Why does this game encourage you to button mash and then punish you for button mashing?

[internethater117]

Tales series games mechanics never seem to improve from past games. I don't need eye candy and a clunky lock on system. I NEED A PRACTICE MODE FOR GODS SAKE. Multiple playable characters, laundry lists of arts, a new super or team up mechanic introduced every few missions. INSTEAD OF A TRAINING MODE WE GET USELESS TUTORIAL SCENES FOR 5 SECONDS. You can't learn the nuance of one character by the time you're fighting bosses let alone multiple characters. Early in the game blasting eye candy all over the screen is what works and so that's what you do. Next thing you know you're in the snow kingdom getting juggled by water spells and bodied by disco lights. What is this game? If I've been playing it wrong why was it working for 12 hours? Is this difficulty spike to get people to pay to win???? The second lord fight feels like you are supposed to be strategic but with a bunch of idiot ai partners that seems impossible. So how have you guys been playing the game? Do you constantly switch between characters in battle? Is one character best for specific battles? Do you grind up and overpower the enemy like old school jrpgs? Do make a ton of elemental resistance accessories to survive all that annoying crap flying all over the screen? Did you use dlc resources? What level were you at when you beat the second lord? I'm going to check some gameplay on youtube and depending on what is considered the "right" way to play this game I might continue or be done with it.

[Simon]

Because this game PUNISHES you for button mashing, thats why. It is a different combat rhythm compared to previous tales.

This game took a few elements from Code Vein (a souls-like), since it is made by the same team of devs. Although Tales of Arise is not a souls-like, but you do need to manage your resource and should not spam attacks mindlessly since enemies almost dont stagger. You should dodge when you need to. But if you run out of AG, just use a boost attack and it will recharge some AG. Alphen's boost attack is most useful as it will down enemies for a short while.

You could always adjust the difficulty whenever you want. There is an arena later in the town at Elde Menancia, where you can train. You dont need to switch characters, but trying out other characters may allow you to find a playstyle that suit better for you. DLC are not needed, they are purely optional.

Accessories is the core part of this game. For second lord, you only need to equip the charm that reduces light/dark damage by -50%, since the boss mostly uses Light element attacks. Mainly only the slime in sewers and the 2nd lord is a difficulty spike in this game. The bosses later on are much more managaeble

[no1schmo]

The combat system doesn't "improve" much because, every 2-3 games, they re-do it from the ground up, to keep it fresh. It is absolutely not as fine-tuned as DMC or something, despite looking superficially similar. It's meant to be hectic and bright and just chaos everywhere. It's why I love it; I don't really want to "master" games that require exceptional reaction times, precise moves, tons of practice--I prefer just enough challenge to keep me from falling asleep. However, you CAN get better by just repeating fights; I repeated one boss several times not because I lost, but because I felt I used an unacceptable number of items for one fight. The game is pretty easy to start but throws curve-balls as you progress--but that also makes it more fun, as you get just more options, more chaos, keeping it from being too repetitive and predictable.

That said, there are some tips to share;
Dodge. Just dodge. All the time. Don't run around the field, dodge around the field. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Not only does this avoid damage, but getting that counter attack after a perfect dodge is a HUGE benefit as it almost always staggers. Some bosses have multi-part moves where you can dodge-counter-dodge-counter over and over.

Disable Rinwell's close-range moves, they will just get her killed

Try to match what elemental moves you allow the AI to use based on your enemies--don't let Rinwell use light moves against that particular boss, for example. Also, using elemental-boosting weapons can definitely help, so long as you're not taking a huge stat hit to do it. So when you get to the earth area, wind weapons boosting wind moves will be helpeful, even if there's a small stat penalty.

As said, accessories that cut elemental damage are great for a surprisingly large part of the game. Don't fret too much about accessories, however, until later in the game; just get whatever blocks the relevant element and, hopefully, boosts some useful stat.

Set the AI to be a little more defensive in boss fights--it's a shame they reduced the AI options for this title

Let Shionne heal; her AI is good at it

When you get the rest of the party members, don't use them for a while--one is iffy at best and the other is only good once leveled. Sad, I know, especially since they are pretty cool

Boost boost boost. In fights where you have a chance to use the "correct" boost, like Law's armor-breaking on armored enemies, go ahead and do that, but on other fights, it's still free damage and may stagger enemies, so use the heck out of them

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

I feel sorry for your lack of ability. This game doesnt encourage button mashing (lolwut), nor do the past games. Heck, this game even has move decay after 3-4 of the same move so...

Its just that the boss fights dont encourage combo-ing.

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by Black Lamb, Shrimp for Shark:

I feel sorry for your lack of ability. This game doesnt encourage button mashing (lolwut), nor do the past games. Heck, this game even has move decay after 3-4 of the same move so...

Its just that the boss fights dont encourage combo-ing.

Eh, it sort of does early, because you don't really have anything else to do; you lack alot of the stuff you can later unlock and have few artes as well, so I certainly played the start of the game as whack-whack-whack, knock into air with arte, whack-whack-whack, slam to the ground with arte, over and over.

[PocketYoda]

Originally posted by Simon:

Because this game PUNISHES you for button mashing, thats why. It is a different combat rhythm compared to previous tales.

This game took a few elements from Code Vein (a souls-like), since it is made by the same team of devs. Although Tales of Arise is not a souls-like, but you do need to manage your resource and should not spam attacks mindlessly since enemies almost dont stagger. You should dodge when you need to. But if you run out of AG, just use a boost attack and it will recharge some AG. Alphen's boost attack is most useful as it will down enemies for a short while.

You could always adjust the difficulty whenever you want. There is an arena later in the town at Elde Menancia, where you can train. You dont need to switch characters, but trying out other characters may allow you to find a playstyle that suit better for you. DLC are not needed, they are purely optional.

Accessories is the core part of this game. For second lord, you only need to equip the charm that reduces light/dark damage by -50%, since the boss mostly uses Light element attacks. Mainly only the slime in sewers and the 2nd lord is a difficulty spike in this game. The bosses later on are much more managaeble

I thought tales games were turn based like Final Fantasy? when did they become twitch based trash?

[internethater117]

Eh, at least I got a few serious answers. I learned what I needed to know from the first five minutes of a couple fifteen minutes youtube videos. Apparently the second lord is well known as an early game difficulty spike. The video itself made some jokes about it and at least a few comments put him as one of the two WORST fights in the game. apparently mechanics that open up later make fights like him a lot easier. I still think it is very bad game design when a game hasn't taught its core mechanics (combat) well even after 12+ hours of gameplay. I was looking for a training mode the soon after you could switch between characters for the first time. How are you supposed to know who you would rather play as. Early game fodder monsters are so brain dead they die before you can really practice anything. Juggling and stunning enemies was so easy it seemed like a core mechanic yet if what I hear is true most bosses in the game are massive damage sponges that can't be stunned or juggled. It feels like this game would have been better with multiplayer. Everybody says your party is just dumb and there's nothing that can be done about it.

[Tyrone Biggums]

Originally posted by internethater117:

Tales series games mechanics never seem to improve from past games. I don't need eye candy and a clunky lock on system. I NEED A PRACTICE MODE FOR GODS SAKE. Multiple playable characters, laundry lists of arts, a new super or team up mechanic introduced every few missions. INSTEAD OF A TRAINING MODE WE GET USELESS TUTORIAL SCENES FOR 5 SECONDS. You can't learn the nuance of one character by the time you're fighting bosses let alone multiple characters. Early in the game blasting eye candy all over the screen is what works and so that's what you do. Next thing you know you're in the snow kingdom getting juggled by water spells and bodied by disco lights. What is this game? If I've been playing it wrong why was it working for 12 hours? Is this difficulty spike to get people to pay to win???? The second lord fight feels like you are supposed to be strategic but with a bunch of idiot ai partners that seems impossible. So how have you guys been playing the game? Do you constantly switch between characters in battle? Is one character best for specific battles? Do you grind up and overpower the enemy like old school jrpgs? Do make a ton of elemental resistance accessories to survive all that annoying crap flying all over the screen? Did you use dlc resources? What level were you at when you beat the second lord? I'm going to check some gameplay on youtube and depending on what is considered the "right" way to play this game I might continue or be done with it.

u have to break the enemies guard thats all your not really mashing and if you are at least be prepared to dodge

[Washing Machine]

Ganabelt is kinda solved by just equipping the "light damage -50%" on everyone.

On Hard you can't even stop his ultimate spell, you have to just be able to tank it.

[Simon]

Originally posted by DanteYoda:

I thought tales games were turn based like Final Fantasy? when did they become twitch based trash?

No, the Tales series WERE NEVER a turn based rpg series. It has always been an Action rpg series ever since their first game Tales of Phantasia in 1995. It is basically simplified version of fighting games but turn into an rpg.

[PocketYoda]

Originally posted by Simon:

Originally posted by DanteYoda:

I thought tales games were turn based like Final Fantasy? when did they become twitch based trash?

No, the Tales series WERE NEVER a turn based rpg series. It has always been an Action rpg series ever since their first game Tales of Phantasia in 1995. It is basically simplified version of fighting games but turn into an rpg.

Got it ok yeah my mistake.

[Kaldaien]

Paragraphs please :) That was painful to read.

[no1schmo]

Originally posted by internethater117:

Eh, at least I got a few serious answers. I learned what I needed to know from the first five minutes of a couple fifteen minutes youtube videos. Apparently the second lord is well known as an early game difficulty spike. The video itself made some jokes about it and at least a few comments put him as one of the two WORST fights in the game. apparently mechanics that open up later make fights like him a lot easier. I still think it is very bad game design when a game hasn't taught its core mechanics (combat) well even after 12+ hours of gameplay. I was looking for a training mode the soon after you could switch between characters for the first time. How are you supposed to know who you would rather play as. Early game fodder monsters are so brain dead they die before you can really practice anything. Juggling and stunning enemies was so easy it seemed like a core mechanic yet if what I hear is true most bosses in the game are massive damage sponges that can't be stunned or juggled. It feels like this game would have been better with multiplayer. Everybody says your party is just dumb and there's nothing that can be done about it.

Define "core" mechanics. Because Tales games have often had this aspect where more and more and more stuff unlocks over time, to drip-feed it to you, so you don't get overwhelmed in the first 12 hours with a zillion things to remember. And it keeps the gaming from being too repetitive. I don't understand how you're finding current-level enemies so wussy you can't even practice a new character on them while also finding the boss of the same area a sticking point.

And most bosses CAN be stunned, so whatever you're reading is just wrong--many have a weak point you can break, counter-edges sometimes do, using the correct boost will, and Alphen's boost usually will, as well as many of the fights have a pre-programmed stun mid-fight specifically to give you breathing room. What you can't do is just run up to most bosses and stun-lock them, or knock them down whenever you feel like. This is true in most, if not every, Tales game, and it should be--how lame would a "boss" fight be if you could easily just waltz up and slap it to the floor at will?

Yeah, it's an imperfect game, virtually everyone agrees with that, but you are mostly just whining. "Why doesn't the game let me do all the things right away? Also, why does the game have so many things to do that I can't remember and learn them all?"

[internethater117]

Originally posted by no1schmo:

Originally posted by internethater117:

Eh, at least I got a few serious answers. I learned what I needed to know from the first five minutes of a couple fifteen minutes youtube videos. Apparently the second lord is well known as an early game difficulty spike. The video itself made some jokes about it and at least a few comments put him as one of the two WORST fights in the game. apparently mechanics that open up later make fights like him a lot easier. I still think it is very bad game design when a game hasn't taught its core mechanics (combat) well even after 12+ hours of gameplay. I was looking for a training mode the soon after you could switch between characters for the first time. How are you supposed to know who you would rather play as. Early game fodder monsters are so brain dead they die before you can really practice anything. Juggling and stunning enemies was so easy it seemed like a core mechanic yet if what I hear is true most bosses in the game are massive damage sponges that can't be stunned or juggled. It feels like this game would have been better with multiplayer. Everybody says your party is just dumb and there's nothing that can be done about it.

Define "core" mechanics. Because Tales games have often had this aspect where more and more and more stuff unlocks over time, to drip-feed it to you, so you don't get overwhelmed in the first 12 hours with a zillion things to remember. And it keeps the gaming from being too repetitive. I don't understand how you're finding current-level enemies so wussy you can't even practice a new character on them while also finding the boss of the same area a sticking point.

And most bosses CAN be stunned, so whatever you're reading is just wrong--many have a weak point you can break, counter-edges sometimes do, using the correct boost will, and Alphen's boost usually will, as well as many of the fights have a pre-programmed stun mid-fight specifically to give you breathing room. What you can't do is just run up to most bosses and stun-lock them, or knock them down whenever you feel like. This is true in most, if not every, Tales game, and it should be--how lame would a "boss" fight be if you could easily just waltz up and slap it to the floor at will?

Yeah, it's an imperfect game, virtually everyone agrees with that, but you are mostly just whining. "Why doesn't the game let me do all the things right away? Also, why does the game have so many things to do that I can't remember and learn them all?"

I knew one of these guys was going to show up. Why hasn't this thread just died already? The discussion had a very short time frame of relevance by the very questions it was asking. First time players, first playthrough, early game mechanics and early game balancing. The one guy who is useless here is supergamer on his fifth playthrough that wants to debate about "core" mechanics. Are you seriously waving your phd around HERE. What did you get owned in debates with guys that have 300 hours on this game and decided to try your luck at the kids table? I have never unsubscribed to a discussion before but I don't need any advice anymore and nobody ever wants to talk to a Stan.

[Washing Machine]

To be on topic tho, I think the game's only practice mode is the "reduce all damage taken and dealt to 1"-artifact, but you don't get that until like halfway into the game.

[Algester]

reduce all damage taken is basically showcase artifact IIRC because everyone will only receive 1 dmg so once you master "totally not CC" you can do some crazy combos

personally AG is no different from EG (Tales of Hearts), CC (Tales of Destiny remake, Tales of Phantasia... remake?, Tales of Code Geass)