.

But not all computers or motherboards can support Windows 10, as there might not be drivers available.

Some manufacturer official websites specifically provide a list that give models that do not officially support Windows 10. Otherwise, it's a valid suggestion.

[AXD]

YEAH! I have the same problem.
But crash is marked as caused by dxgkrnl.sys

[AXD]

ReBoot eredeti hozzászólása:

That's a bug in your graphics drivers, guys. It's entirely possible that Steam triggers it, but the crash still comes from your graphics drivers. For starters, have you checked for newer version?

Absolutely all others software works well. Games, others game markets, browsers and etc. So it's the problem of new steam update!

[AXD]

crunchyfrog eredeti hozzászólása:

sandis eredeti hozzászólása:

OK after a few days of fiddling, re-installing Windows I got it fixed (now who's fault is this??).

The fix was to right click C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vulkandriverquery.exe and C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\bin\vulkandriverquery64.exe and go to properties and compatibility tab.
Then select Change settings for all users and check the checkbox Run as Administrator for both of the files.

To my opinion this is a total Steam failure.
Support replies that we should contact Microsoft support, which is of course an absolute joke.
Everything was working for many people before the update form 29th of August.
I registered 3 steam updates since 29th of August and none fixed the issue.
No reply from Steam support since yesterday, where I asked them to stop telling me to ask Microsoft for support and get me to 2nd level Steam support (I asked nicely).
I totally blame Steam here as this is FOR SURE their fault.
Not a driver issue. At all. Changing properties on their own executables to make this work is solely pointing to the fact, that this is Steam's fault.
Get me wrong in this.

That doesn't demonstrate it's a Valve failute at all, not in the slightest.

As others have said on the many threads over this, it's merely because of not supporting old out of date stuff. That's it.

There is no evidence it's Valve's fault specifically. YOu wold need to do a FAR better job to demonstrate that.

Everything except the updated steam client works well and it's not steam failure? Really? You have a totally strange logic dude.

[Elucidator]

sandis eredeti hozzászólása:

Did not see the workaround, all kudos go to you of course ;)

I rechecked my post, it seems I forgot three words in my post e.e;
I did mention it at least apparently correctly in the japanese there where I tried to translate it, but I forgot to add the three words of the specific property flags ('run as admin') to my 'english' section of the message.
.... sorry. ;sweat;
There was the link someone provided to one of my other posts in a different thread where it could have been grabbed in plain english though, but yeah I can see now how you missed it.

[MancSoulja]

AXD eredeti hozzászólása:

ReBoot eredeti hozzászólása:

That's a bug in your graphics drivers, guys. It's entirely possible that Steam triggers it, but the crash still comes from your graphics drivers. For starters, have you checked for newer version?

Absolutely all others software works well. Games, others game markets, browsers and etc. So it's the problem of new steam update!

If it was the problem with the new Steam update, tell me where all the other people are with the same issue?

There's over 100 million people using Steam.