steam banning visual novels again

[76561198305693217]

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/FlatClub#announcements/detail/1720840241716602727

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/FlatClub#announcements/detail/1720840241717835441

and it's after the introduce of adult content filters

[The nameless Gamer]

Count_Dandyman původně napsal:

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

But the characters in the scenes are usually of similar age, if there is material depicting a fully grown person having intercourse with a minor under the age of consent, of course I'll be against it and will not even think of supporting such content.

even if both are the same age it is still forbidden if that age is too young the root of this issue is a bunch of idiotic devs that wanted to make some quick easy money decided to start porting over Japanese games without first looking into the key difference in Japanese law that was the exact reason the more established port teams had avoided those ones in the first place.

A rather big case of "culture shock". Before porting the game, one should definitely do a cultural background check. Numerous cultures treat sexual themes very differently and the age of consent is varying from country to country. Touchy topic, to say the least.

[wuddih]

the "exploitation" is to make money with questionable sexual fetishes that involve moral and lawful illegalities on a globally unacceptable scale.

also nothing is banned, just rejected from one single storefront. there are dozens of other stores for such content. Valve just runs Steam on a global agenda, where such content can end in lawsuits really quick ... and i guess Valve has had enough being the headliner for stuff that is done by 3rd parties.

Valve can run their store however they want. the devs should be glad that they get at least an explanation now why it was rejected and literally nothing prevents them from changing their content to still release their products on Steam.

i mean if you make a story based game ... the sex scenes should be able to be cut down easily and you still have 90% of the content left, if not, then the priorities were probably not that much on the story.

[cinedine]

Count_Dandyman původně napsal:

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

That wasn't hard was it? Basically, it takes several minutes top to give a plausible explanation for the said denial. Merely slapping the label "child exploitation" onto it doesn't suffice, but nobody asks for an essay either (at least I hope they don't). As long as the justification goes beyond a two-word phrase and is a legitimate claim, it shouldn't leave room for argument.

So you decided to just ignore the part where I pointed out that "child exploitation" is the legal distinction that those laws are defined under then?

Steam listing child exploitation as the reason is simply the same method used by police and courts when they list a persons crime as murder. Its a simple shorthand method that saves time and effort.

Guess he wanted a bit more than "because law".
Which makes sense. Murder is a crime but depiction of murder is still ... fine? At least it's a whole lot more relaxed than anything involving minors. Sexual or violence related.

Fun fact: Star Wars Episode 1(?) is missing a second in the French version where Boba Fett's father is hittinghim with his helmet. That's how strict child protection laws can get.

[The nameless Gamer]

Another thing that makes me wonder: why the hell are so many of those visual novels set in high school environments? What's the appeal of that specific setting? How don't people get tired of that? Doesn't a story with adult, variably experienced characters open a wider playing field?

[Count_Dandyman]

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

Another thing that makes me wonder: why the hell are so many of those visual novels set in high school environments? What's the appeal of that specific setting? How don't people get tired of that? Doesn't a story with adult, variably experienced characters open a wider playing field?

Its the setting that sells best wider range ones might get customers it doesn't but it gets more customers then they do.

[Kargor]

cinedine původně napsal:

Fun fact: Star Wars Episode 1(?) is missing a second in the French version where Boba Fett's father is hittinghim with his helmet. That's how strict child protection laws can get.

I don't even remember any father/child in that movie -- even Darth Vader / Luke was revealed later, IIRC.

*However*, cuts like this may or may not have a legal requirement behind them. Sometimes they just made to be on the safe side, without having to go through courts and possibly get instructed to remove the scene anyway.

Which, while it makes sense from a business perspective, is kind of bad since it strengthens censorship: companies censor themselves to be on the safe side, so these laws are never even challenged in court, possibly going all the way up and getting them declared unconstitutional (I'd love to see that happening to the German law that forbids fighting Nazis in games, allowing Steam to cite legal requirements for their brutal enforcement of censorship on games like Wolfenstein).

[ReBoot]

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

ReBoot původně napsal:

It's not about exploiting the actual characters. It's about glorification of child exploitation. If a character is an erotic VN is drawn as she's 12 or so, it's pedophilia.

Exploitation by definition is usually taking unfair advantage of someone. Now, I am most certainly not in favour of depicting characters who just entered puberty in sexual intercourse, but "glorification of exploitation" would be depicting victims of traffiking and adults pressuring the said characters into sexual intercourse. There is no exploitation in two teens deciding to elevate their relationship to a physical one.

If it's between two teens, no issue. But can you make sure that such VNs a) get played only by teens and b) still AT LEAST depict teenage characters? It's rather often adult pedophiles dreaming about ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kids, not even teens. Even ignoring that, adaults playing a VN about ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ teens is still pedophilia.
Admittedly, the legal age (as in "it's not legally defined as pedophilia") in Japan is 15. But we're (well, most of us anyway as well as Valve's legal place of residence) not in Japan here.

[Count_Dandyman]

Kargor původně napsal:

cinedine původně napsal:

Fun fact: Star Wars Episode 1(?) is missing a second in the French version where Boba Fett's father is hittinghim with his helmet. That's how strict child protection laws can get.

I don't even remember any father/child in that movie -- even Darth Vader / Luke was revealed later, IIRC.

*However*, cuts like this may or may not have a legal requirement behind them. Sometimes they just made to be on the safe side, without having to go through courts and possibly get instructed to remove the scene anyway.

Which, while it makes sense from a business perspective, is kind of bad since it strengthens censorship: companies censor themselves to be on the safe side, so these laws are never even challenged in court, possibly going all the way up and getting them declared unconstitutional (I'd love to see that happening to the German law that forbids fighting Nazis in games, allowing Steam to cite legal requirements for their brutal enforcement of censorship on games like Wolfenstein).

The issue is most companies including Steam are worried about how even if they win a case like that it would cost a hell of a lot to fight it and the goverments involved would probably find a way to punish them for it so they prefer a follow the rules and let someone else bite the bullet for us approach.

[The nameless Gamer]

Count_Dandyman původně napsal:

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

Another thing that makes me wonder: why the hell are so many of those visual novels set in high school environments? What's the appeal of that specific setting? How don't people get tired of that? Doesn't a story with adult, variably experienced characters open a wider playing field?

Its the setting that sells best wider range ones might get customers it doesn't but it gets more customers then they do.

So it's much like any popular medium. Churn out large quantities of what sells best and take minimal risk for high profit. But what flies in one culture doesn't fly in some others, which is what the creators obviously disregarded and it came back to bite them. Perhaps that'll cause at least SOME of them to break away from the mentioned high school setting.

[Crazy Tiger]

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

Another thing that makes me wonder: why the hell are so many of those visual novels set in high school environments? What's the appeal of that specific setting? How don't people get tired of that? Doesn't a story with adult, variably experienced characters open a wider playing field?

Popular uniform fetishes are high school, french maid and cheerleader outfits. Two of them can be justified with a high school setting.

[NeuroticSlav]

Looked at Hello Good-bye and dont see any problem.
People who try to say anime/manga characters look certain age are idiots .
Only part that resembles human is their body .

[Count_Dandyman]

Hitsuran původně napsal:

Looked at Hello Good-bye and dont see any problem.
People who try to say anime/manga characters look certain age are idiots .
Only part that resembles human is their body .

While three of the girls in that one skirt the edge enough to get by as barely legal teens the problem comes with the younger 4th one Hiiragi Koharu.

[Start_Running]

Jonny původně napsal:

The material you're talking about is actually illegal in many nations, Actually owning such games is illegal, Rightfully so, What freak wants to read a fantasy novel where pretend underage girls are involved with any sexual activity? Tells me more about the people who want that...

You never Read Stephen Kings 'It' did you?

Crazy Tiger původně napsal:

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

Another thing that makes me wonder: why the hell are so many of those visual novels set in high school environments? What's the appeal of that specific setting? How don't people get tired of that? Doesn't a story with adult, variably experienced characters open a wider playing field?

Popular uniform fetishes are high school, french maid and cheerleader outfits. Two of them can be justified with a high school setting.

And if a highschool cheerleader moonlights at a Maid cafe then you basically got your trifecta.

Seriously though OP. Did you ever consider that the devs might actually be bending the truth to paint themselves in a more sympathetic light. You know like how howHow a pickpocket will say

"Oh I found that wallet on the sidewalk officer and was looking around to retrurn it to the nice gent what owns it I was."

Look. There are VNS that actually have explicit animated sex on Steam. They are still there because guess what the devs made damn sure to apply proper ratings and warnings to that ♥♥♥♥.

[tuszek]

The nameless Commander původně napsal:

Count_Dandyman původně napsal:

Its the setting that sells best wider range ones might get customers it doesn't but it gets more customers then they do.

So it's much like any popular medium. Churn out large quantities of what sells best and take minimal risk for high profit. But what flies in one culture doesn't fly in some others, which is what the creators obviously disregarded and it came back to bite them. Perhaps that'll cause at least SOME of them to break away from the mentioned high school setting.

Well it would fly in this culture no problem, if overcriminalisation was not a thing. Read up on it, there is literally enough wague laws on the books to literally get every single member of the populus for something (except toddlers) in to jail if everything was enforced to the letter. In an enviroment like that what kind of content cant be called legally gray?

You guys are comfortable throwing the content under the bus when its conveniently out of your interest, but how long until GTA will be banned? After all it has plenty of glorified criminal activity in it. How long until anything vaguely interesting will be cut?

Remember this is a tactic. Censorship uses the fringe sexuality and think of the children rethoric as the thin end of the vedge! Once its gained purchase they will not stop hammering on it and through that opening they will reach for ever more and more.

[cinedine]

Hitsuran původně napsal:

Only part that resembles human is their body .

This is - with a strong lead - the most idiotic argument I've seen so far.