Illegal Refund Policy - Australian Users

[[NOD]Kane]

As per the recent Federal Court case (ACCC v Valve), Valve has misrepresented your rights under the Australian Consumer Law in not offering you a refund for games.
If you think like me that they should not be allowed to get away with this then help me raise awareness but dontating to my go fund me cause.

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We are going to run advertising campaigns informing Australian users about their rights under the ACL and about the recent court action by the ACCC against Valve.
The intention being that you should be aware of this before making any purchasing decisions with Valve in the future.

[Matt]

No, you can't use the forums to advertise your go fund me account...

[Satoru]

The irony is that steams refund policy is BETTER than your rights in Australia

You cannot return a game because "you don't like it" in Australia

You can on steam

[Narcoleptic Marshmallow]

"If you think Valve evil give me money"

The most shocking thing here is that a moderator didn't immediately delete this nonsense.

One of these days Valve will give up on the Australian market entirely and you will have to make do with $120 games from local sellers.

[The Giving One]

What I find interesting and frustrating at the same time is we never saw all this nonsense over the refund policy until after there was a refund policy. Well, nowhere nearly as much that is. Back when there was a general "no refund" policy, users just seemed to accept it.

Now it seems in so many instances, as usual in life, that if you give an inch, people want a light year.

[76109108007942031]

Since Steam doesn't use Aussie prices they apparently don't need to follow Australian laws, so there really isn't anything you can do about it.

[[NOD]Kane]

Originally posted by Sir Illic:

Since Steam doesn't use Aussie prices they apparently don't need to follow Australian laws, so there really isn't anything you can do about it.

Except the federal court in Australia dismissed that claim when Valve tried to use that as an excuse. And why towards the end of september the court will decied on the penalty for the most recent case.

However fines can only do so much, making people aware of the issues, which is what I am trying to do may cause people to vote with their feet and purchase from alternate providers. This will be the only way valve will listen in the long run.

[76109108007942031]

Originally posted by NODKane:

Originally posted by Sir Illic:

Since Steam doesn't use Aussie prices they apparently don't need to follow Australian laws, so there really isn't anything you can do about it.

Except the federal court in Australia dismissed that claim when Valve tried to use that as an excuse. And why towards the end of september the court will decied on the penalty for the most recent case.

However fines can only do so much, making people aware of the issues, which is what I am trying to do may cause people to vote with their feet and purchase from alternate providers. This will be the only way valve will listen in the long run.

What advantages do the Australian refund laws have? Steam's are pretty darn good, so I doubt we're missing out on much.

[The Giving One]

Originally posted by NODKane:

However fines can only do so much, making people aware of the issues, which is what I am trying to do may cause people to vote with their feet and purchase from alternate providers. This will be the only way valve will listen in the long run.

By "alternate providers", would those providers by any chance be those that are more costly and don't have a refund policy at all ?

You know what they say..."Be careful what you wish for."

[Narcoleptic Marshmallow]

Originally posted by NODKane:

Except the federal court in Australia dismissed that claim when Valve tried to use that as an excuse. And why towards the end of september the court will decied on the penalty for the most recent case.

However fines can only do so much, making people aware of the issues, which is what I am trying to do may cause people to vote with their feet and purchase from alternate providers. This will be the only way valve will listen in the long run.

You're only forgetting the small fact that Valve does not, I repeat, DOES NOT have official business in Australia. That's why you buy your games in USD. It's a workaround Valve has been using not to be forced to stop selling to Australia for good.

And the only reason that happened was because the Australian government was upset they couldn't tax digital purchases, so they made some stuff up to get Steam out until they could run new laws about digital goods taxes.

You don't seem like you go outside much, but try it one day and tell me how much games cost in your local stores, fully taxed by your perfect government, compared to the price Steam has for them, even in converted USD. These are your "alternate providers".

I still don't know what you're trying to accomplish with this except "pls donate to my gofundme" which, again, I'm shocked that a moderator saw this and didn't immediately got rid of it.

[wuddih]

Originally posted by NODKane:

Except the federal court in Australia dismissed that claim when Valve tried to use that as an excuse. And why towards the end of september the court will decied on the penalty for the most recent case.

source of that september poop?

[username12121]

Originally posted by Elly:

Originally posted by NODKane:

Except the federal court in Australia dismissed that claim when Valve tried to use that as an excuse. And why towards the end of september the court will decied on the penalty for the most recent case.

However fines can only do so much, making people aware of the issues, which is what I am trying to do may cause people to vote with their feet and purchase from alternate providers. This will be the only way valve will listen in the long run.

You're only forgetting the small fact that Valve does not, I repeat, DOES NOT have official business in Australia. That's why you buy your games in USD. It's a workaround Valve has been using not to be forced to stop selling to Australia for good.

And the only reason that happened was because the Australian government was upset they couldn't tax digital purchases, so they made some stuff up to get Steam out until they could run new laws about digital goods taxes.

You don't seem like you go outside much, but try it one day and tell me how much games cost in your local stores, fully taxed by your perfect government, compared to the price Steam has for them, even in converted USD. These are your "alternate providers".

I still don't know what you're trying to accomplish with this except "pls donate to my gofundme" which, again, I'm shocked that a moderator saw this and didn't immediately got rid of it.

Valve does, according to Australia's Federal Court, conduct business in Australia.

Originally posted by full article linked below:

Justice Edelman concluded that making each of these representations involved conduct in Australia by Valve and that, in any event, Valve was carrying on business in Australia.

“The Federal Court’s decision reinforces that foreign based businesses selling goods and/or services to Australian consumers can be subject to Australian Consumer Law obligations, including the consumer guarantees,” ACCC Chairman Rod Sims said.

“In this case, Valve is a US company operating mainly outside Australia, but, in making representations to Australian consumers, the Federal Court has found that Valve engaged in conduct in Australia,” Mr Sims said. “It is also significant that the Court held that, in any case, based on the facts, Valve was carrying on business in Australia.”

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/federal-court-finds-valve-made-misleading-representations-about-consumer-guarantees

As for whether Valve/Steam's current refund policy is better or worse than the regular Australian policy is up for debate. However it's a rather important matter for any country to ensure that relevant laws are observed by all and that outside concerns don't attempt create any precedents by writing their own set of rules with respect to their business dealings in that country.

[The End]

Originally posted by NODKane:

As per the recent Federal Court case (ACCC v Valve), Valve has misrepresented your rights under the Australian Consumer Law in not offering you a refund for games.

It was simply just the wording, Valve has fixed that long time ago.


Here is what accc has about refund.

Exceptions to guarantees
Consumer guarantees do not apply if you:

got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it
misused a product in any way that caused the problem
knew of or were made aware of the faults before you bought the product
asked for a service to be done in a certain way against the advice of the business or were unclear about what you wanted

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund


You get a way better refund policy from Valve as it is now.

[76109108007942031]

Originally posted by Rockon:

Here is what accc has about refund.

Exceptions to guarantees
Consumer guarantees do not apply if you:

got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it
misused a product in any way that caused the problem
knew of or were made aware of the faults before you bought the product
asked for a service to be done in a certain way against the advice of the business or were unclear about what you wanted

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/consumer-guarantees

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund


You get a way better refund policy from Valve as it is now.

In other words, we shouldn't be drawing attention to this, since anything the government does to it will make it worse for us.

[The End]

It was Valves "no refund what so ever" that was wrong, they have to say "Refund is possible if product is broken or falsely advertised" they fixed that long time ago.

We have the best refund policy there is available, no other retailer offer what Valve offer (full refund no questions asked), but the more people complain the bigger chance that Valve choose to make it like GOG, they have no refund after download has started unless the product is broken beyond repair.

[The Giving One]

Originally posted by Rockon:

but the more people complain the bigger chance that Valve choose to make it like GOG, they have no refund after download has started unless the product is broken beyond repair.

THIS...this....right.....here.

And there was a user the other day that posted that Apple did exactly that in Europe , I think. Said they had a generous policy, and it got abused and complained about so much, they had to get rid of it.

But hey, as long as someone gets a few dollars back for thier game, who cares about anyone else, right ? (sarcasm)