Improving Orrery and Tiny House

[Berik Xardas]

I only took those two boss relics in situations they were the lesser evil.
I think I'm not the only one who thinks these 2 are too weak (especially Tiny House - Orrery might be not that bad with Question Card and/or N'loth's Gift).
As for Orrery: Insted of 5 normal "packs", how about cutting it down to 3 "packs", however only 1 is normal. The second can be a colorless "pack", and the third a rare/boss "pack".
Tiny House: Maybe a little bit more gold, and/or replacing the potion with a common relic, and/or replacing the normal card "pack" with a rare pack or a colorless pack.

[SoM]

I always think Tiny House should give you an extra Rest Site, or even one after each Boss battle (so it can be two).

Orrery with Colorless or even cross-class cards would be interesting too.

[Berik Xardas]

Yeah, to me, colorless packs should be rare, but making them available only though the Sensory Stone event is too rare.

[Berik Xardas]

So the Tiny House was improved with the newest update - it now gives 20 gold more.
It's a little bit better, but still not worth to be a boss relic IMHO.

[gustavokruegeraa]

Trying to see Tiny House's worth in gold approximately from my point of view:

Gain 50 gold
+Gain a random potion - value is about 50 gold (less value from being random but more value from possibly being uncommon or rare)
+Gain 5 max hp - value is about 100 (strawberry is a gain 7 max hp common relic which is about 150 and the 5 max hp potion costs about 100)
+Choose a card to add to deck - value is about 30 gold (can be good but low impact)
+Upgrade a random card - value about 30 gold (useful but not as much as if you chose it)

Total value:260

I'd consider a boss relic to be worth it if it's at least as good as a rare relic (300 gold) so it's not that far from being reasonable but definitely not great. If you could choose the card to upgrade that could very likely be worth 70 meaning it'd have an acceptable average value of 300.

[gustavokruegeraa]

Orrerry is definitely not worth a boss relic. Doing the same approximations as I did for tiny house would mean its worth is:
30 gold x 5 = 150 gold (each card choice is worth 30 gold on average)

If it gave upgraded cards it'd be an much better option in the early game, then it'd have added average value of:
30 gold x 5 = 150 gold (not a random upgrade but does nothing for card options you skip)

It'd have an average total value of 300 meaning it'd be fine.

[gustavokruegeraa]

I'll also try to estimate astrolabe's worth since it's a similar relic.

Card transformation = card removal + add a random card to deck + upgrade a random card (a bit worse than upgrading a random card possibly since it won't upgrade the wincons already in your deck but cannot upgrade strike/defend which is probably a plus so let's call it even)

Card removal is worth an average of 100 gold each (considering increasing merchant price and difference in relevance for different decks).

Upgrading random cards is worth 30 gold each.

Adding random cards to deck is worth -30 gold (It's definitely bad but hard to say how much)

Total worth = 100x3 + 30×3 - 30×3
= 300 gold

An okay average value.

[gustavokruegeraa]

As for empty cage it nets you two card removal which is worth 100 in average meaning it's only worth a total of 200 gold. HOWEVER card removal is worth much more in a small deck (which is also a deck that removes a lot, meaning the merchant option gets expensive) and because of that I'd say empty cage is completely fine. Really helpful in getting that infinite combo by the way.

[gustavokruegeraa]

Please note that all these post are my subjective view on the worth of different aspects of the game.
Also note that boss relics don't necessarily need to all be equally good in a roguelike (though I WOULD like it if they were).

[Aquillion]

Originally posted by SoM:

I always think Tiny House should give you an extra Rest Site, or even one after each Boss battle (so it can be two).

That would change the concept of the relic, though, which is "a bunch of small immediate bonuses."

I think it would be better to buff those bonuses until it's at least sometimes worth it. It clearly could be done - there's a point where they'd be so high as to be overpowered, so it's just a matter of fiddling with the numbers. Some people will always hate it for being uninteresting or whatever, but that's a different issue.

[Berik Xardas]

Yeah, I'm necroing my own thread - but I got an itch since I read this:

Originally posted by Weekly Patch 46: Adrenaline:

Additionally, two new Colorless Card-based blessings were added as these cards weren't seeing much play as they only appeared in shops and certain events.

And that's also one of the reasons why I started this thread. There are 2 blessings with colorless cards - I welcome that. But I don't think that's gonna have such a big impact of colorless cards being used more. My Suggestions on their own also would not have such a big impact, but it will be a nice addendum. Now you might get colorless cards in the beginning from neow. With improved Orrery and Tiny House, you might have a chance after defeating a boss as well. My Suggestions for now would be:

Orrery: Gives 5 card packs in total
1 normal pack
1 normal pack where every card is upgraded
1 rare card pack (as seen from bosses)
1 colorless card pack (as seen from sensory stone event)
1 colorless card pack (either where every card is upgraded, or every card is rare)

Tiny House: Normal card pack replaced with a colorless one.