was duel princess really banned from steam

[It just works]

if somebody knows why i would appreciate response

[my new friend]

cinedine a écrit :

my new friend a écrit :

Neither. Pegi doesn't have any information on the game Duel Princess on their site at all.

So?
Unless you want a physical release, you can self-certify under the IARC which doesn't result in an entry in the database. Same for USK, btw.
Golf Story for example doesn't have an entry either.

Is Golf Story on Steam? Is it also an adult themed game? Why does that matter if the answer to both is no?

[Brother Erxkum]

my new friend a écrit :

cinedine a écrit :

So?
Unless you want a physical release, you can self-certify under the IARC which doesn't result in an entry in the database. Same for USK, btw.
Golf Story for example doesn't have an entry either.

Is Golf Story on Steam? Is it also an adult themed game? Why does that matter if the answer to both is no?

You reply is confusing and makes no sense. He just added to the topic about the game not being on the online certification listing.

[my new friend]

Erxkum a écrit :

my new friend a écrit :

Is Golf Story on Steam? Is it also an adult themed game? Why does that matter if the answer to both is no?

You reply is confusing and makes no sense. He just added to the topic about the game not being on the online certification listing.

What happens with Nintendo has nothing to do with what Valve does/did and neither did the post I responded to.

[cinedine]

my new friend a écrit :

Erxkum a écrit :

You reply is confusing and makes no sense. He just added to the topic about the game not being on the online certification listing.

What happens with Nintendo has nothing to do with what Valve does/did and neither did the post I responded to.

A game can have a self-applied rating by filling a questionnaire. Doing so will grant you an official rating for the IARC members but will not result in a database entry for the services. So you saying the game has no entry in their database is actually irrelevant.

So when Erxkum said the game is 16+, it might be. And yes, it's for the Switch version as Nintendo actually supports the IARC process. As long as the planned Steam version doesn't differ it is also applicable.
So your reply of "Neither. Pegi doesn't have any information on the game Duel Princess on their site at all." To "which version are you talking about" is misleading and irrelevant.

[Leriko]

I think it's interesting, though, how Bullet Girls Phantasia has an uncensored Steam release and is much more raunchy than Duel Princess despite having a similar "erotic torture" system. Makes you think.

[JPMcMillen]

Leriko a écrit :

I think it's interesting, though, how Bullet Girls Phantasia has an uncensored Steam release and is much more raunchy than Duel Princess despite having a similar "erotic torture" system. Makes you think.

I have to agree with davidb11 that there may be going on here than what has been said publicly. Especially as there are much more adult themed games on the platform, I doubt that this was just a simple rejection from Valve. In fact, Valve may have had nothing to do with it and maybe the developer pulled it themselves and don't want to admit to it for some reason.

[Chika Ogiue]

crunchyfrog a écrit :

davidb11 a écrit :

That doesn't make any sense because it's on the Switch.

Again, they could have a sepearte build for that.

If they got licence from Nintendo early on and built the game according to the terms, it's entirely likely.

They will have a full build though they maybe thought they were going to bung on steam, and if that's the case, mabye they don't consider it worthy to make the amendments.

Remember, the Switch build is NOT a PC build.

It's simpler than that. Nintendo are still based in Japan. Unlike all the other major platform holders who are based in the US. As such, Nintendo are not applying US puritanical/"big tech" views on all markets.

Nintendo have, in fact, eased their stance on "adult" content, which is why, outside of Japan you can now have full nudity on the Switch -- as several games do. The only reason Japan is excluded from that is because CERO now have an issue with full nudity. In other words, as long as it complies with local rating board standards, Nintendo will almost certainly sell it.

Sony, Microsoft, and Valve on the other hand, have all cracked down on what content they allow on their platforms. And this mostly affects Japanese games regardless of their intended market.

Leriko a écrit :

If I was qureate I'd formally contest/appeal the rejection decision, assuming it actually happened, but I don't even know if that's possible.

There is no appeal. Once your game is banned, it's banned. Valve do not give you a chance to appeal nor do they fully explain why it was banned. In the rare cases a game has been given a second chance it's because the developer knew someone else at Valve and they went through them, but even that doesn't always work.

Leriko a écrit :

I think it's interesting, though, how Bullet Girls Phantasia has an uncensored Steam release and is much more raunchy than Duel Princess despite having a similar "erotic torture" system. Makes you think.

Valve have tightened their stance since then. The original Mary Skelter is on here uncut, too, but Valve still requested the same content be removed from the re-release hybrid Mary Skelter 2. Here's the problem though, unlike a ratings board, Valve are 1000% inconsistent. What was okay yesterday for ABC is now not okay today for DEF, but will be okay next week for XYZ.

As far as people can gather based on following the niche developers, one person at Valve reviews your game. They say yes or no. No one else looks at it. If they say no, that's it. You don't get a second chance. If you're lucky and you know someone else at Valve you can ask them to help out. They might. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

If you're really lucky they'll tell you that X won't be allowed and you can remove it before submission.

We're going to see far more games affected in the future and this will not improve until Valve clarify their content policy and install a proper system for review and appeal that takes into account a collective view and removes employee bias.

Now as far as the content in this game, remember it is a Japanese game initially designed for the Japanese market and complies with Japanese law. For console release this means no nudity, no graphical sex, no extreme or graphical violence. These are to comply with the indecency law and with CERO's ratings. Duel Princess, like many of Qureate games, are developed for console. They are not eroge*. This game was submitted to CERO (which is a requirement for selling digitally on consoles) and rated CERO D -- suitable for 17 and up.

Believe me, if the game wasn't actually submitted to CERO and it is being sold with a CERO rating, CERO would be blowing their top again. Which is exactly what happened with Assassin's Creed Valhalla when Ubisoft sold the PC version on their platform. It's also why several ratings went missing on Steam because those games also claimed CERO ratings without actual submission. Which is how we know Valve don't require proof of actual submission to a ratings board to sell.

*Eroge are not rated by CERO. CERO will not allow them on consoles. Eroge are rated by EOCS the actual ratings board for PC releases. The one that Valve should be using on Steam, being a PC based platform. EOCS allows nudity and graphic sexual scenes as long as they comply with the indecency law (hence the mosaics).

[crunchyfrog]

It just works a écrit :

is there any way we could ask valve directly ?
how they did it for hatred ?

Pointless, because they're not going to tell you, and you'd bebetter off asking the dev what they intend to do.

Maybe they would reconsider resubmitting it, or maybe they haven't even submitted it at all?

Nobody knows as no evidence has been shown. but there is a lot of myth here.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

So, on one hand, Steam has pretty lewd stuff in its catalogue already.

On the other hand, this just happened. https://jastusa.com/page/the-state-of-muramasa

So it's not exactly clear how things work, and that's why I think it's important to not jump to conclusions about what happened here.

[Aries Stellar]

Quint the Alligator Snapper a écrit :

So, on one hand, Steam has pretty lewd stuff in its catalogue already.

On the other hand, this just happened. https://jastusa.com/page/the-state-of-muramasa

So it's not exactly clear how things work, and that's why I think it's important to not jump to conclusions about what happened here.

Too bad we don't have someone clearly on the inside in Valve to tell us about what's been going on here and if it's one rogue employee behind what's been happening here as the rumors have suggested. Might have to see if we can send some emails and letters to squeeze an answer or a long winded non-answer from someone up in Valve. At least GOG is starting to play around with allowing more risque niche games on to their platform. Still, this is definitely going to have a chilling effect on the PC market if Valve doesn't address why they seemed to renege on their statement that they would be more hands off with curation and only ban a game if it was clearly illegal or blatant trolling. At this point there might be a situation similar to when Hatred originally got banned. People had to badger Gabe in order for him to step in and get the game unbanned.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Aries Stellar a écrit :

Quint the Alligator Snapper a écrit :

So, on one hand, Steam has pretty lewd stuff in its catalogue already.

On the other hand, this just happened. https://jastusa.com/page/the-state-of-muramasa

So it's not exactly clear how things work, and that's why I think it's important to not jump to conclusions about what happened here.

Too bad we don't have someone clearly on the inside in Valve to tell us about what's been going on here and if it's one rogue employee behind what's been happening here as the rumors have suggested. Might have to see if we can send some emails and letters to squeeze an answer or a long winded non-answer from someone up in Valve. At least GOG is starting to play around with allowing more risque niche games on to their platform. Still, this is definitely going to have a chilling effect on the PC market if Valve doesn't address why they seemed to renege on their statement that they would be more hands off with curation and only ban a game if it was clearly illegal or blatant trolling. At this point there might be a situation similar to when Hatred originally got banned. People had to badger Gabe in order for him to step in and get the game unbanned.

I'd say that the PC market is still fluid enough that if Valve just doesn't want to sell a thing then people can rather easily go to another store that does, so I don't think there'd be quite a "chilling effect". Also, these games are, to be fair, a bit niche in their appeal, and it's not uncommon for a different set of businesses to serve a niche better than some larger, more well-known business does. Valve's market share is large, but not absolute.

[Aries Stellar]

Really don't want to be forced onto GOG for the risque Japanese games. Their launcher isn't as polished as Steam, controller support is a mixed bag at best, they have no convenient phone app and there is the list of games where the devs will treat GOG buyers as second class citizens in a sense. For instance, A Hat In Time is basically gimped on GOG due to no mod support, can't do Online Party, the B-Side Soundtrack isn't available for purchase, and Vanessa's Curse can't work for the same reason why the GOG version can't run Online Party.

[Leriko]

Quint the Alligator Snapper a écrit :

I'd say that the PC market is still fluid enough that if Valve just doesn't want to sell a thing then people can rather easily go to another store that does, so I don't think there'd be quite a "chilling effect". Also, these games are, to be fair, a bit niche in their appeal, and it's not uncommon for a different set of businesses to serve a niche better than some larger, more well-known business does. Valve's market share is large, but not absolute.

Yeah, that's also possible, but it's also possible that piracy, in regards to these kinds of anime games, will once again run rampant outside of Japan due to servicing issues. Wasn't there a well-known Gabe quote regarding piracy in that vein? Somehow I'm detecting irony here. Also, the devs could easily release the game on DLsite, but next to no one in the west even knows DLsite is a thing so it's a tricky situation, indeed.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Aries Stellar a écrit :

Really don't want to be forced onto GOG for the risque Japanese games. Their launcher isn't as polished as Steam, controller support is a mixed bag at best, they have no convenient phone app and there is the list of games where the devs will treat GOG buyers as second class citizens in a sense. For instance, A Hat In Time is basically gimped on GOG due to no mod support, can't do Online Party, the B-Side Soundtrack isn't available for purchase, and Vanessa's Curse can't work for the same reason why the GOG version can't run Online Party.

Well FWIW this isn't the first time Steam has refused a visual novel. A Kiss for the Petals: Maidens of Michael was another case of this, from a few years back. Steam refused it, and GOG sells it.

Leriko a écrit :

Quint the Alligator Snapper a écrit :

I'd say that the PC market is still fluid enough that if Valve just doesn't want to sell a thing then people can rather easily go to another store that does, so I don't think there'd be quite a "chilling effect". Also, these games are, to be fair, a bit niche in their appeal, and it's not uncommon for a different set of businesses to serve a niche better than some larger, more well-known business does. Valve's market share is large, but not absolute.

Yeah, that's also possible, but it's also possible that piracy, in regards to these kinds of anime games, will once again run rampant outside of Japan due to servicing issues. Wasn't there a well-known Gabe quote regarding piracy in that vein? Somehow I'm detecting irony here. Also, the devs could easily release the game on DLsite, but next to no one in the west even knows DLsite is a thing so it's a tricky situation, indeed.

Piracy can be a thorny thing to discuss here, but yeah, you're right that GabeN famously commented on how Steam came up with a n effective way to compete with piracy, which was to provide better service. Heck, even the Steamworks page on DRM basically indicates that same idea.

[Aries Stellar]

Quint the Alligator Snapper a écrit :

Aries Stellar a écrit :

Really don't want to be forced onto GOG for the risque Japanese games. Their launcher isn't as polished as Steam, controller support is a mixed bag at best, they have no convenient phone app and there is the list of games where the devs will treat GOG buyers as second class citizens in a sense. For instance, A Hat In Time is basically gimped on GOG due to no mod support, can't do Online Party, the B-Side Soundtrack isn't available for purchase, and Vanessa's Curse can't work for the same reason why the GOG version can't run Online Party.

Well FWIW this isn't the first time Steam has refused a visual novel. A Kiss for the Petals: Maidens of Michael was another case of this, from a few years back.

True. It wouldn't be the first incident unfortunately. Also, just looked on GOG when Jast USA mentioned releasing Dead End Aegis on their store. GOG doesn't have Dead End Aegis Gaiden. Lol. Ironically, Steam has it but Jast isn't rushing to release the main game on here. If you want the full package, gotta go to Jast USA's store. Store's a bit of a mess though. Also, sales outside of a major holiday apparently don't exist on their store. Jesus.