Taking away OS support, Takes away our games. Dont do it!

[SnakeWildlife]

This move is abhorrent and out of touch with Steams users, let alone the LEGAL implications.

If you take away support for these operating systems, you take away games which are only compatible with those operating systems, from my library. Im a retro gamer so i play a LOT of old games which are incompatible with Windows 10 and above.

@Gabe Newell, please come to your senses on this one, this is the WRONG WAY to enhance the Steam Client.

Are you going to refund all the games in my library which are for older operating systems, or is your plan simply to pluck away my ability to play the games iv paid for? This cannot be legal. It is Sabotage.

Please stop the *Compatability Catastrophe* that is going to happen in 2024. I never wanted to downgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10, i was forced by DirectX discontinuation (even though 7 should have no problems supporting modern directx and games) and that has meant a lot of my library doesnt work.

By continuing to sell games that will not work , in most western nations this counts as a Sale of Defective Goods, which is illegal. When my working games are made non-functional by you, Microsoft or Google, this is a Sabotage of Goods and a breach of the Consumer Rights Act and Sale of Goods Act.

Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up because i have always been on the side of Valve...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you either owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased, or you stop this AWFUL plan to discontinue OS support. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move. There are so many things which Proton will never be able to fix.

This is the worst possible thing i could ever see Valve/Gabe going ahead with...so please, you have to undo this terrible decision whilst you still can. It's not right.

You are pushing people into believing physical copies of games are the only way to keep their games...but because of Securom we cant even do that. When you make it inconvenient for us to keep the games we have purchased, you may be forcing people into the piracy route, or as they may see it "Rightful reclamation of a purchased game".

If this goes ahead, i and many others won't have any choice, we will be shoved forcefully off of Steam in order to preserve compatability by any means necassary, and go download the games we purchased, i personally will go back to Physical storage, because that will be the only thing i can trust. The Disk/Disc/Cartridge/Drive In MY physical possession and in MY hand seems to be the only thing i can trust. *Physical copy, that i own and you cant steal away.*


VALVE, GABE, Please dont do this. Turn around.

Many of us have laid our full trust, and we have laid our massive game libraries, in you ....and this is how you're going to behave?
Do you believe that old games have no purpose to exist at all and you should disable our ownership of them by Compatability Disabling?
*That is not for you to decide!*
These games are NOT breaking because they are faulty. YOU are purposefully taking actions which lead to my games no longer working.
*YOU ARE DAMAGING MY GOODS*, which again, is ILLEGAL.

Please Gabe, i hope you're reading this....we need you to act, to change this around and find a solution! We need you to respond! Please dont do this!

I guess if you're going ahead with this, i should just refund this steam deck. If i cant trust you, i dont want it in my hands.

Now that i have my plea out there....lets talk about the Future.
Just drop Google and Microsoft dependancy with your software, GO FULL OPEN SOURCE with your Browser. Here's an idea:

Contact or even Hire the staff at Firefox instead, this is Steams opportunity to become peoples main internet explorer, and NOT have to disable compatabilities.

Degoogle yourself. Demicrosoft yourself. Keep compatability maximized. Rip out what isnt Valve's, and hire people who can replace what you lost. Everybodies happy, and you gain a massive market share of adrev that can be generated from becoming a prime Browser competitor in the field.

You have a Window here to fix everybodies worries....and GAIN massively from it. Dont shutdown OS support and do the possibly WORST thing you could ever do in 2024.

[wuddih]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย andreasaspenberg575:

i have several games that does not run in windows 10: castle of illusion, street fighter x tekken, shop heroes. then there is rise of legends which only works in single player in windows 10. finding all of them takes too long.

and finding easy fixes for all of them does not take much longer.

what ran on 7 will 99% run on win10/11.

[punchobastardo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Bee🐝:

they'll happily upgrade you for free

"Free" as with jumping on Google's model of collecting your data, and introducing ads. And "free" in the sense that you will not be the master of your PC anymore, it can be theoretically shut down remotely with a firmware update to the Pluton chip.

[ShelLuser]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Buckaragua:

Has onyone read and understand the initial post?
The problem are the games not running on windows 10, but on Windows 7.

I read the statement but chose not to believe it. How would OP know if he hasn't used Windows 10 yet?

Not to mention that I've heard such stories over and over again. Even Tombraider 1 (the original from the 80's) is said not to run properly on Windows 10 and while it does take a bit of tinkering (fair enough) it eventually runs perfectly.

Windows 10 came a long way with their compatibility modus.

(edit)

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย andreasaspenberg575:

i have several games that does not run in windows 10: castle of illusion, street fighter x tekken, shop heroes.

Castle is even verified for Steam deck, so you'll betcha that it can run on Windows 10. Tekken... I only know of 7 and 8, 7 runs on Windows 10 just fine. As for shop heroes... even though it's free I'm not going to bother trying because they want me to link my account. Still, according to what I'm reading in their community hub there shouldn't be much issues.

[Brian9824]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย andreasaspenberg575:

i have several games that does not run in windows 10: castle of illusion, street fighter x tekken, shop heroes. then there is rise of legends which only works in single player in windows 10. finding all of them takes too long.

Castle of illusion works fine on Windows 10 - confirmed on the forums - https://steamcommunity.com/app/227600/discussions/0/1642052612856355771/#c1642052612859707248

street fighter x tekken - also works on windows 10, its GFWL issues which require you to manually install it

The overwhelming majority of games will work perfectly fine on Windows 10.

[Mad Scientist]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Bee🐝:

they'll happily upgrade you for free

"Free" as with jumping on Google's model of collecting your data, and introducing ads. And "free" in the sense that you will not be the master of your PC anymore, it can be theoretically shut down remotely with a firmware update to the Pluton chip.

You can firewall entire domains. Go to really any major site with an adblocker that shows you all the trackers etc, you'll know what to blacklist.

I doubt Valve would want ads shoved in their client.

The firmware part is stretching it a bit too far.

[Wolfpig]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Buckaragua:

Has onyone read and understand the initial post?
The problem are the games not running on windows 10, but on Windows 7. I think steam is required then to deliver versions that run on windows 10 or refund the purchase price

No, Valve is not required to deliver games which run on a certain system or must get sure that older games would run on it.

There is a reason why developers state on which system (at the time they made the game) got tested and run.
Besides that, most games which run on Win 7 will run on Win 10 and 11 too, as the OS base is still the same, if not then it is not necessarily the fault of the used OS.

Fallout 3 for example had for a long time (or still....dont know) a warning box on the storepage that it might not run on Win 7 due to some stuff related to the game (i think).

[xBCxRangers]

"Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move".

I hate to say it, but i think you're right OP. A sincere question, has this ever happened? Win 98 i would assume (i'm mainly a console guy), is really when gaming went mainstream.

And yet many were able to get access, even today, and of course with exceptions, exceptions in why those games are still sold in the store, if new OS cannot play them, or not meant to play them, particularly given their plans come Jan, just a relative few months.

I personally never seen a situation, where games people bought at cost, can no longer play them.

It's always assumed you won't be able to play 'newer" games, and of course need to upgrade. But the need to upgrade, in ability to downgrade to get access to the games, many of them older, is something i never seen.

And we should never assume, companies cannot be sued. They're sued all the time, and the biggest corporations out there. This really should be looked at imo.

[Xasthur]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย nullable:

And then we can look forward to seeing people freak out over Windows 10 support ending around 2030.

"October 14, 2025".
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro

So, in two and a half years you all will be pretty much slaves to Micro$oft with MS Windows 11, which has TPM2.0 and will be soon™️ only running on CPUs with the integrated blackbox chip called Pluton, that will only be getting undisclosured firmware updates via Microsoft Update, having full access to your system by accessing the memory, in order to make your machine "more secure".

True.

In this case, if someone still wants to keep using Windows 11, it would probably be better to use any custom OS build without TPM 2.0, hardware limitations, Microsoft telemetry and online services.

Or IoT/LTSC version. But usually it also requires some tweaking.

But the only right choice is to join the Linux army before it's too late :)

[punchobastardo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Mad Scientist:

You can firewall entire domains.
The firmware part is stretching it a bit too far.

You don't know and won't ever find out what is being transmitted via the update mechanism, which is proprietary and sends data encrypted, unless you are saying one should block system updates as well. On top of that there's a whole bunch of necessary, interconnected proprietary services running in the background that you can't disable/block without affecting the stability -which is anyway hold together with duct and tape-. The Pluton chip is independent of your OS and ofc network aware so you can't block anything there. This means a hacker could hack the updating route and take control of your system, "Microsoft & gov friends" reading all your data, having your encypted keys stored in their servers, etc.

That's the price of upgrading for "free", losing your freedom for "free" beer.

[Brian9824]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย xBCxRangers:

"Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move".

I hate to say it, but i think you're right OP. A sincere question, has this ever happened? Win 98 i would assume (i'm mainly a console guy), is really when gaming went mainstream.

And yet many were able to get access, even today, and of course with exceptions, exceptions in why those games are still sold in the store, if new OS cannot play them, or not meant to play them, particularly given their plans come Jan, just a relative few months.

I personally never seen a situation, where games people bought at cost, can no longer play them.

It's always assumed you won't be able to play 'newer" games, and of course need to upgrade. But the need to upgrade, in ability to downgrade to get access to the games, many of them older, is something i never seen.

And we should never assume, companies cannot be sued. They're sued all the time, and the biggest corporations out there. This really should be looked at imo.

Nothing to look into, the exact same thing has happened REPEATEDLY. Windows 95, 98, and XP. All discontinued, all no longer running with Steam. All perfectly legal and reasonable for Steam to do so.

Your given no guarantees that Steam will continue working on antiquated hardware/software. Nor is any company under any law to support software that the CREATOR of has already abandoned. Steam can't continue supporting software if Microsoft which owns the software won't even support it...

Your free to talk to a lawyer and they will tell you the same thing. Your options are either update your OS or lose access.

[Komarimaru]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย xBCxRangers:

"Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move".

Never happening, licenses exist for a reason. Any developer can pull their game from you, for any reason they desire. So no, you're not a legal expert in this regard.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย xBCxRangers:

I hate to say it, but i think you're right OP. A sincere question, has this ever happened? Win 98 i would assume (i'm mainly a console guy), is really when gaming went mainstream.

And yet many were able to get access, even today, and of course with exceptions, exceptions in why those games are still sold in the store, if new OS cannot play them, or not meant to play them, particularly given their plans come Jan, just a relative few months.

I personally never seen a situation, where games people bought at cost, can no longer play them.

No, they are not right, and neither are you. I can't play my MX Spectrum games, unless have a spectrum MX. Thankfully I do, since a collector of consoles and technology.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย xBCxRangers:

It's always assumed you won't be able to play 'newer" games, and of course need to upgrade. But the need to upgrade, in ability to downgrade to get access to the games, many of them older, is something i never seen.

And we should never assume, companies cannot be sued. They're sued all the time, and the biggest corporations out there. This really should be looked at imo.

Next time don't assume. Maybe start reading license terms, and platform terms for use. No one can sue Valve for keeping their platform secure, due to people like you who cannot access their games anymore, due to not updating to a system that can access it.

[Subzy]

Windows 10 is spyware. Literally.
So no, I won't be installing it.

[d3str0y3r]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย xBCxRangers:

"Im not a legal expert... and I hate to bring it up...but if this creates some kind of class action lawsuit, you owe everybody the games you have disabled people from playing, which they have purchased. I honestly believe you should not, and cannot be allowed to get away with such an anticonsumer move".

I hate to say it, but i think you're right OP. A sincere question, has this ever happened? Win 98 i would assume (i'm mainly a console guy), is really when gaming went mainstream.

And yet many were able to get access, even today, and of course with exceptions, exceptions in why those games are still sold in the store, if new OS cannot play them, or not meant to play them, particularly given their plans come Jan, just a relative few months.

I personally never seen a situation, where games people bought at cost, can no longer play them.

It's always assumed you won't be able to play 'newer" games, and of course need to upgrade. But the need to upgrade, in ability to downgrade to get access to the games, many of them older, is something i never seen.

And we should never assume, companies cannot be sued. They're sued all the time, and the biggest corporations out there. This really should be looked at imo.

Just like for when they dropped support for 98, xp, vista there will be no class action lawsuit that goes anywhere.

All Valve would have to do is point the the SSA which EVERY steam used agreed to.

C. NO GUARANTEES

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE CONTENT AND SERVICES, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement


Valve or for that matter any company are not required by ANY law to continue to support an old out dated OS.

Steam isn't the first program that dropped support for windows 7 and it won't be the last.

[Mad Scientist]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Mad Scientist:

You can firewall entire domains.
The firmware part is stretching it a bit too far.

You don't and won't ever find out what is being transmitted via the update mechanism

That's a download service, for starters.
It's like saying Steams H/W survey does nefarious things when it just collects relevant data. The real money in data is often browser searches & social media use, which is why you should be aware of what not to use.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

unless you are saying one should block system updates as well.

I always use other people to see what goes wrong in newer versions, it's a habit I got from where I worked since I know some updates can brick things, temporarily or permanently.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

Also the Pluton chip is independent of your OS

You mean the Trusted Platform Module? That's more of a focus for Servers and Win11. It doesn't affect the ability to block network traffic.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

and ofc network aware so you can't block anything there. This means a hacker could hack the updating route and take control of your system, "Microsoft & gov friends" reading all your data, etc.

You can use software or even networking hardware with software control to block entire domains from being able to communicate to or from your system, I do that all the time to save headaches especially for inconveniently timed updates so critical systems remain online without forced reboots when unoccupied.

Make sure wherever you're getting your information from, that it's not some non-credible youtuber.

[punchobastardo]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Mad Scientist:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

You don't and won't ever find out what is being transmitted via the update mechanism

That's a download service, for starters.
It's like saying Steams H/W survey does nefarious things when it just collects relevant data. The real money in data is often browser searches & social media use, which is why you should be aware of what not to use.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

unless you are saying one should block system updates as well.

I always use other people to see what goes wrong in newer versions, it's a habit I got from where I worked since I know some updates can brick things, temporarily or permanently.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

Also the Pluton chip is independent of your OS

You mean the Trusted Platform Module? That's more of a focus for Servers and Win11. It doesn't affect the ability to block network traffic.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย punchobastardo:

and ofc network aware so you can't block anything there. This means a hacker could hack the updating route and take control of your system, "Microsoft & gov friends" reading all your data, etc.

You can use software or even networking hardware with software control to block entire domains from being able to communicate to or from your system, I do that all the time to save headaches especially for inconveniently timed updates so critical systems remain online without forced reboots when unoccupied.

Make sure wherever you're getting your information from, that it's not some non-credible youtuber.

sigh...

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2022/01/04/ces-2022-chip-to-cloud-security-pluton-powered-windows-11-pcs-are-coming/