Nightmare mode is easy they said. (mild chapter 3 spoiler)

[PrimeNum7]

Just spent 2 hours trying to beat the steel maiden and her goons in Juno fortress. I finally beat them by spreading the party out, using ranged based crafts and buffing Aureila for her 200 cp S-craft. I barely won that fight and was in the red for 90% of the fight. Hardest fight in the game so far, unless you count those optional solo fights with Rean. This is the third time when people on the forums and on reddit says game is easy on nightmare. Yet, just like in CS1 and CS2 to a lesser extent I get totally destroyed by bosses that I should steamroll if I abuse game mechanics.

Using sledgehammer (or for the Steel maiden fight Gaius' brave order) and rushing to break didn't work. In fact it didn't work for like 70% of boss fights and I had to use other brave orders like Iron will or Arts Celebration to survive. This strategy is overrated the enemies simply have too much health and deals too much damage.

Like seriously, are people going to say CS4 on nightmare is easy too? Whats it going to be next time?
CS1 = just use AT delay bro (C and other At delay immune bosses destroys you)

CS2 = just use eva tank and s-crafts bro (Ok, you might have a point. But for certain bosses like Mcburn your s-crafts only bring him down to half heath and your weak low damage evasion tank can't dodge his S-craft and Arts.)

CS3 = Just use break bro (Most bosses attacks first bringing you down to half heath at the start. And when you do start attacking you bring the break bar(s) down to like 60% lets not forget when they enrage and resets the bar entirely.

CS4 = Just use ______ bro (TBA)

Lets cut the BS, either i'm living in a alternate reality or just plain bad. But If I beaten CS1 and CS2 on nightmare and Sky SC on hard am I truly a bad player?

[Mr.Mostache]

Use damage reducing orders. From there, focus on taking down the goons first.
Use Platinum Shield to take the hit form the S-craft.

CS3 is way easier than CS1 and CS2/

[PrimeNum7]

Originally posted by Mr.Mostache:

Use damage reducing orders. From there, focus on taking down the goons first.
Use Platinum Shield to take the hit form the S-craft.

CS3 is way easier than CS1 and CS2/

Did you read the post?
Using damage reducing orders is always in my gameplan. But even with that you will still take massive damage from enraged crafts which will force you to heal. Platinum Shield? lol. you're basically hoping and praying Jusis don't get any status effects and is fast enough to get a turn before the steel maiden.

CS3 easier than CS1 and CS2? how? In CS1 and CS2 you can potentially one shot bosses with S-crafts if you're lucky. You can't do that with CS3. CS3 also have bosses that enrage on you and heal more frequently killing all your progress to a win.

[CLG]

Yeah this is by far the easiest kiseki game on nightmare. Milliums order is what like 80% damage reduction? I've been killing nearly every boss before they can even get multiple turns. I've been stacking speed and crit % bonuses on all my characters and i've just been breezing through the game. Being able to equip a sub master quartz just gives you so much extra free damage too. Orders are just super broken as well. The game just keeps adding more and more systems that make the game easier with every entry.

This games combat is just super easy to break and Falcom knew that, which is why a lot of the human bosses just have a 1 hit kill S Craft they will pull out of their ass.

[Kuro]

CS3 is a bit easier with the addition of Brave Orders. At points, Nightmare mode may seem a bit unfair but all it requires is multiple Brave Orders and cancellations. You really need to plan the usage of S-Crafts along with Kurt's speed BO. This game doesn't like it when you blow your S-Crafts too early in the fight. They should absolutely be used when you are certain that you could take out the enemy in conjunction with BOs within 2-3 turns. BTW, you be a dodge tank in CS3 and use BOs that shield you from enemy S-crafts and can break the game easily.

CS4 is waaaay harder than CS3 btw. Your BOs are nerfed, enemies can use their BOs to cancel yours. Breaking is much MUCH difficult. Enemies also have ARCUS unity attacks and heightened combat senses. Divine Knight battles can get ridiculously difficult as well.

[YueJin]

Just finished chapter 4 and apart from the solo battles have beaten every boss fight on the first attempt, nightmare of course. CS3 gives you insane items and combos almost right from the get go with how easy it is to obtain things like abyss shadow and evergreens.

Evasion tank trivalises 90% of the game just like it did in Ao and the earlier CS series. Although Lloyd is still number 1 for effectiveness, Sirus+Rage+Shining+Aegis is pretty funny and allows a character to solo most of the game. Even against Arianrhod, just use Sara's suction craft to group them, stick your rage evasion tank next to the stahlritter and enjoy unlimited BP from the crit counters.

If you want to approach the fight in a "fair" way there's still tons of options. Stack crit chance, use balance down and keep white decoration active the whole fight will let you whittle it down. Once the Stahlritter are dead Arianrhod doesn't have enough speed or damage to burst a party with Action 3 and abyss shadow's equipped outside of her S-craft. High level arts with no delay is another option although requires a bit more thought in how you set it up and isn't really the best option for this fight as it's harder to farm BP and she has an arts canceller. A character with Sophia equipped takes any worry away from her S-craft as you can just seraphic ring after she uses it. If you manage to break one of them you can use Sara's order on repeat to get an almost infinite amount of attacks.

I do appreciate what CS3's battle system wants to be and it is definitely a step in the right direction from CS1/2. You actually get a good amount of powerful options to use and a lot of freedom building your characters. If enemies had a higher break bar, slightly more speed a bit more HP and accelerate orders were removed, CS3 had the potential to be the most enjoyable trails entry for gameplay rivalling Zero and Ao. Sure you could gimp yourself by removing master quartz, not using brave orders or using suboptimal items but that just doesn't feel fun.

Also for the Arianhrod fight do yourself a favour, mute the in game music and play the ELHA remix of unfathomed force over the top. All of a sudden it feels like that fight is as epic as it should be, even if the gameplay lets her down.

[Mistfox]

One trick to use is to not break everyone at the same time. As long as even one person in your AOE hit zone is in Break, your critical will still trigger, which makes it a more reliable source of damage than an all up/all down scenario.

And even in nightmare, a Spirit Unification/Fatal Helix can still chop off a huge amount of the enemy's break bar.

Just don't spam S-crafts, the delay to your next turn is so long that any boss will chop you up before you can recover.

[BeastSlayer]

Are you playing Nightmare on first walkthrough?

[BeastSlayer]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

One trick to use is to not break everyone at the same time. As long as even one person in your AOE hit zone is in Break, your critical will still trigger, which makes it a more reliable source of damage than an all up/all down scenario.

And even in nightmare, a Spirit Unification/Fatal Helix can still chop off a huge amount of the enemy's break bar.

Just don't spam S-crafts, the delay to your next turn is so long that any boss will chop you up before you can recover.

Also, try to break the boss right after he acted so you can maximize the break time. In CS4 if you don't plan your breaking, a lot of enemies can recover right after you break them because the break delay / down time is much lessened.

Never use S-craft right at the beginning of the fight, save it later to finish the boss, always try to get the crit turn for the S-craft.

[Tiasmoon]

Nightmare mode is relatively easy compared to games like Sky, Sky Second Chapter, Zero, etc.
Its also considered easy because of how many game breaking mechanics there are. Breaking the difficulty is very easy in CS3, as easy or easier as it was in 1&2 where instead of Orders, Delaying was OP.

On its own I wouldnt consider Nightmare in CS3 to be easy. But if you still have relevant experience from CS1&2 nightmare clears, then it is very easy after the prologue and first chapter.

Using sledgehammer (or for the Steel maiden fight Gaius' brave order) and rushing to break didn't work. In fact it didn't work for like 70% of boss fights and I had to use other brave orders like Iron will or Arts Celebration to survive. This strategy is overrated the enemies simply have too much health and deals too much damage.

It sounds like you are doing it wrong. Are you using abilities with high break value? Are you boosting your stats (via quartz, but also buffs) so those hit for more break damage? Are you using +break quartz? Are you using Skuld? Are you using Rush for huge break damage?

Virtually every boss in the game past a certain point, can be break rushed. Even the mechas, provided you use the +CP items.

Lets cut the BS, either i'm living in a alternate reality or just plain bad. But If I beaten CS1 and CS2 on nightmare and Sky SC on hard am I truly a bad player?

You seem to overestimate your ability. Or rather, your understanding of the games mechanics.

Beating CS1&2 on nightmare isnt a feat. Beaten Sky SC on nightmare is a feat. Tho even that wouldnt prevent you from doing worse in this game if you just couldnt wrap your head around the new mechanics. They are different games after all. They share some mechanics, but also have vastly different ones. Which seems to be the main issue here: you dont understand orders, break and the value of increasing stats (like SPD) well enough.

For example, do you know that in this game you can actually gain a bunch of levels via battle-chains with large monsters (+kaleido)? The exp softcop is much higher then in the other games as a result. Levels give a few stats, most noticable: more speed, so if you are having issues it might be that you arent as high level as you could be.

For orders: if a boss gets more turns then that makes reflects or damage reduction orders that much more effective. Sledgehammer gives a huge break boost, but you also want to boost it further by using Master Quartz and regular Quartz, as well as using high break value abilities.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Did you read the post?
Using damage reducing orders is always in my gameplan. But even with that you will still take massive damage from enraged crafts which will force you to heal. Platinum Shield? lol. you're basically hoping and praying Jusis don't get any status effects and is fast enough to get a turn before the steel maiden.

You dont hope. You raise your characters speed high enough so that it happens. If you cant, then raise their health so they wont lose health their hp or more.

CS3 is considered much easier because Orders are just that good.

By the point in the game where you are, the game is already very easy.

[PrimeNum7]

Originally posted by BeastSlayer:

Are you playing Nightmare on first walkthrough?

Yes, been playing nightmare mode blind since CS1. If I didn't I would have a warped perception of difficulty like some of you guys.

Originally posted by Tiasmoon:

Nightmare mode is relatively easy compared to games like Sky, Sky Second Chapter, Zero, etc.
Its also considered easy because of how many game breaking mechanics there are. Breaking the difficulty is very easy in CS3, as easy or easier as it was in 1&2 where instead of Orders, Delaying was OP.

On its own I wouldnt consider Nightmare in CS3 to be easy. But if you still have relevant experience from CS1&2 nightmare clears, then it is very easy after the prologue and first chapter.

Yes Delay is OP in till it doesn't work (see the C fight in CS1).

It sounds like you are doing it wrong. Are you using abilities with high break value? Are you boosting your stats (via quartz, but also buffs) so those hit for more break damage? Are you using +break quartz? Are you using Skuld? Are you using Rush for huge break damage?

Virtually every boss in the game past a certain point, can be break rushed. Even the mechas, provided you use the +CP items.

Are you using abilities with high break value? Um yeah... Common sense tells me to Use crafts with a A or S rank on break.

Are you boosting your stats (via quartz, but also buffs) so those hit for more break damage? Even a buffed up Aurelia S-Craft can only bring the break bar down to like 60%. Of course I'm boosting stats with quarts and arts.

Are you using +break quartz? Are you using Skuld? Considering that Juna and Ash comes with it automatically, Yeah I'm using it. Are you suggesting everybody use skuld? If you do then you rule out other helpful quartz to saved my ass alot more than break.

You seem to overestimate your ability. Or rather, your understanding of the games mechanics.

Beating CS1&2 on nightmare isnt a feat. Beaten Sky SC on nightmare is a feat. Tho even that wouldnt prevent you from doing worse in this game if you just couldnt wrap your head around the new mechanics. They are different games after all. They share some mechanics, but also have vastly different ones. Which seems to be the main issue here: you dont understand orders, break and the value of increasing stats (like SPD) well enough.

For example, do you know that in this game you can actually gain a bunch of levels via battle-chains with large monsters (+kaleido)? The exp softcop is much higher then in the other games as a result. Levels give a few stats, most noticable: more speed, so if you are having issues it might be that you arent as high level as you could be.

For orders: if a boss gets more turns then that makes reflects or damage reduction orders that much more effective. Sledgehammer gives a huge break boost, but you also want to boost it further by using Master Quartz and regular Quartz, as well as using high break value abilities.

Like most of your post you just going to assume I'm not playing the game right even though I'm doing literally everything you posted. You say stack spd but doing so will decrease damage, then you say increase damage but doing so will decrease spd. Make up your mind. I did both and Rean (My fastest character) with spirit unification is still getting out sped by bosses. Ash (my heaviest hitter) with a gladiators belt have to spend multiple turns before finally breaking the boss (if he doesn't get killed or get a fatal status effect). Some other post mentioned evergreens and abyss shadows. Making those will burn up your U-materials not to mention it is no grail locket when it comes to status effects. Kurt has the highest Evasion in the party at 45%. He's also one of the weaker attackers in the party. Just like Fie in CS2, who I benched for the second half of the game do to the lack of damage.

I don't understand orders? I have used all of them. I use Iron will and arts celebration for defense/healing, I use raging fire when everybody is healed up. I use sledgehammer when a boss break bar is weak. I use wind blade or arts celebration when the boss has been broken.

You dont hope. You raise your characters speed high enough so that it happens. If you cant, then raise their health so they wont lose health their hp or more.

CS3 is considered much easier because Orders are just that good.

By the point in the game where you are, the game is already very easy.

For the speed thing, see above. The orders are not so overwhelming that it makes the game trivial. If it did then this post wouldn't exist.

[YueJin]

Make your evasion tank look something like this and you should have very few problems waltzing through virtually every fight. The 82% evasion is sort of unnecessary with shining around but I find it funnier that way.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2085000747

For damage output you could try something like this. With this set up, diamond nova has essentially no cast time or AT delay after use, crits for 15-20,000 damage and fills ep/hp to full on cast.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2085009283

A breaker would look something like this. Over 120 speed plus chrono drive is enough to get multiple hits in before a boss can act. That, two break master quartz and sledgehammer if your bp situation is fine is enough to break any boss very quickly

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2085024378

These are from the start of chapter 4 and I've been avoiding random encounters almost entirely so no grinding required.

[Tiasmoon]

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Yes, been playing nightmare mode blind since CS1. If I didn't I would have a warped perception of difficulty like some of you guys.

They have a warped perception because they are like you: they played the games too much. It is stranger that you dont feel the same way, since you also played the other games on nightmare.

It makes sense for someone that is new to play CS games, or playing them on nightmare to feel that the game isnt easy on nightmare. But it doesnt make much sense for someone that has recently played the previous 2 games also on nightmare.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Yes Delay is OP in till it doesn't work (see the C fight in CS1).

Delay works on almost every fight in the game. Not working on one or two fights doesnt change that fact. Also, C is weak to stun. One of the fights gives you Angelica who can conveniently inflict that same status effect. His adds are still vulnerable to Delay as well.

You must have really had a hard time with that game if a single fight not having Delay being broken was a problem for you.

Besides, Delay is only mentioned right now because it is the CS1/2 Equivalent to Orders. These are far from the only way to break the game.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Are you using abilities with high break value? Um yeah... Common sense tells me to Use crafts with a A or S rank on break.

Common sense tells me that if someone understands the mechanics in play, they wont have an issue breaking on any fight where they have access to Sledgehammer. So its a valid question to ask.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Even a buffed up Aurelia S-Craft can only bring the break bar down to like 60%. Of course I'm boosting stats with quarts and arts.

You dont use S-crafts to break unless you need to get a turn in. S-crafts have way too much delay to just randomly use like that. You'll note that they have low break value. The only reason they still deal a lot of break damage is because their damage is also high, so therefor their break damage is comparatively high too.

However an attack that isnt S-craft but has high break value is much better.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Are you using +break quartz? Are you using Skuld? Considering that Juna and Ash comes with it automatically, Yeah I'm using it. Are you suggesting everybody use skuld? If you do then you rule out other helpful quartz to saved my ass alot more than break.

You can use it on 2 people. Which you should, altho you can still break fine with it on just one person. If other quartz saved your ass more then break, why are you here complaining about being unable to break?

By the time Ash joins you should have had it on 2 people for ages, if only to level it faster.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Like most of your post you just going to assume I'm not playing the game right

Ofcourse I do. You have played CS1&2 on nightmare and beat it, as you say yourself. That means you have no excuse for failing on CS3 nightmare. CS3's nightmare difficulty is not easy...but that only applies to people new to either the difficulty level or the CS games.

For someone experienced with the precious games nightmare difficulties it is easy. (after prologue/chapter 1)

I dont know why you are so in denial that you arent playing the game right. If anything you should be glad, since thats better then not being skilled enough. You are just doing the wrong things. Thats easier to fix then learning how to play, isnit it?

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

even though I'm doing literally everything you posted.

That's what they all say. And few actually do.

You dont become a great player by being in denial of your mistakes and flaws..

Now if you had complaints about the difficulty in the prologue or chapter 1 I might have actually agreed with you. Because at those points in the game your characters arent very strong, and you dont have many orders yet. (or other ways to break the game) It is for this reason that most players consider the first few bosses by far the hardest ones.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

You say stack spd but doing so will decrease damage

As we used to say back in the MMO raiding scene: ''you deal no damage when your dead''

If the boss kills you, then the damage you deal is pointless, because you wont deal any more damage. In RPGs its very important that you learn to balance stats. In this game, having more speed is more valuable then getting a minor-medium damage boost. Since more turns is also more damage, as well as a better ability to react to incoming damage, or even prevent it entirely.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

then you say increase damage but doing so will decrease spd. Make up your mind.

You have a lot of slots. Are you really so simple minded that you cant just decide to increase both speed AND damage?

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

I did both and Rean (My fastest character) with spirit unification is still getting out sped by bosses.

If you are talking about the very first tune: sometimes bosses get guaranteed first turn. At other times its randomish. However for the rest of the fight if the boss gets too many turns, that means your speed is low. If speed is a problem for you, then gear towards it. That's simple RPG stats balancing.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Ash (my heaviest hitter) with a gladiators belt have to spend multiple turns before finally breaking the boss

...why are you trying to break a boss with a single character? You have 4 characters: use all of them. And use something like Rush, that does massive break damage.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

(if he doesn't get killed or get a fatal status effect). Some other post mentioned evergreens and abyss shadows. Making those will burn up your U-materials not to mention it is no grail locket when it comes to status effects.

Status effects are rarely a problem. The biggest status debuffs are delay, vanish and OK. Which interestingly enough, the Abyss Shadows prevents. Go figure. It eats up U-mats? Yeah. But U-mats are plenty in this game. They arent rare like in the previous games.
That is because you need loads of U-mats to get the better Quartz. If you need more, go fishing or kill monsters.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

Kurt has the highest Evasion in the party at 45%. He's also one of the weaker attackers in the party. Just like Fie in CS2, who I benched for the second half of the game do to the lack of damage.

I never said anything about evasion. Altho evasion builds are also one of the OP things...45% is very low for that point of the game if you arent using Insight.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

I don't understand orders? I have used all of them. I use Iron will and arts celebration for defense/healing, I use raging fire when everybody is healed up. I use sledgehammer when a boss break bar is weak. I use wind blade or arts celebration when the boss has been broken.

I didnt even understand all of their value untill I tried them for a bit. Dont be arrogant and presume you understand it all right away. With a mindset like that its easy to see how you fail to see where you are screwing up. Judging by what youve written so far I doubt you have re-evaluated your understanding of the mechanics at any point.

Arts Celebration is a poor Order. One of the weakest in the game. Divine Song is the one you want to use if you plan on using Arts. It removes the Casting time, and combined with Bell stacking you can get close to 0 delay Arts as long as it is active.

The strongest order tho, is ofcourse still Sledgehammer.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

I use sledgehammer when a boss break bar is weak.

There is your problem right there. You should use Sledgehammer as often as possible.

Originally posted by PrimeNum7:

For the speed thing, see above. The orders are not so overwhelming that it makes the game trivial. If it did then this post wouldn't exist.

They are. That overwhelming.


If you really feel that you understand the game well enough and that is not the issue at hand...

..then prove it and show us the way you equiped your characters for that fight.

[Tiasmoon]

ps: its only your pride getting in the way here. If you have that much issues with nightmare, dont have too much pride that you refuse to lower the difficulty.

Its only going to be a frustrating experience otherwise~

[Kyle G]

That is honestly the only fight I had a hard time with in the entire game. Really, the whole game needed more boss battles like the Ch. 3 end. The rest was just easily putting bosses in a break state using sledgehammer and using the strongest crafts, then before the boss recovers from their break state, use everyone's S-Crafts. The bosses don't even get a turn. Honestly the break mechanic shouldn't even exist imo. Without break I'd say this game would've been decently challenging in some areas.

[Kyle G]

Originally posted by Kuro:

CS4 is waaaay harder than CS3 btw. Your BOs are nerfed, enemies can use their BOs to cancel yours. Breaking is much MUCH difficult. Enemies also have ARCUS unity attacks and heightened combat senses. Divine Knight battles can get ridiculously difficult as well.

CS4 sounds so cool right now.