Gambling: Steam are going to close all the gambling csgo sites?

[NOTdeduction]

Hello,
What do you think about the gamble sites? all the csgo gamble sites!
I heard that almost all the Team Fortress 2 gamble sites are now closed.
You think like steam are going to close all the ''illegal'' sites?

[Washell]

Steam, or more correctly, Valve can't close gambling sites. The best they can do is lock the accounts associated with them.

[NOTdeduction]

Originally posted by Washell:

Steam, or more correctly, Valve can't close gambling sites. The best they can do is lock the accounts associated with them.

You know that they are giving them api key or something like that to make the people sign in trought the site..

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

If the gambling sites disappear, good riddance.

[cinedine]

Apart from the inability of shutting down third party sites: the sites are not doing something illegal. They use the very same loophole Valve uses to allow for the whole crate system in the first place. If they were to shut them down on this basis, they would admit that their system is wrong, too.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by cinedine:

Apart from the inability of shutting down third party sites: the sites are not doing something illegal. They use the very same loophole Valve uses to allow for the whole crate system in the first place. If they were to shut them down on this basis, they would admit that their system is wrong, too.

If it was deemed illegal, then many companies would either go under or have to change their models.

For example:

Most F2P MMOs
Blind Boxes
Magic the Gathering
Basball Cards
Any kind of "random" card pack
Hearthstone
ect.

So something like that would turn several industries on their heads.

All for any kind of random boxes that have to be purchased or a key bought.

[NOTdeduction]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by cinedine:

Apart from the inability of shutting down third party sites: the sites are not doing something illegal. They use the very same loophole Valve uses to allow for the whole crate system in the first place. If they were to shut them down on this basis, they would admit that their system is wrong, too.

If it was deemed illegal, then many companies would either go under or have to change their models.

For example:

Most F2P MMOs
Blind Boxes
Magic the Gathering
Basball Cards
Any kind of "random" card pack
Hearthstone
ect.

So something like that would turn several industries on their heads.

All for any kind of random boxes that have to be purchased or a key bought.

Hey,
You might know if valve is going to do something about this gamble sites?

[Zeugziumy]

What TF2 gamble websites?

[NOTdeduction]

Originally posted by Zeugziumy:

What TF2 gamble websites?

sweetstakes.tf + saloon.tf closed, yesterday they shut down the sites!

[Zeugziumy]

Originally posted by L.:

Originally posted by Zeugziumy:

What TF2 gamble websites?

sweetstakes.tf + saloon.tf closed, yesterday they shut down the sites!

Never heard of these. "saloon" sounds familar, though.

[Washell]

Originally posted by L.:

sweetstakes.tf + saloon.tf closed, yesterday they shut down the sites!

A farewell
Well, this is it. After much consideration, we've decided to permanently shut down Saloon.tf. We didn't come to this decision easily, and trust us when we say this is hard for us -- but it's something that had to happen.

Please withdraw all of your items. We'll give you as much time as possible (at least a month), but at some point, we'll have to shut down and forfeit what items are left.

It's been wonderful hosting you all. Take care.

Doesn't sound like "big evil valve shut us down! Boohoo!". My guess: Valve getting sued, the crackdown on fantasy game leagues in the US, and the increased reporting on the suspected billions floating around in TF2 and CS:GO gambling made them cash out before getting arrested and trialed for running an illegal gambling operation.

Or they were outcompeted by other sites and going broke. Just as plausible.

[cinedine]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Hearthstone

This is probably the best example of doing it right.
The cards are completely void of value. You can't trade them in anyway or turn them into money (which is the whole problem with Steam's skins) while at the same time no card is useless. You can use them to craft the exact card that you want. Which makes it far less of a gamble.


Skins are a completely different beast. A skin you don't use - either because you already have one of it or a "better" one - is literally useless. All you can do is selling them on the market or try to trade it, but the supply far exceeds the demand in many cases. Making it dead weight on your account.
You could easily come around this issue if you allow to trade up your skins within Steam.Combine 3 of the same skin to the next better quality, combine 3 random skins into a random one, ... like the TF2 crafting system works.

---

The really sad thing is that Valve so obviously weasels out of it all and uses technicalities to cover their arses. How can they claim skins have no value while at the same time say that duplicating them for hijacked accounts devalues them? How can they say they have no value while at the same time allowing them to be traded on the market for real money equivalency? How can they say they have no value while they are the sole source of scamming and hijacking? How can they say they have no value while almost every "I got scammed"-post includes something along the lines of "I just lost 100 bucks"?
Yes, they technically have no value assigned to them - by Valve. But it's evidently that community assigns a value to them and this is supported (and welcome) by Valve.

[Purple Tentacle]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by cinedine:

Apart from the inability of shutting down third party sites: the sites are not doing something illegal. They use the very same loophole Valve uses to allow for the whole crate system in the first place. If they were to shut them down on this basis, they would admit that their system is wrong, too.

If it was deemed illegal, then many companies would either go under or have to change their models.

For example:

Most F2P MMOs
Blind Boxes
Magic the Gathering
Basball Cards
Any kind of "random" card pack
Hearthstone
ect.

So something like that would turn several industries on their heads.

All for any kind of random boxes that have to be purchased or a key bought.

errrr no they dont use the same loophole that all your examples give (to the best of my knowledge anyway, i've never heard of a few before) so they would be uneffected. in all of your examples you get something for your money, what isn't known but you do get something. skin gambling is using the argument that skins are not currency and have no real value so no money is exchanging hands everything is fine*

if skin gambling is illegal or not i have no idea, although i would like to think it is. the reason these sites are still operating is probably quite simple. the law hasn't caught up yet

*whilst most use this excuse im aware of some sites that have a proper gambling license or are in the process of getting one and do everything correctly including not allowing people from certain countries to use their site and having resonable steps to ensure your of legal age to gamble if your country allows it (in others words more than just a tick box to say you are)

[SteveHeist]

On CS:GO, the Gambling Issues, and how to fix Steam to prevent it in the future

(I want to say before I start, I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this, so, admins, if it isn't, place it where it is supposed to go. I am new to this)

So, as almost anyone following The Know, Gameranx, 3kliksphilip, WarOwl, Tmartn, ProSyndicate, or any of a laundry list of other people on YouTube, Twitch, or other services, CS:GO gambling site issues have finally come to a head. There are two main instances in this, which I am going to summarize here for recap:

Firstly, Valve themselves are currently under a class-action lawsuit stating that they knew about and ignored these sites, essentially allowing these with full knowledge of what was happening. Whether or not this is true is yet to be seen.

Secondly, Tmartn and ProSyndicate, two YouTube personalities with over 12 million subscribers between the two of them, have recently been discovered to have not just sponsorships from CSGOLotto.com, which was not necessarily disclosed well to begin with, they actually are the president and vice-president of the company, as well as co-owners, which was NOT disclosed AT ALL before it was found by users such as HonorTheCall and h3h3productions here this weekend. They've owned the site since December of 2015. Tmartn's first CSGOLotto video was in November of 2015, where he states "[A friend] has been putting forward this new site called CSGOLotto, and I decided to check it out, and won ... a small pot ... I think you guys should check it out." NOTHING FURTHER ON HIS AFFILIATIONS WAS GIVEN. The site did not even appear on his LinkedIn account, which houses a list of his business endeavors, including EnVyUs, a professional CS and CoD team.

Although I have given far more information on the second topic, it is not the main of this thread, this is to suggest various fixes that Valve could implement to end the need for gambling sites, or any external use of Steam API for the trading or selling of items (henceforth, the doing of this I will refer to as "cracking" the system).

Firstly, and most obviously, ban any and all CSGO gambling site bots. This may be difficult, but I would recommend not having CSGO gambling sites in your username on Steam given the blanket-style Valve likes to take to mass action (so you may get caught in the crossfire). As a further Steam user note, remove yourself from Steam Groups involved with CSGO Gambling (I know CSGOWild has one literally called "CSGO Wild") to prevent getting hit with the blanket ban in that form. On Valve's end, emptying the banned bot's inventories into the Steam Community Market couldn't hurt either, as the users on Steam are the ones being scammed, not the bots (sell the items through a Valve developer's Steam account if that is needed.)

Secondly, rebuild the Steam Community Market from the ground up. Remove the item value limits going up (it's what, some $500 USD on the top-end? Do away with that, the AWP | Dragon Lore is ~$1,000 [just assume I use USD in my money-markers, I am American], more if the item is Souvenir). In doing this, you also need to remove the Steam Wallet cap to accomodate for this. Then external selling sites do not need to exist, so no-one will "crack" the system again for this purpose. Then bots will go out of necessity.

Thirdly, and probably in a manner of speaking converse to Valve's wishes, Valve Corporation needs to purchase enough in the gambling sites to be able to force them all to shut down instantaneously and simultaneously. This finalizes their non-existance.

Now, further "down-the-road" actions may be needed, but that is the here-and-now actions Valve would need to take to end this issue.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by L.:

Hey,
You might know if valve is going to do something about this gamble sites?

I would have no idea on such matters, nor would I even want to make a guess.

Remember, moderators don't work for Valve. We are only told thing about the same time as any other user.

Originally posted by Purple Tentacle:

errrr no they dont use the same loophole that all your examples give (to the best of my knowledge anyway, i've never heard of a few before) so they would be uneffected. in all of your examples you get something for your money, what isn't known but you do get something. skin gambling is using the argument that skins are not currency and have no real value so no money is exchanging hands everything is fine*

if skin gambling is illegal or not i have no idea, although i would like to think it is. the reason these sites are still operating is probably quite simple. the law hasn't caught up yet

*whilst most use this excuse im aware of some sites that have a proper gambling license or are in the process of getting one and do everything correctly including not allowing people from certain countries to use their site and having resonable steps to ensure your of legal age to gamble if your country allows it (in others words more than just a tick box to say you are)

Buy an item, get a random item. Get a crate, buy the key to open it and get a random item.

Same concept and you still get something for your money.

I wasn't referring to the skins gambling, but to the legitimate use of such a system that Valve has.
-----
I do agree some regulation of these skin gambling sites is needed, but I do not think Valve should be the ones doing it and they shouldn't be accountable for the actions of a 3rd party. If anything, those sites need proper gambling oversite, such as they have in Vegas, such as the Nevada Gaming Commission.

[BossGalaga]

Instead of the tower of text, you could have just started with a short summary and a link to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8fU2QG-lV0

Yes, Valve is being sued by some affluenza kid who lost all the money he spent on his mom's credit card by gambling his skins away. But he didn't have any complaints until he lost all of his virtual cutlery.

Here's my super secret solution to stopping skin gambling.

wait for it...

Don't gamble. That's it. That's the secret.

Valve isn't your Mom and Dad. Everyone has already seen masses of people on the forum losing their over all the new trade restrictions. And you want Valve to micro-manage you even more?

That's basically saying, "I can't help myself because I'm a huge freakin' idiot."

And fyi, here's some shocking news. ALL skin gambling/lotto sites are a scam. Even if they aren't rigging the betting, they're still taking a cut of everyone's skins and then some.

It's like trying to sue the NFL because people bet on sports games. It ain't the NFL's fault people are stupid.

Just my 2 cents.