Feedback on "The Watcher" Fasting Card

[Ishan451]

Fasting is a cost 1 uncommon Power card that generated 2 Artifact. I would like to see this be changed to a skill instead of a power. It being a power card for other characters certainly makes sense, but i think it would add to the unique flavor of the Watcher if they actually were able to generate artifacts.

Its not that super crucial in most fights and in the fights with lots of debuffs i feel a single use power for 2 artifacts isn't really worth selecting. Artifact is not like Strength or Dexterity that requires a specific rare debuff targeting it to always be present.

I thus would propose the following:

Reduce the number of Artifacts gained to 1 and make it a skill. This way it will show up again on a shuffle and you can make use of it once more. Unlike a power where it might not even last a single turn when you are facing 3 enemies that do some minor, non critical debuff like weakness or something like that.

Alternatively, reduce the number of artifacts gained to 1 and make it an "At the start of your turn, if you don't have Artifact gain 1 artifact" power. This would also not make you impervious to debuffs but it would give you a bit more protection against them.

I think a power like this would most certainly give her a bit more unique feel and slot right in with her stances, as she would be able to ward off debuffs better than the other characters, giving her a bit more unique feel.

With the retain mechanics and such, she doesn't feel to different from the Silent who i also would usually end up have large hands due to all the card draw i would get. The silent gets to ward off debuff cards the best.. so i think she could most certainly have a power that lets her generate a layer of debuff effect more reliably.

[Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist]

Fasting seems to be the Watcher's version of Inflame, Footwork, and Defragment.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist:

Fasting seems to be the Watcher's version of Inflame, Footwork, and Defragment.

Which is why i mentioned gaining strength or dexterity. Artifact does go away rather quickly. Dexterity and Strength have to be specifically targeted to be removed, they don't just get removed as a side effect of a normal attack that conveys weakness or frail. The enemy has the use a specific reduction in strength or dexterity skill. Which is why i feel Fasting should either be a skill, so you can get it back or it should be returning after its been dispelled by a single attack that conveyed weakness or frail.

Unlike Strength, Focus or Dexterity Artifact isn't long for the world. There isn't even anything, besides your own power, that reduces Focus to my knowledge. At least i haven't encountered an enemy that gave -Focus to me.

The amount of enemies that give -Strength and Dex are usually just elites and up... and then +strength and dex being a power card is fine. You wouldn't have +Strength/Dex/Focus to be repeatable ad infinity. Artifact however gets dispelled by a single attack that has weakness as secondary effect. Starting in Act 2 if feels like every enemy will attack with at least some sort of secondary effect, which is why Fasting should be a skill and not a power... or be a power that works more like Plate, giving you 1 at the start of the turn. Groups of enemies will still chew through your artifact shield and elites usually do two negative effects, so only the first would be caught by it and you'd still be hit by the 2nd.

Artifact should be more like Block, in my opinion. It doesn't boost your abilities, it just prevents a "damage".

[miraika]

When you say "Artifact isn't long for this world", I think you're looking at it in slightly the wrong way. If you get to prevent a permanent status effect, then that artifact had a lasting impact on the game even though the artifact itself is gone. If it prevents you from losing 2 strength, then it has essentially gained you 2 strength.

But yes, it is disappointing when you permanently lose an artifact to prevent an effect that would only last 1 or 2 turns (and might not even matter in the first place). In that way, I would say Artifact is more like Plated Armor than Block. It comes with the potential for a lot of value, but sometimes it just does nothing.

On that note, I'd be interested to see a version of artifact where effects that last a specific number of turns only "use up" the artifact for (about) that many turns. So if an artifact prevented you from getting 2 vulnerable, you would get 1 artifact back in 2 or 3 turns. That would make artifact feel more like a persistent buff.

(On the other hand, this change would make enemies with artifact soooo annoying...)

[Ishan451]

You don't have to change the way Artifact works if you just make the card from a power into a skill. That way it gets shuffled back into the pile and you can use it again, once you draw it.

[Gentlest Giant]

To be honest, artifact is so super powerful that even having it in the card pool -at all- is a great perk to have. Defect has 1 artifact on an exhaust for example, which previously was an exclusive premium card.
2-3 artifact on fasting, by contrast, is HUGE.

Re-usable artifact charges could easily get broken good, especially on a class that has another card that grants temporary dexterity. That combo is potentially broken good already.
Hell, having access to 3 artifact on a card for one energy is super good already. xD

In short, I can't see this happen.

[Ishan451]

Not based on my experience. In my experience it gets eaten by weakness and frail before it blocks anything useful.

And potential "combination" with other colored decks is also rather pointless, as that is a one in a million possibility of actually coming together. That is not what it should be balanced for.

[Gentlest Giant]

Blocking frail IS blocking something useful. Blocking frail and vulnerable is one of the main reasons I call artifact super good to begin with: those statuses are potentially deadly.
As for card combos, I would hardly call it "one in a million." I'd rather say, "if you have the components, it usually happens in most fights."
Oh, and I'm not speaking about Prismatic Shard or neutral cards or anything. Watcher has a card that can give her an amount of dexterity only limited by # of attacks played in a turn if she has a single artifact charge.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Blocking frail IS blocking something useful. Blocking frail and vulnerable is one of the main reasons I call artifact super good to begin with: those statuses are potentially deadly.

These are not potentially deadly. Its a temporary reduction at most, if you don't have a deck that can handle a frail or weak state by Act 2 you are unlikely to survive Act 3 anyway. So the point is moot. The point is that every other attack in Act2 and quite often comes with some form of negative modifier. These do not effect strength, dexterity or focus... but they do remove artifact. This means Artifact itself is gone rather quickly.

Where as Focus, Strength and Dexerity are permanent boosts conveying their bonus for longer periods of time and requiring specific actions to be reduced. Strength and Dexterity does not get dispelled with Frail and Weak.

But I already made that point.

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

As for card combos, I would hardly call it "one in a million." I'd rather say, "if you have the components, it usually happens in most fights."

Outside of a relic and the "message to yourself" ? event, there is no way to get cards from other decks other than your own and neutral. So no, it does not happen in most fights.

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Oh, and I'm not speaking about Prismatic Shard or neutral cards or anything. Watcher has a card that can give her an amount of dexterity only limited by # of attacks played in a turn if she has a single artifact charge.

I have not encountered that card, so i'll take your word for it. But if that is true... then her ability to generate artifact is even more important than a single power card that is single use and then disappears, especially with the amount of attacks that have secondary frail and weakness effects. Otherwise you will have a potentially dead card in your deck that might only apply once every blue moon. Fasting doesn't have retain... maybe if that card you have has retain it would be mitigated, but if it doesn't and i don't assume it does, then its next to useless... even more so if it makes the number of Dex gained dependent on your Artifact charges. There is no way you get to stack a lot of them.

[Gentlest Giant]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Blocking frail IS blocking something useful. Blocking frail and vulnerable is one of the main reasons I call artifact super good to begin with: those statuses are potentially deadly.

These are not potentially deadly. Its a temporary reduction at most, if you don't have a deck that can handle a frail or weak state by Act 2 you are unlikely to survive Act 3 anyway. So the point is moot.

I...uh, I am baffled. This is so far away from reality as I perceive it. I guess you do not play at higher ascensions? Frail and vulnerable are among the more common ways to die. This makes artifact a really great thing to have.

And again, I'm not in any way, shape or form speaking about prismatic shard. Defect and Watcher has in-house synergies with the artifact they can generate themselves. If I have core surge+Biased Cog, I expect that to take effect most fights. If I have Fasting+that card I can't name, I expect that to go off most fights. (This one is harder to use though as it requires you to play fasting -after- most attacks if you want to get more than 3 permanent dex.) Getting just 1-3 dexterity from it is as easy as the defect thing though.

Edit: It's actually a relic that may or may not be Watcher exclusive called Yang, which provides 1 temporary dexterity for each attack played. While that makes it harder to obtain, it does not change my arguments or the value of artifact.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Frail and vulnerable are among the more common ways to die. This makes artifact a really great thing to have.

Not based on my experience. But as we just have agreed to have come to an impass due to vastly different opinions on the importance of frail and weakness, there isn't really much reason to carry on, and instead let someone else decide it.

[Dusk_Army]

I'll admit, I find it strange that Fasting is a power, but only because Panacea and Core Surge are exhausting skill/attack cards. I have the same opinion about Wraith Form to some extent for similar reasons: the benefit is less clearly ongoing than that of other powers.

That said, there's probably a reason that it isn't a skill that exhausts instead. Perhaps they just didn't want people using Hidden Technique to search their deck for it?

[Burdpal]

I just find Fasting really underwhelming. I wish the Watcher had a new buff that enhanced stances' potency, similar to how the Defect has focus to enhance the affects of orbs. Artifact is not synergetic with the debuffs that the Watcher normally earns, like from Blasphemy or Tantrum, so it feels very out of element. It just seems like a card thrown in the pool just for the sake of it, void of any thought.