Voice-actors treatment issue! - Update -

[Melsberry]

UPDATE:

Here's a new update on the situation. I have been contacted by the developers both here and on twitter that they have sent an e-mail out to all of the voice-actors to elaborate on the situation and address their concerns. I also changed the title because I admit it looked very angry which admittedly, I was. However, now that communication has been established again between the voice-actors and developers to hash everything out, I want to make it clear what I am trying to do here.

I want this game and developer to succeed and I think if they take the constructive bits out of this thread to heart, they will, especially because of how well they treat their community and how hard they work on this game. I can tell they REALLY care. As a voice-actor who has worked with numerous indie-developers, I understand how hard it can be and that they are on a budget and I understand it's a learning curve. All I'm asking is they take some of that respect and apply it to their voice-actors too. I did not make this thread with malicious intent, I made it because judging from what the voice-actors said about their communication, this was really the only way for them to be heard and I think it's important to spread awareness. The reason I am speaking on behalf of them is BECAUSE I am not involved with the project and the voice-actors WANT to be part of this project and we can lose our parts and potential pay-checks just by mentioning our concerns, it has happened several times before. I am not familiar with this developer but I am explaining how most indie voice-actors feel when it comes to speaking up on issues in general, regardless of who they work for.

All in all, I appreciate the development team for responding to this thread fairly quickly and addressing the voice-actor's concerns via e-mail shortly afterwards. I hope this communication continues so everyone remains on the same page.

I hope everyone continues to enjoy the game. This thread can be locked now!


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Hello.

Seeing as it's nearly impossible to get a proper response from the development team via e-mail or twitter, I'm bringing this issue straight to their forums because you, the consumers, also deserve to know how mistreated the voice-actors who worked on this game were and still are as they plan on holding more auditions as they introduce more characters. I will try to keep this brief but informative on why their treatment of indie voice-actors is unacceptable.

https://www.globalvoiceacademy.com/gvaa-rate-guide/ <-- Please look at this rate guide so you can be aware of how much a voice-actor is SUPPOSED to be paid when working on a video-game such as this. What a lot of indie voice-actors do when an hourly rate is not practical or agreeable for an indie company(which is understandable) is an x-amount per line, but even then, this company has completely underpaid their voice-actors and their business practices have left MUCH to be desired. They'll treat their voice team like garbage but put on a different face with you all, which is just disgusting and unacceptable.

The complaints I have received about this company and their treatment of their voice-actors are:

- Originally, they didn't intend on paying voice-actors at all until a big fuss was brought on about it and rightly so, because they're charging everyone $15 for the game and are clearly having good success!

- Not paying on time and paying a ridiculously low amount for a lot of work (for example, being paid only $50 for 100+ lines of voiced dialogue if not more, even if you did x per line and went low, such as $2 per line, you would still be getting at least $200.)

- Changing deadline of auditions spontaneously which they have done once before and have been warned NOT TO DO on the website they post their casting calls. This is a huge inconvenience for voice-actors and it is just common knowledge this is a bad thing to do in the voice-over industry. ->
http://voiceacting.boards.net/thread/2853/time-portia-extra-steam-switch?fbclid=IwAR2vXwcSLkqhFzIBMzM4suBa530UojaeKx6TtRVKzo1lnNpPF51XNue_4aQ&page=2

- Not being responsive with voice-actor's e-mails.

- Voice-actors turning in lines well before set deadline and still to present day, not receiving their money many months later.

- Being vague and shady about how much work was involved until voice-actor was hired and practically 'baited' into doing it all then getting low pay for it.

- Recasting characters without informing voice-actors who were already chosen for those characters.

- Instead of paying their voice-actors accordingly with the money they've earned from this game so far, they're using the money to go to cons which only adds emphasis that they don't care about their voice-actors.

- They had a very successful Kickstarter but for SOME REASON can't afford to pay their voice-actors a reasonable amount and also ON TIME!? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1757963851/my-time-at-portia-an-enchanting-sandbox-simulation

-They made $146,697 AND MORE from sales for this game, but they can only pay their voice-actors $50-$100 each. Really?

- So I continue to get complaints that voice-actors were paid their initial $50 for the first lines they sent, but now that they've recently submitted 400+ lines, SUPPOSEDLY they're going to get paid but only AFTER the game has been released officially without being told how much. UNACCEPTABLE.

- The fact I have to bring this to the steam forums is pretty ridiculous too.

I understand most of you really enjoy the game and I too, was interested in purchasing the game for a while, but after I discovered how wrongly treated many of my voice-acting friends were while working on this game, I cannot support this game until they start treating their voice-actors better. Even as I type this, more and more complaints are coming to me so I will update soon. I hope you all understand why I am bringing this to light. If you put time, energy, and sweat into something, you expect to be treated justly and fairly, and PAID accordingly. Voice-actors do this professionally as a career and they can't do anything with your lousy pay of $25-$50.

If I manage to get the attention of the developers, you have made a really nice product and a good portion of that is thanks to the talented and dedicated voice-actors who helped bring the beloved characters in it to life. Many indie developers who haven't had as much success as your game have still managed to pay and treat their voice-team correctly. So why can't you?

[Ovarku]

It is a shame because this is a product that anyone would like as part of their portfolio starting out, but yes, if you intend to profit from the product with everyone's effort, including the voice actors, do the principled thing.

[Melsberry]

Originally posted by Ovarku:

It is a shame because this is a product that anyone would like as part of their portfolio starting out, but yes, if you intend to profit from the product with everyone's effort, including the voice actors, do the principled thing.

Exactly. It's only what's right. All I can do is hope they respond and they actually do what's right.

[Vibin' Liz (Go touch grass.)]

This is news to me.

[cal_ka]

Ouch, if this is true, it's disheartening to hear. This game has gotten plenty of sales so the least they could do is treat their VAs fairly. From what I hear, voice actors in general are chronically taken advantage of :(

[Melsberry]

Originally posted by dire:

Ouch, if this is true, it's disheartening to hear. This game has gotten plenty of sales so the least they could do is treat their VAs fairly. From what I hear, voice actors in general are chronically taken advantage of :(

There is no doubt about it that it is true. You are also correct in voice-actors being underappreciated and undervalued. This is part of the reason why. Companies, for some odd reason, think voice-acting should be a free or cheap asset to a game, when it's actually the opposite. The voice-over community is probably one of the kindest and most supportive communities out there and I am so very tired of seeing them getting burned over and over. I love voice-actors because they add a magic to a game that nothing else really can, especially if done well, it also isn't an easy job!

[PSColdFire]

Thank you so much! I was just about to send auditions for this...
I've also reblogged your Tweet: https://t.co/pQCMeMUVLb

[Melsberry]

Originally posted by PSColdFire:

Thank you so much! I was just about to send auditions for this...
I've also reblogged your Tweet: https://t.co/pQCMeMUVLb

You dodged a bullet. It is absolutely not worth the hassle.

[Melsberry]

So I continue to get complaints that voice-actors were paid their initial $50 for the first lines they sent, but now that they've recently submitted 400+ lines, SUPPOSEDLY they're going to get paid but only AFTER the game has released officially. UNACCEPTABLE.

[ScottShi1984]

I checked their post on Voice Acting Board. They made their deal clearly, paying after officially release, the price being $50~$100 and so on. But you agreed with that and chose it. Besides they offer you a chance to display your voice and I heard they offered you guys a free steam code. Basically you just want to tear up the contract, ask for more money.

[Melsberry]

Originally posted by me-world1235711:

I checked their post on Voice Acting Board. They made their deal clearly, paying after officially release, the price being $50~$100 and so on. But you agreed with that and chose it. Besides they offer you a chance to display your voice and I heard they offered you guys a free steam code. Basically you just want to tear up the contract, ask for more money.

No where on the thread did they specify when exactly they were going to release payment and they also did not specify how many lines or what the workload was. Most of the voice-actors I spoke to were originally hired to do 6 or so lines, depending on the role, which is fair. However, they did not know they were going to be doing 100+ more later down the road and would have to wait for their money if they get it at all which contradicts what they originally did. They started off pretty good, paying most actors who was cast their money right after their lines were submitted, however, they did not mention or tell the actors they were going to do 100+ more lines of dialogue and after the actors submitted those 100+ lines, they did not pay them after the lines were submitted like they previously had which is very poor business practice. That is not what these voice-actors agreed to.

Furthermore, people getting their voice displayed doesn't pay bills and rarely do people look up who did the voice of who. The steam code doesn't mean anything to a voice-actor who isn't interested in this type of game. If anyone is changing the contract, it is the developers. You're disregarding the other things they did that is simply poor business practice and unfair treatment of their workers.

And you're right, the voice actors do want more money because they did more work. That only makes sense. I also want to point out that there was no contracts made with the voice-actors and the developers.

[zede05]

This is an indie game, we made clear on that when we posted the game looking for voice over actors and actresses. We stressed we can't pay much. We stressed we'll only pay $50-$100 with more lines coming but we don't know how many as we're a work in progress. We said once we released the game we'll retroactively pay everyone more for their work reasonably and we will, we have never failed to pay people for their work (this can be verified). Everyone agreed to this at the start or else they wouldn't have joined.

I don't understand what you're trying to get at, the voice actors for Portia are great, but the board we posted this on was for indies that can't pay much, which is us, we really don't have much money to pay for it at the moment. We're pretty much trying to stretch every dime to make this game better as it is. That's why we always said we'll pay more at the end, if the game makes more money, everyone gets paid more, which is fair to everyone.

We're a Chinese studio, so handling English emails is a slow process, with priority on fan emails, so replies might be slower to the rest. But we reply to everything unless that person screwed up.

Also, we as developers make $4 off every copy, that's it (this is the average, as some areas in the world are charged less than the dollar price).

I'm sorry if some actors and actresses feel this way, and we'll look into the miscommunication and ways to remedy it.

[Melsberry]

Originally posted by zede05:

This is an indie game, we made clear on that when we posted the game looking for voice over actors and actresses. We stressed we can't pay much. We stressed we'll only pay $50-$100 with more lines coming but we don't know how many as we're a work in progress. We said once we released the game we'll retroactively pay everyone more for their work reasonably as we don't know the final line count and we will, we have never failed to pay people for their work (this can be verified). Everyone agreed to this at the start or else they wouldn't have joined.

I don't understand what you're trying to get at, the voice actors for Portia are great, but the board we posted this on was for indies that can't pay much, which is us, we really don't have much money to pay for it at the moment. We're pretty much trying to stretch every dime to make this game better as it is. That's why we always said we'll pay more at the end, if the game makes more money, everyone gets paid more, which is fair to everyone.

We're a Chinese studio, so handling English emails is a slow process, with priority on fan emails, so replies might be slower to the rest. But we reply to everything unless that person screwed up.

Also, we as developers make $4 off every copy, that's it.

I don't think the actors had an issue with the original workload and I don't think they had any qualms about doing more lines. The real issue lies with the rest of the list I see you're disregarding. There was no contract, so all the actors have to go by is what you originally did. They submitted the first batch of lines and received their money right afterwards which is good. However, then you asked them to do many more lines and I have proof in an e-mail from one of the voice-actors that said you were going to pay them after they finished voicing their lines which you did not do. You changed your minds and decided to pay voice-actors at a different, unspecific time which is a big no-no because many of the voice-actors are professional and rely on this money to pay bills and are accustomed to being paid after their lines have been submitted.

You had a very successful kickstarter and made no inclusion of giving more funds to the voice-actors in the game even though you are clearly aware that $50-$100 is chump change in this industry. Every other indie-developer who actually respects their voice-actors and wishes to pay them fairly at least mentions them and makes it a stretch-goal to properly pay their voice-actors, especially seeing as they've done more lines. What you're telling me right now is that you can't pay them for the additional work they did at this time. If you can't pay, don't ask them to do more lines till you can, it's simply courteous. They probably would've been more understanding if you elaborated on this fact and was simply transparent with them instead of tricking them into doing more work for no money. It is poor business practice to try and pay voice-actors from sales, especially when the work has already been done and submittied to you. It is just not reliable.

I have been told by multiple voice-actors that your communication, to be blunt, sucks. I now see why. Fan-mail should not be your priority, it should be voice-actors, the people who WORK for you. The people who do this professionally and need that money to LIVE. Clearly you do not reply to everything as many other voice-actors say otherwise. I suggest getting your priorities straightened out.

[zede05]

How are we tricking them? I already mentioned we told everyone up front the entire deal, if people didn't understand it, then it's our fault for failing at communication, but we did communicate it. Also, I just checked, no one has 400 lines, the most we have is 350 for the main character (and yes, the main character actor/actresses will be paid the most). We have also paid out the $50-100 to everyone as agreed upon.

We're going to write an email to all the voice actors right now to make clear our position and answer any questions they may have. If they chose not to work on this title anymore, that's unfortunate. But like I said, everyone that worked on this title will be compensated fairly when the game ships, and we'll write the numbers we have in mind in the email.

Also, we sometimes get hundreds of emails a day, the people replying are doing the best they can.

[Melsberry]

Originally posted by zede05:

How are we tricking them? I already mentioned we told everyone up front the entire deal, if people didn't understand it, then it's our fault for failing at communication, but we did communicate it. Also, I just checked, no one has 400 lines, the most we have is 350 for the main character (and yes, the main character actor/actresses will be paid the most). We have also paid out the $50-100 to everyone as agreed upon.

We're going to write an email to all the voice actors right now to make clear our position and answer any questions they may have. If they chose not to work on this title anymore, that's unfortunate. But like I said, everyone that worked on this title will be compensated fairly when the game ships, and we'll write the numbers we have in mind in the email.

Also, we sometimes get hundreds of emails a day, the people replying are doing the best they can.

I think I explained how they felt they were being tricked but I'll do it again. You e-mailed multiple voice-actors and said near the end of your e-mail "we'll pay you once you finish recording all the content". This is a very vague statement and it implies that once the voice-actor is done recording ALL OF THEIR CHARACTER'S lines, they will be paid "extra". https://imgur.com/DFyu0Fv There is the screenshot of the sentence I'm referring to. This was taken out of an actor's email.

Now, I'm going to assume your team meant to say "we will pay you after all of your character's lines that will be in the entire game are 100% completely finished", but your team did not put that, so the voice-actors were forced to just assume, because once again, your team's communication is very lacking, that they were going to get x-amount of money for new batch they were given.

This isn't the only thing you have to address. Why were some voice-actors, who were cast for certain characters and turned in lines, not notified of their character being recast? That is really disrespectful to the voice-actor originally chosen. I think you should send an e-mail to those voice-actors as well explaining what happened.

You should also go address your casting call post; http://voiceacting.boards.net/thread/2853/update-time-portia-extra-vo?page=2&scrollTo=13837&fbclid=IwAR1hZnyIOGZDJ6HG8qEL1hMj0r-uKrWhZFypjh39eVC0fMEbAAVgBOrzJrA

[zede05]

I'm actually not sure who got recast, can you clarify which character? I just asked our director and she said no one got recast that she can remember.

Also, we just read through everything, seems like your anger's from a few voice actors misunderstanding us and expecting to be paid $50-100 every time we send scripts. We never said we'd do that. So again, no, we didn't try to trick anyone. That's a heavy accusation.

We will clear it up with all of our voice actors, we don't cheat people.